Fiat Vans to be Ram vans: Ducato, Doblo, Iveco Daily
Fiat Professional was the new name for Fiat’s light commercial vehicle sales operation starting in 2007. Industry analysts who have followed Fiat’s turnaround under Sergio Marchionne’s guidance claim that separating passenger cars and commercial vehicles was one of his first moves.
Introduction: Ducato or Daily?
When I researched this article, I saw numerous statements that claimed the van would definitely be the Ducato. I traced these statements to Fleet Owner. They did not say where they got the information. Truck Trend ran with that and since it is the same editors as Motor Trend, everybody accepts that as solid evidence.
I saw the updates on the next generation Doblo. Now there is pretty good evidence the Doblo will be Ram's small import van, but a lot of people are sure the van will come from Turkey and report that also. However, the van is built in Brazil as well. The Brazilian version had larger engines until GM cut them off.
In the business plan there is an 1800 cc Fiat Fam B motor on the chart of technology exchanges (page 84 of the Presentation Wrap Up PDF). Either that motor or the World Engine in a Brazilian built vehicle makes more sense than what the professional analysts are saying.
In the Ram brand presentation of the business plan, the Fiat based vans are listed as being in the LCV segment; I believe that stands for Light Commercial Vehicle. In Fiat's press release on the next generation Doblo, they mentioned a chassis-cab version. Because of the “chicken tax,” a heavy tarrif on imported trucks, any cargo van will have to be a knockdown kit like the Mercedes Sprinters. Chassis-cabs and passenger vans are exempt from the tax.
They could easily do a Doblo-based pickup truck. Fiat definitely wants to spread development costs as far as possible. If I was going to do a small lifestyle truck to replace the existing Dakota, I would import some Doblo chassis-cabs for bed installation along with van knockdown kits. We could end up with two sizes, Doblo and Ducato. [Editor’s note: Dakota appears to be going onto a modified minivan chassis.]
The Fiat Doblo
The Doblo van is the business plan’s small imported van expected come to North America for the Ram brand. The Doblo was introduced by Fiat in 2001 and has since received a restyling in 2005 and a makeover for 2011. The van was confirmed by Chrysler Canada for U.S. and Canadian sale on September 9, 2011.
Editor’s note: for 2011, the Fiat Doblo has a 108 inch standard wheelbase. Minivan models have fold and flip seats. The EuroDoblo has four engines: a 95 bhp gasoline (petrol) and three low-noise diesels with 90 to 135 hp. A Natural Power dual fuel (gas and methane) is to be added along with another Dualogic diesel. Start & Stop is optional; it shuts down the engine while standing idle.
The rear suspension is bi-link, calibrated for each model. Stability control, ABS, and hill-holder are standard.
Doblo Cargo has sliding side doors and an inner length up to 2.2 meters, width between wheel arches of 1.23 meters, and volume from 3.4 to 4.2 cubic meters (120-148 cubic feet). Combined gas mileage is around 4.8 liters / 100 km with the smallest diesel – around 49 mpg. The range includes short and long wheelbase vans with high roof versions.
European Doblo vans are produced in Turkey, while the Latin American and South African market versions come from Brazil. It is also produced under license in Russia, China, and Vietnam for other markets.
The base Doblo van has a wheelbase of 101.8 inches and an overall length of 168 inches. There are Doblo versions available in some areas which offer extended lengths and raised roofs. This van has a front transversely mounted engine with front wheel drive, like Chrysler minivans. Fifteen inch wheels and tires are the standard offering in many markets. The Doblo’s suspension uses McPherson struts in the front, while the rear features a solid axle with leaf springs, the same setup found on early generation Chrysler minivans.
Doblos sold throughout the world are equipped with the Fiat motors and transmissions which are common to each regional market’s Fiat passenger cars.
South Africa’s version has a 1400 cc Fiat motor while Latin American Doblo’s received GM’s Brazilian built 1800 cc four. (After the Fiat-Chrysler marriage was announced, supplies of this motor were cut off by GM; they could be replaced with the World Engine.) Other engines for different countries include Fiat-built diesels of up to 1.9 liters. It remains to be seen what engines will be used in US bound Doblos, assuming the Doblo is the import van.
In the 2009 business plan, an electric version of the imported small van is shown to arrive around the end of 2011. Writing about this electric powered version of the small van, Alisa Priddle of the Detroit News wrote, "Marchionne let it slip during the question period that the van will likely be the Fiat Doblo." There is presently an all electric drive version offered in select markets, which is a conversion by a company called Micro-Vett.
