Hemi Challenger Stick Shift Only? - Allpar Forums for Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Plymouth, and more

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Hemi Challenger Stick Shift Only? Challenger needs an automatic

#1 Guest_Race Hill Farms_*

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 08:54 AM

If you were a registered user, you would not be seeing this!

I just read the news item on the front page about the Challenger being a stick only and limited production, I feel the article is lacking in facts, first off they say that the car would cost to much to certify it with an automatic transmission.

What?

Chrysler already has the 6.1 Hemi with automatic certified, there would be no additional cost, however certifying the 6.1 with a manual transmission would cost Chrysler because the do not have a 6.1 Hemi with a manual transmission.

This car will be a complete failure if Chrysler thinks they can sell it as a limited edition, that means dealers will just push the price sky high and it will become nothing more then another rich persons toy.

Yes they will sell every one they make, but it will defeat the main purpose of getting an exciting car into the hands of younger buyers, Chrysler does not need another viper type limited high cost vehicle.

I truly hope that the people in charge at Chrysler are not that stupid to limit production of the car.

Build it with an automatic and manual and do not limit production, why do you think the Mustang sells so well, they don't try to make it limited.

You want to see what happens when you make a car limited? Just watch the Shelby when it is released, the Ford dealers will push the price so high that only the rich again will be able to afford one of those.

Lets all push Chrysler to do the right thing, build the Challenger and DO NOT MAKE IT A LIMITED EDITION CAR.

I plan on buying a Challenger when they come out, but if Chrysler thinks I will buy one at an inflated price just because they are making it a limited edition they are wrong, I will just buy a roush Mustang or the new Camaro when it comes out, Chrysler you have one shot at this and you better make the right choice.

I am Mopar all the way, but I refuse to let Chrysler rape me either.

#2 Tweety Bird

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:03 AM

If you were a registered user, you would not be seeing this!

I'm going to keep my head down on this one...

#3 ChallengerSRT8

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 05:28 PM

Quote

...a limited edition, that means dealers will just push the price sky high and it will become nothing more then another rich persons toy.

Yes they will sell every one they make, but it will defeat the main purpose of getting an exciting car into the hands of younger buyers, Chrysler does not need another viper type limited high cost vehicle.

Agreed 100%! BUT

What you need to consider is that DCX is trying a new �Flex-Plant� manufacturing process. Search around here for a proper explanation of the program. What folks like you and I need to do if we choose to see the glass as half full, is wish DCX success on building the limited Challengers. Then with high demand DCX builds Challengers with many other configurations. Right now it�s still all too early to get worked up.

#4 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:25 PM

...and I get grilled and chastised by people becasue I don't post...

...........that SAME THING OVER AND OVER.................................

This is a very good example of "Who is John Galt"?

#5 aeromaestro

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 10:11 PM

Bob_Sheaves, on Feb 17 2006, 09:25 PM, said:

...and I get grilled and chastised by people becasue I don't post...
...........that SAME THING OVER AND OVER.................................
This is a very good example of "Who is John Galt"?

It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes, huh?

By the way, could Galtville use a janitor? :lol:

#6 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 18 February 2006 - 01:11 AM

aeromaestro, on Feb 17 2006, 10:11 PM, said:

It's like talking to a brick wall sometimes, huh?

By the way, could Galtville use a janitor? :lol:

Naw...a brick wall has texture, heft, and finish, plus the added attraction of interesting patterns from the manufacturing and drying process. This is more like a plain, grey, thick (VERY) fog. Weightless, ephemeral, and without any solid substance.

As long as you aspire to perform at the highest level of your competence, of course. The type work is not demeaning, only those that cannot do what you do ARE demeaning.

...and of no importance.

#7 Guest_Race Hill Farms_*

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 12:55 PM

Bob_Sheaves, on Feb 18 2006, 01:11 AM, said:

Gee the last three posts in this thread contained no useful information at all, to the second poster, I can only hope that you are correct, but I think there is only a small opening here and if Chrysler does not jump on it, it will be to late.

I would love to buy one of the upcoming Shelbys, but I already know what is going to happen with that car, the Ford dealers are going to add to the sticker price, I do not pay extra for cars.

Chevy might the one in the drivers seat in this whole pony car deal, if they come out with the Camaro and price it right and build plenty of them I can see them crushing both Ford and Dodge in sales.

Dodge has the opening lets just hope they take it and run, that will put Chevy behind and I think Dodge will be able to sell the car in strong numbers, but again the Dodge dealers have to resist the temptation of adding to the sticker price.

