Headliner adhesive failure - Allpar Forums for Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Plymouth, and more

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Headliner adhesive failure try contact cement ?? Rate Topic:

#1 Guest_Pbody_*

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 12:20 AM

If you were a registered user, you would not be seeing this!

I have replaced the headliner 2x on the shadow now and it still has the sagging problem. I have read the article's here about replacing the headliner but I have not had such luck. I have used the correct 3M garbage and followed instructions to the T and it still falls down, even if not for a few weeks or months but it just does not last. The factory stuff lasted 11.5 yrs until the foam backing just gave out but the actual adhesive did not ever let the fabric drop at all.

the factory did not waste their time and reputation with that garbage and I have had enough of wasting my time and $$ using a product that does not last. so I ask what did C.hrysler use to bond the fabric to the board

I have been considering contact cement generously applied but before I go out and spend another 30.00 on fabric I am concerned that all the solvent in the glue will dissolve the foam backing and that if it doesnt dissolve it then it will absorb it all and not bond adequitely. but then again the spray glue is mostly solvent anyway but it does have some "body" to it so it doesnt absorb completely into the foam.

dont know anymore what to do to make it work :angry:

Any suggestions

also the board was cleaned with a stiff brush before each redo to remove any remains of old fabric/foam so I know thats not the issue, or is it <_<

#2 ShelbyDodgeImp

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:17 AM

If you wanted to go the custom interior route, heavy vynil interior material (of the proper color), small thickness plywood, and sewing the vynil to the wood old-school style would last ages

I am curious why the 3M stuff is failing for you, what are you doing to prep the surfaces?

#3 magtec

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:54 AM

why not choose fabric that doesn't have a foam backing?

#4 Mark M

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:39 AM

If you were a registered user, you would not be seeing this!

I took the roof from my sundance to an auto upholstery place. They re-covered it for 80 bucks. That may be more than you want to spend, but it was a pro job and is still good after a year.

#5 Guest_Pbody_*

Group: Guests

Posted 10 August 2007 - 11:41 AM

I prepped the board with a wire brush and vaccumed the stuff up.

it needs all the padding/backing it can get the board is in rough shape in a few spots and has been repaired but they are not as flush as the orginal surface. so the thickness helps to cover up the damage and possibly help kill some wind noise.

would really consider going with the sewn headliner, tell me more about that

the 3M stuff is ok, but it just does not last more than 6 months. First time it gets really hot it drops and it's back to square 1. the fabric is spread out and not stretched while being glued

#6 raccoon

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 12:20 PM

im doing my headliner today, Im going to be using a textured vinal, looks identical to whats in my acura.
to prep mine i used a garden hose and a copper scrub brush.

anyway not meaning to highjack, the backboard for my headliner is sagging as well. anyone know of a fix?

also, looks like mice were living above the headliner if you can believe that.

#7 raccoon

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 05:56 PM

heres mine all done. I used vinyl and it looks awesome.

http://www.88shadow.pctbay.com/sundance/headliner/headliner1.JPG
http://www.88shadow.pctbay.com/sundance/headliner/headliner2.JPG
http://www.88shadow.pctbay.com/sundance/headliner/headliner3.JPG
http://www.88shadow.pctbay.com/sundance/headliner/headliner4.JPG

#8 general0ne

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 07:00 PM

I redid my headliner for my Sundance with plain old fabric from wal-mart (it was a sort of cross-hatched black/grey pattern) about two years ago. Problem with it was... I never put it back in the car :P It's still sitting on top of my Valiant. Although, sitting for two years in a non-climate controlled garage, the fabric hasn't come loose from the backing board or anything (I used generic spray adhesive, and the fabric didn't have a foam backing). When (if) I ever get around to actually putting it back in the car, I'm planning on putting insulation between the roof and the actual headliner (haven't figured what I'm going to use yet - foam or just plain old fiberglass insulation).

On a side note - the headliner on my '61 Valiant was the old fabric type that was held in by the metal bows across the roof. It had some sort of fiber insulation above it, and was in pretty much perfect shape, other than discolored from water staoms, when I got the car in 2000. Of course, it disintegrated on touch, for being over 40 years old, but it wasn't falling down!