The move was made official in March 2011 and again in September 2011: Doblo will be coming to the United States as a Ram. While the current engines are very small for the US market, adding the 2.4 liter Chrysler four-cylinder may be prohibitively expensive or impossible depending on space and manufacturing issues.
| Doblo Cargo Van Standard Roof, Wheelbase |
1990 Dodge Caravan Base 5-passenger |
Dodge Caravan Cargo Van |
|
|---|---|---|---|
| Wheelbase | 102 inches | 112 inches | 121 inches |
| Length | 167.5 inches | 176 inches | 203 inches |
| Width | 67.8 inches | 72 inches | 77 inches |
| Height | 72 inches | 65 inches | 69 inches |
| Gross weight | 4,233 lb | 6,050 lb | |
| Max load | 1,609 lb | 1,500 lb |
The Fiat Ducato
The Ducato van, like the Doblo and Dodge minivan, has a transverse front engine with front wheel drive. It is sold in Mexico, but not in Canada or the United States. Also like the original Plymouth Voyager and the Doblo, the Ducato has McPherson strut front suspension and and a solid beam axle suspended by leaf springs in the rear. There is an option of air suspension offered in most markets. The Mexican market Ducato has 225/75-16 tires for the cargo and passenger vans. Some lighter cab and chassis versions are also offered with 15’’ wheels.
The engines most commonly found in Fiat branded Ducatos are a 2.3 or 3.0 liter diesel four cylinders. Some countries may use a smaller diesel. There are Citroen and Peugeot versions of this van also. They may use other motors or transmissions. The Peugeot van is also sold in Mexico. In many countries where the Ducato is offered, only a six speed manual transmission is available. CNG fueled motors and automated transmissions are just now starting to show up in some markets.
The Mexican market brochure shows many variations of the Ducato. Van, passenger van, chassis-cab and chassis-cowl models are all illustrated. There are regular or crew cab versions of the chassis-cab offered. Ducato models have wheelbases of 3,000, 3450, or 4,035 mm (118, 136, or 159 inches) in length. Not all markets offer all possible variations of the different models.
| Ducato Cargo Van Standard Roof, Medium Wheelbase |
Doblo Cargo Van Standard Roof, Wheelbase |
Dodge Caravan Cargo Van |
|
|---|---|---|---|
| Wheelbase | 3.45 meters (136 inches) | 2.58 meters (101.7”) | 121 inches |
| Length | 5.4 meters (213 inches) | 4.25 meters (167.5”) | 203 inches |
| Width | 2.05 meters (80 inches) | 1.72 meters (67.8”) | 77 inches |
| Height | 2.25 meters (89 inches) | 1.8 meters (72.1”) | 69 inches |
| Gross weight | 3,550 kg (7,826 lb) | 1,920 kg (4,233 lb) | 6,050 lb |
| Max load | 1,650 kg (3,538 lb) | 730 kg (1,609 lb) | 1,500 lb |
The Iveco Daily
The Daily is not branded as a Fiat; it is an Iveco product (Iveco stands for Industrial Vehicle Company). Iveco, the heavy commercial vehicle unit of the Fiat Group, was formed in 1975 when Fiat merged the commercial vehicle operations of Fiat, Lancia, Magirus, OM, and UNIC.
The Daily was introduced in 1978 and was the first common design of the newly unified business unit. The Daily van is now in its fourth generation, currently featuring styling by Giugiaro. Some industry analysts consider the Daily a possible contender for the next Ram van, because Iveco factory literature uses the term “light commercial vehicle” in classifying some of the Daily van models.
There is some overlap of the Iveco Daily and Fiat Ducato model ranges. Like the Ducato, the Daily is offered in cargo and passenger vans, or regular and crew cab, chassis-cab models. Chassis-cowl models are not shown in factory sales brochures for the Daily. The shortest Daily wheelbase offered is 3,000 mm (118 inches) which is the same as the Fiat Ducato. Engine choices are also 2.3 and 3.0 liter four cylinder diesels. This is where the similarities of these corporate cousins ends.
The Daily is a rear wheel drive truck offering gross vehicle weights in a range from 7,055 to 15,432 pounds on the van models. The highest payload offered on a cab with chassis is 10,300 lbs. Higher GVW models feature dual rear wheels, which aren’t offered on any of the Fiat branded vans. Wheelbase lengths for vans are 3,000, 3,300, or 3950 mm (118, 130, or 155.5 inches) with cab with chassis models offering additional lengths.