As far as I am concerned, the manufacture prices the car with the sticker and that is in their opinion the most the car is worth, people need to start walking away from dealers who add to the sticker price, that would put a stop to this pratice once and for all.

Dealers would have no choice but to sell at reasonable prices not to exceed what the manufacture says the car is worth on the new car sticker.

#8 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 08:03 PM

Race Hill Farms, on Feb 20 2006, 12:55 PM, said:

It just doesn't conform to your wants for information. There has been many discussions on what is happening and the values involved. If you cannot use the search function and do basic research, please ask. What makes you think that anyone has to keep repeating the same thing over and over because you seem to be too lazy to look?

This post has been edited by Bob_Sheaves: 20 February 2006 - 08:03 PM

#9 Guest_Race Hill Farms_*

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 10:56 PM

Bob_Sheaves, on Feb 20 2006, 08:03 PM, said:

You are nothing more then a sad excuse of a little man.

I actually feel sorry for you.

I have yet to see anything that is more then a rumor of the Challenger getting the OK to be built.

When Dodge makes an official announcement we will all know for sure. Until then your grandstanding is nothing more then pure Bull Dung!

I must give you credit on one front, you would make an excellent poster child for birth control!

This post has been edited by Race Hill Farms: 20 February 2006 - 10:59 PM

#10 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 11:21 PM

Race Hill Farms, on Feb 20 2006, 10:56 PM, said:

Ahhh.... we have another looter on the boards......go check the facts sonny. There is more spread throughout this group of boards than you will be able to comprehend. Experience counts-something you have demonstrated you DON'T have.

....another one for the ignore file....

This post has been edited by Bob_Sheaves: 20 February 2006 - 11:21 PM

#11 Gibons

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 01:38 AM

Hey Bob im curuous about these flex plants, and being ignorant about there working and the inherint risks involved would like to know more. I've been reading the posts in the news and rumors etc and been getting little snippets about it did I miss the full blown explination. Is there a link to a site or something were I could read up on it, or a pm of an explanation I don't want to take up to much of your valuable time educating me.

This post has been edited by Gibons: 21 February 2006 - 01:39 AM

#12 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 02:06 AM

Gibons, on Feb 21 2006, 01:38 AM, said:

75 percent of the info is in the News & Rumors thread on the Challenger. The rest is sprinkled around through the Caliber and some other threads in N&R. There are about 6 pages in that one thread however. PM me after you seek that out.... :)

#13 Guest_Race Hill Farms_*

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 09:09 AM

Bob_Sheaves, on Feb 20 2006, 11:21 PM, said:

Woo Hoo, Now I won't have to worry about your pompous butt using up bandwidth with useless posts that say nothing!

Oh and here is what is posted on the front page: �As of yesterday (Feb. 9), Challenger was given a �go� by management. Model year unknown. 6.1 liter Hemi and 6-speed manual transmission only.� � �Der Spien,� a former engineer with DCX.

Notice it says a former engineer with DCX, I highly doubt that DCX is running to "Der Spien" with the production plans for future products.

So as it stands now it is still a rumor until DCX makes an official announcement.

I do think it is hopeful due to the Dodge poll that is now closed, further I don't see Chrysler limiting the Challenger to a manual only as that would severely limit the appeal of the car to a great deal of potential customers. If anything I think Chrysler was only gauging the demand for a manual transmission, the 6.1 425 HP Hemi with the automatic transmission is already certified and would be a drop in drive train for the Challenger, where as the 6.1 425 HP Hemi with a manual 6 speed transmission would have to be certified before it could be placed into the Challenger, so in FACT the cheapest solution would be to drop the automatic into the Challenger from the start and if there is enough demand to justify the cost of certification, then a 6 speed manual could be included or added. If demand was strong enough from the poll it may be an option from the get go.

Further more, if this was given a go and was that far along, I am sure Chrysler would know the year it would be released and would not have left that as an unknown. I doubt "Der Spien" is a real reliable source for the production of the Challenger.

Another thing that brings great doubt to "Der Spien" is I have read that Chrysler's current crop of future cars have a much greater influence and control on the American side then the Germen side this time around, so again it throws doubt on the source that he would be so privy to information on the Challenger a decidedly American flavor car.

We will soon see won't we!

