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Pop-up Headlight Problem Rate Topic: -----

#1 Guest_AlanW_*

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 10:54 AM

If you were a registered user, you would not be seeing this!

Hey everybody, long time since I've visited here!
I've got a 91 ES, and one of the headlights is not opening or closing.
It started out occasionally not working, but sometimes it would. When it decided to work, it worked just fine. Now it has gotten to where the right side light won't work at all. The left side works properly, every time.

It IS NOT the motor, I've had it out and it runs fine when power is applied to it. I even had it checked out by an alternater shop. The wires and plug running to it look OK.

Any ideas on what to check next?
Thanks
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#2 User is online   Bob ONeill 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 11:06 AM

Welcome back.

If it's not the motor or the wires then it must be the driver. There is a box in the center of the dash. If you remove the dash 'top' cover you'll see it where you would normally see a center speaker. It may be possible that this box which drives both the right and left side has a problem. I don't know what's inside this box. It would seem to me that the box should make both motors work at the same time from the same circuit but it probably doesn't. It probably has a circuit for each side. If this is the case then the right side is fouled up.

You 'may' want to pull the motors and switch them if this is possible. Then if the problem stays on the right side it must either be the driver or the signal feed or in this case the wires to the motor from the box. If it's neither the motor or the wires then it must be something inside the box.

If however there is only one driver for both the right and the left, recheck EVERY connector between the box and the motor. There may be more than one connector in the harness. If one has a bad or intermitant connection it could explain your intermitant at first then totally dead motor symptoms.
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#3 User is offline   TurboPacifica 

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Posted 18 July 2007 - 06:56 PM

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/TurboPacifica/headlightmodulelocation.jpg

Headlight module

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/TurboPacifica/headlightmodule.jpg

This post has been edited by TurboPacifica: 18 July 2007 - 07:01 PM

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#4 User is offline   NEMopar 

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 03:58 PM

The headlamp control module was in the top center of the dash only through the 1989 model year. In 1990, it was moved to a box under the dash near/on the steering column. Someone indicated that in 1991 they did away with the HCM and controlled the pop-ups via the body computer and individual relays located under the hood in the power distribution center or the interior left kick panel, but I haven't seen one personally.

Hopefully, someone with a 1991 FSM can chime in here and point you in the right direction.
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#5 User is online   Bob ONeill 

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 04:08 PM

I have a '91 FSM at home. I'll have to check to see if it includes the Daytona.

I got it for my van.
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#6 Guest_AlanW_*

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 04:24 PM

Thanks everybody! yes, the dash the "new" style, not like pictured.
I'll check for the relays that were mentioned, and maybe Bob can find something in the FSM.
I had a FSM on my older style turbo Daytona, but never bought one for this 91 3.0.

I do have an old Motors manual that covers a lot of stuff on it, but not sure if this item would be in it........but I'll check.

Just last night, I discovered I have a coolant leak coming somewhere from up under the intake plenum. It is a fine spray which looks like it is coming from a metal tube line or something up near the fuel rail. I can't see exactly where it is without taking the plenum off. I can't really fathom why a coolant line would be up there in that area, unless it something to either heat or cool the fuel rail.
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#7 User is offline   CJ Chitwood 

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Posted 21 July 2007 - 05:06 PM

If you were a registered user, you would not be seeing this!

Yeah, the '90 and '91 have the HCM clipped somewhere under the dash. IIRC, it was supposed to be alongside the steering column. It might be above the relay cluster on the left kickpanel, though. It's smallish, blackish, and IIRC had a reddish connector housing. I could be wrong -- been a few years since I've eyeballed one.
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#8 Guest_AlanW_*

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 09:40 AM

OK, found the leak and fixed it-a little "U" shaped heater by-pass hose right below the thermosat housing.

I found 3 relays for the headlight system in the power distrubution center under the hood. I switched all 3 relays around in all possible combinations and it did not change or affect the problem at all.

I guess that leaves the wiring and the HCM.
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#9 User is offline   CJ Chitwood 

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:09 PM

One relay for low beam ON/OFF
One relay for high beam ON/OFF
One relay to rule them all...



Okay, no clue what the third is. The module, however, is not mounted WITH the relays. It doesn't push-in like the relays do. IF it's mounted on the relay block as I suspect MAY be the case, it will be like a clip-on box with a harness pigtail running to it. Same if it's on the column as I suspect it actually is. Regardless, the module is not a relay. It DOES have small relays INSIDE it, but it's also a timing unit and will in no way be interchangeable with any of the relays in the distribution block.
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#10 User is offline   george w 

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 06:00 AM

Rule out the relays and the electrical issues. While the motor runs you need to replace the drive bushings in the motor's gear case. There are three plastic bushings within the main drive gear in the gear case. The bushings connect the outer portion of the gear with the inner portion that connects to the headlight mechanicals. These bushings disintegrate and the two halves of the gear begin to slip.
There will probably only be crumbs left within the gear. These bushings are the same as those used in Ford power window motors and are sold in parts stores in the "HELP" parts section and on eBay. These are quite cheap at under $ 10. a set.
You have to remove the motor and open the gear case, a simple job. Take note of any washers or shims and their location as you remove the gear case cover. Pull out the large drive gear and pull the two sections apart. You'll see three depressions in the interior, 120 degrees apart, where the busings were. Clean things up, relube and install the new bushings and you'll be good to go.
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#11 User is offline   russ93spirit 

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 09:06 PM

See also a thread above this one in this forum on the subject of headlight modules.
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#12 User is offline   plumkrzy3 

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Posted 07 November 2009 - 10:49 PM

I'm kinda confused how this got replied to in the first place, it is over 2 years old, but way to go George for trying to help out...
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