The Daily offers two choices of an independent front suspension, transverse leaf springs or torsion bars. Both are double wish-bone set ups. The rear suspension also has two choices, leaf springs or an air bag suspension with a live axle.
| Iveco Daily |
Ducato Cargo Van* | Mercedes Sprinter |
1990 Dodge Ram Van 250* |
|
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wheelbase | 155.5 inches | 3.3 meters (130 inches) | 144 or 170 inches | 127 inches |
| Length | 276 inches | 6 meters (236 inches) | 233-289 inches | 197 inches (223 for MaxiVan) |
| Width | 80 inches | 2 meters (80 inches) | 70 inches | 80 inches |
| Height | 104 inches | 2.6 meters (104 inches) | 65 - 84 inches | 80 inches |
| Gross weight | 15,432 | 3,510 kg (7,738 lb) | 11,030 lb (max) | 7,700 lb |
| Max load | 9,127 | 1,350 kg (2,976 lb) | 5,770 lb | 4,245 lb |
* Ducato with standard roof, medium wheelbase. Ram Van with long wheelbase; cargo version.
Will the Ram brand’s large van be the Fiat Ducato, Iveco Daily or something else?
Another Ram Van option
(What follows is speculation, the author has no inside information)
The Large Commercial Van announced in the business plan is based on a Fiat Group platform, but it might be something different from offerings in other markets. One possibility may be the importation of the Ducato chassis for completion in North America. This would be more than a knock down kit (like the Dodge Sprinter).
An exterior and interior unique to the Ram brand would be domestically manufactured and fitted to the imported chassis. The Kokomo-built, 62TE six speed overdrive automatic transmission might be a possibility. That automatic transaxle is paired to a diesel motor with 360 Nm of torque for the export Chrysler Grand Voyager. This transmission should be able to handle the power of the Ducato’s standard 2.3 liter diesel with 320 Nm of torque. The transverse transmission is also scheduled for further improvements as stated in the business plan.
Perhaps in the conversion process gasoline motors suitable for the North American market might be adapted to the chassis. A passenger Ducato van with seats would have about the same curb weight as a Buick Enclave. The Pentastar V6 should be up to powering such a vehicle. The all wheel drive system that Chryslers minivans used to have, can easily be adopted to the Ducato chassis, though it would require “beefing up” for commercial use.
Another possibility for North America would be Iveco Daily cabs and bodies fitted to a domestic chassis and drive trains. The front and rear axles would be shared with conventional Ram trucks, perhaps along with transmissions and gasoline motors. Chrysler does have the rights to the Allison Hybrid technology that will appear on a Ram pickup next year. Perhaps even the Wrangler could share axles and drive train parts with a rear drive Ram Van. Economy of scale is very important to Fiat managers. A common set of parts could help with the Wrangler’s unique platform.
And the Winner Is...
For an all out assault on the truck market in North America some vans will need to have dual rear wheels. Many school districts require dual rear wheels for minibuses. Southern California requires CNG for municipal vehicles. This tilts the scales towards the Daily for becoming a Ram. Will it be?
Sean Kilcarr, the senior editor of Fleet Owner, said the Ducato will be the large commercial van mentioned in the Ram truck portion of Chrysler’s product plan. It may be another few years before we know for sure what the future Ram Van will be. [March 2011 update: the Ducato and Doblo were announced for the 2012 model year.]
Editorial addition: More voices have chimed in to say the choice will be the Ducato, which would not compete directly against the Sprinter, and would presumably achieve better gas mileage due to its smaller size and weight.
| 2011 Specs* |
Fiat Doblo |
1990 Caravan 5 Passenger |
Dodge Caravan |
Fiat Ducato |
Iveco Daily |
Mercedes Sprinter |
1990 Dodge MaxiVan |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Wheelbase |
101.7 | 112 | 121 | 130 | 155.5 | 144 or 170 | 127 |
| Length | 167.5 | 176 | 203 | 236 | 276 | 233 or 289 | 223 |
| Width | 67.8 | 72 | 77 | 80 | 80 | 80 | |
| Height | 72.1 | 65 | 69 | 104 | 104 | 65 to 84 | 80 |
| Gross weight** | 4,233 | 6,050 | 7,738 | 15,432 | 11,030 | 7,700 | |
| Max load | 1,609 | 1,500 | 2,976 | 9,127 | 5,770 | 4,245 |
* Doblo, Ducato: standard (middle) wheelbase and roof. Dodge models are cargo versions except 1990 Caravan. Maximum gross weight and load listed. Numbers are inches or pounds. 1990 Caravan is base model.
**Gross weight includes as much cargo as can safely be carried and should not be confused with curb weight.