This post has been edited by Race Hill Farms: 21 February 2006 - 09:21 AM

#14 Guest_Race Hill Farms_*

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 09:34 AM

Gibons, on Feb 21 2006, 01:38 AM, said:

The Flex plants are nothing more then the ability to manufacture more then one model of and type of vehicle on one assembly line. It is nothing new, Honda and Toyota have been using them for years.

Even Chrysler has had flex lines for years, they might not have called them that and they might not have been as "Flexible" as the current lines are, but it is not a new idea by any means.

Honda uses a flex line to make the Pilot, Ridge Line and I think one other vehicle at that plant.

How a flex plant works is they have an order to make X number of Chargers, when that run is through the next run might be for X number of 300's and then the following run would be for X number of Challengers to be built, the line would have the correct parts in line and ready to go for each run so the line does not have to be taken off line, it just keeps on moving as the correct parts are already in the Que waiting their turn on the line for which ever vehicle is being built next.

This can be done for large runs or small runs. I am sure there is even more information on how these plants work, but for the short answer that is how Honda and Toyota do it.

If I am completely wrong on this then maybe Bob will dazzle us with his knowledge of flex plants. ;)
I hope this helps

This post has been edited by Race Hill Farms: 21 February 2006 - 09:36 AM

#15 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 12:44 PM

Withdrawn comments by choice.....obviously, a lack of experience and the inability to develop independant thought by new posters means more than 30 years experience in design engineering of automobiles.

This post has been edited by Bob_Sheaves: 21 February 2006 - 12:58 PM

#16 Road Runner17

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 01:31 PM

"This can be done for large runs or small runs. I am sure there is even more information on how these plants work, but for the short answer that is how Honda and Toyota do it. "

If I'm not mistaken, teh difference here is that Chrysler can make extremely small runs, I don't recall teh exact figures, but we may be talking about making one vehicle only, all LX platform, of course.

#17 Bob_Sheaves

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 01:43 PM

Road Runner17, on Feb 21 2006, 01:31 PM, said:

.... but we may be talking about making one vehicle only, all LX platform, of course.

Which is where you are fatally incorrect. The purpose is to MIX platforms (which is not defimed as a series of parts, but as a series of hardpoints) on a ONE TO ONE schedule. Which has never been done by anyone before.

#18 Stratuscaster

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Posted 21 February 2006 - 02:22 PM

Please keep the personal attacks and bashing out of the threads. Thank you.

As noted, the idea here isn't to build Chargers on Monday, 300s on Tuesday, Magnums on Wednesday, and Challengers on Thursday.

It's to build any car with those defined hardpoints, at any time, in response to market demands.

Would it be easy to drop the 6.1/auto powertrain into "the Challenger?" Maybe. Would the hardcore folks drooling over the Challenger Concept accept that? No. They want a manual.

Now, I'm no engineer or auto industry veteran. But if they put forth they effort to create and "certify" this 6.1/6-speed drivetrain, would that not make it more feasible then for that drivetrain to appear in other vehicles and not just the Challenger? Perhaps that is a key goal for Chrysler? Seems like a good goal to me. And most of us have no clue just how long they've been working on such a project - some folks think this stuff just pops out of someone's behind and onto the market at light speed - and I'll tell you right now that it doesn't work that way.

IMHO, anyone that would rush out and buy a Ford GT500 once it becomes available because the Challenger wasn't available - 1: is silly, 2: is impatient, and 3: will have no trouble selling off or trading in that GT500 when the Challenger comes to market with the desired drivetrain.

You can rush everything to market just to be first, or you can take the time, do it right, and have more than just a "flavor of the moment" vehicle to offer.

But that's me.

#19 nothingstock

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 01:45 AM

I have relationships with two dodge dealers and both of their dealer reps said the challenger is going to be offered with a 6 speed manual or 6 speed auto. I agree that this is all supposition for now, but the dealer reps usually have some insight into the coming vehicle lines.
When the dealership manager calls me and says i need to bring in my deposit I'll know its happening for sure...
even if they dont make it it sure is nice to be excited about a dodge product for the first time in forever; I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It probably wouldnt hurt if people were to visit their local dealer and express interest in being put on a purchase list or puting a deposit down. I know from my conversations with the manager that the dealer reps do solicit feedback from the dealers regarding interest levels from time to time.

This post has been edited by nothingstock: 22 February 2006 - 01:46 AM

#20 Gibons

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Posted 22 February 2006 - 11:41 AM

I believe that soft tooling is supposed to be one of the big advantages they were moving towards of the flex plant were they don't have retool everytime another platform or vehicle is put on the line am I correct?

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