#9 GaryS

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 07:46 PM

You have one major problem, and that is using 3M spray adhesive. It simply will not stand up to hot weather. There are several brands and types of the proper adhesive and you can find it at upholstery suppliers and online.

That said, even the 3M stuff should have lasted longer than that. You might have let it dry too much before joining the surfaces. It should be slightly tacky when touched with your knuckle. In warm weather, you have to do small areas at a time to keep it from drying too much.

If you want to see a real mess, go with the brush-on contact cement.

#10 Mike Sa

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:05 PM

There are 2 types of the 3M adhesive. One is meant for hi temp use. I have found that you don't want to wait as long as the directions say before putting the 2 surfaces together (if the glue dries too much, it will fail early, such as you have experienced).

I was just noticing the liner in my dodge truck is startng to fail (this hot weather is a factor I'm sure). I'm not looking forward to pulling those panels to get it out of the truck.

#11 magtec

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:04 PM

GaryS, on Aug 10 2007, 07:46 PM, said:

3M does make an adhesive that it markets as headliner adhesive. i have a can, haven't used it though.

This post has been edited by magtec: 11 August 2007 - 03:17 AM

#12 Guest_Pbody_*

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:04 PM

The adhesive was specifically called out as being used for headliners. I could say the glue may have started to dry before having the fabric pressed down but it was still wet to the touch. that was the problem with the 1st go around and I made sure the glue was wet when pressing the fabric down. it is the headliner that has lasted the longest but still started to droop when it got really hot.

I like the look of vinyl but my headliner board is too far gone to try that. it has been patched and is rough around the light hole. only headliner board I found is at a yard 45 min away and getting it home without destroying it just wont happen.

what about this stuff

http://www.permatex....et_Adhesive.htm

#13 GaryS

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 07:03 AM

magtec, on Aug 10 2007, 09:04 PM, said:

3M does make an adhesive that it markets as headliner adhesive. i have a can, haven't used it though.

Don't waste your time. Get the right stuff.

#14 magtec

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 04:55 PM

GaryS, on Aug 11 2007, 07:03 AM, said:

Don't waste your time. Get the right stuff.

i bought it from a fabric store, and iirc it was the only headliner adhesive they had. i'd have to find the can again, but i'm fairly sure it says right on the can that it's for high temperature applications.

#15 Guest_Pbody_*

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:36 AM

Just finished redoing it.

gave up on the headliner foam backing fabric, they did not have the right color vinyl. so I went with Felt, not the cheap polyester felt, but the wool blended stuff. Even if it does fall down and look completely tacky. it can atleast match the visors, recovered them with the same stuff and actually looked good and seem to be holding up so far. As for the glue, I went back to the 3M stuff, applied it in "strips" working my way down the board length and quickly pressed the fabric on, taking care to make sure it didnt stretch and pucker on the curve areas.

The felt weighs almost nothing, so hopefully it will work. Only problem I see happening is the seamed area becasue the fabric was not wide enough so I ran it with a folded seam basically straight across the board between the B pillar areas. again using plenty of glue and making sure everything was bonded securely.

IF this headliner fails again, than this K car was not meant for a headliner and I will be going the spray foam and painting route. hopefully it will not come to that.

#16 bamman

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 04:45 AM

Remember that there are two types of 3M adhesives for headliners. There is one for lightweight headliners (non-foamed backed) and heavy headliners (foam backed). I think the one for heavy weight applications is 3M 8088.

It also depends at what humidity and temperature you apply the adhesive at.

#17 Guest_Pbody_*

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:53 AM

it was the General Trim Adhesive # 08088

Fabric was wool felt, weighs almost nothing

Did it in the basement so it was 70* and regular humidity

#18 NYBo

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:13 PM

Hey, raccoon, that looks great! How did you prevent the vinyl from bunching up in the corners?

#19 raccoon

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 06:11 PM

I just pulled it tight, seemed to have lots of play in the material. =)

#20 pogo

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:14 PM

The headliner in my '89 Aries is pulling away from the backing. I'm using thumbtacks to reattach it. If applied sparingly and evenly, you can't tell it's not a custom job done by a professional!

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