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2005 PT HEAD GASKET

Discussion in 'PT Cruiser' started by Fullpass, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    My first post..2005 pt cruiser head gasket..pin hole leak, maybe

    Long story short ~ will Blue Device head gasket sealer work for small head gasket leak, I realize the heads could even have small cracks without looking.

    I got this car for cheap, was told probably head gasket what their mechanic said. Car would get hot. So after searching the net, before this forum, flushed the coolant system, with some radiator cleaner, rinsed system out several times, replace thermostat, removed air bleed coated with anti seize/install pulled the grill, fan, radiator, after flushing, I removed the radiator completely power washed out the radiator fins, also power washed the trans cooler, and AC unit in front of the radiator. Fan looked to be new, Fan connection normal, not burned at all. So all good, to reassemble...bought a spill free funnel to fill radiator with Mopar 5 year coolant. Bleed system, ran motor, fan would kick on/off normal...thermostat would open....So I see small bubbles still coming up into the coolant spill free funnel..this is a funnel that attaches in place of the radiator cap. When the thermostat opens I get a bigger blurb. Not to bad...So getting air into the system, hoses look good, I do not see any external leaks. Should I pour some BlueDevil gasket sealer in the radiator..Anyone had success.
     
  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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    Get a coolant system pressure tester and diagnose it. Just because you don't see an external leak does not mean there is not one.
     
  3. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator Level III Supporter

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    Welcome to Allpar. If diagnosis points to a head gasket, I would just bite the bullet and replace the MLS head gasket following the factory service manual procedures.
    The heads on these rarely cracked, but I have seen a lot of gasket contact surface pitting from neglected coolant service that turns acidic. It generally eats away where the head gasket seal bead is supposed to seal between the combustion chamber and the water jacket. It would look like this and make your bubbles:
    DSCF0358r.jpg
    If the aluminum pitting isn't excessive, it can usually be cleaned up with a 3M Roloc bristle disc.
     
  4. pt006

    pt006 Member

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    It sounds like you did everything right. I would only use a sealer as a last resort. PT's take a while to get all the air out of the head. The bubbles you see could be the same as the ones that magically appear in a pot of boiling water. I would fill the coolant recovery tank half full of a 50/50 antifreeze solution, check the return hose for cracks and tightness, and that the radiator cap seals are in good shape. Take a drive around block to get the thermostat to open [and the engine to rev to say 3000 rpm]. Stop the engine and let it cool down. The coolant level in the recovery tank should drop down. If it does, refill the tank half way and go for another drive. When the cooling system is working properly, and you remove the radiator cap of a cold engine, the coolant should be full to the top. ------ good luck------
     
  5. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Thanks for the replies, will get a pressure tester, but first, maybe...as what pt006 had mentioned...and was also thinking...when I had first put the spill free funnel on the radiator, filled radiator with coolant, the coolant had raised up in the funnel held coolant...then funnel just started to drain, couldn't see where, radiator was already full and didn't go any lower..just the coolant in the funnel lowered, except, the coolant was draining down the side of timing cover, right side of the engine onto the floor..I also thought it could be a leaky over flow hose, then it just stopped leaking...going to check/replace the overflow hose, replace radiator cap, have the car titled no plate, maybe get 30 day plate & insurance. The car holds temp/half up on the gauge, but I understand if the coolant flows out of the radiator into the recover bottle it might not flow back into the engine..and would eventually get low on coolant and overheat again. Had also thought what pt006 said about bubble magically appearing, the system wasn't under pressure without a radiator cap when the spill free funnel was on...So I could see bubbles forming with out a cap on..I will keep you posted..new cap, new overflow hose, new hose clamps on overflow line...there was only one clamp on overflow hose up by radiator neck...no clamp on recover bottle end.

    When I use the air bleed..should the motor be running...or just loosen when engine is cold, let air bleed out, then coolant, and tighten.
     
  6. chuzz

    chuzz Active Member

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    What psi is the cap you purchased? I have an 18 on my GT.
     
  7. dana44

    dana44 Well-Known Member Ad-Free Member

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    Sounds like a carbon tracked head gasket if the bubbles keep coming. What happens is the compression pushes exhaust out the head gasket surface but fluid can't enter the cylinder, yet, but it eventually will because the fluid in the engine gets displaced by the cylinder pressure and eventually will leak into the cylinder. You caught it in time to prevent actual damage. Agree it is time to replace the gasket before real damage is done. The emergency stuff to the radiator to stop a leak is good for an emergency and emergency only, it is not a permanent fix under any circumstances.
     
    ImperialCrown likes this.
  8. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Chuzz...my cap is 16 psi, (another 2 psi would prevent the coolant from boiling another 60 degrees..found that out) went out today and bought a new one...16 psi stock, along with a new overflow hose...I replaced the overflow hose with a 6 bar rubber fuel line used for a fuel injector rail..a firmer rubber hose...had to soak it in hot water to install over the overflow tank inlet and neck on the radiator. This is what I had found on the overflow hose...collapsed/pinched...the hose is routed along the inside upper right fender..just past the strut is a plastic bracket to support the overflow hose...then the hose turns from alone the fender to the engine firewall...dang at the hose support/the hose bends/turns along the firewall...overtime/heat must have collapsed the hose right at the hose support...maybe enough of a restriction/pinch that inhibited the coolant from moving back into the radiator fast enough...maybe just part of the problem...also had put a pressure tester on the system...it did leak down from 16 psi to 13 psi in an hour and a half...but I did see...while the pressure tester was installed and pumped up...just a bit of coolant leaking at the thermostat gasket base ...10mm socket was able to add another 1/8 turn to each bolt. So I fired the Cruiser up..with coolant at the add mark in the overflow tank, temp came up on the gauge, fan on, thermostat opened, coolant cam up in the tank some...everything up to temp so added more coolant to over flow tank to full hot mark...ran car for about an hour...didn't see any bubbles coming up in overflow tank with the new radiator cap on...fingers crossed, I hope the system coolant will lower in the overflow tank as the engine cools and goes back into the radiator. I did find this out from reading/searching on the net...a water pump creates sucktion, lowers the system pressure, and can cause bubbles in the coolant with the cap off. ( coolant can boil at the pump with cap off ). All said and down will have to wait until Sunday 1/22/2017 to see if this had cured the overheat problem...pinched overflow hose/slight leak at thermostat base...previous owner had thermostat replaced and coolant...the old coolant was green...maybe that was the start of the cars overheating...then again who knows. And remember, I previously put a radiator cleaner in/flushed. power washed the radiator, trans cooler, AC...and filled with the 5 year Mopar. Dana44 hope its not the head...thanks for the input...will find out tom.
     
  9. dana44

    dana44 Well-Known Member Ad-Free Member

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    I hope so, too. I myself have found the PT setup to be really good about being able to purge itself with little or no issues, so yeah, bubbles do make me a little weary about seeing them. When cold, smell the overflow smell, then after driving it and warming things up, smell the overflow again. If it smells like gas or exhaust, continue to be concerned.
     
  10. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Dana 44,
    Oh...concerned, yes sir..you bet...When I first filled the radiator with the spill free funnel and running engine..yep had put the nose over the funnel as while standing over the front end with hood open...just a semi/noxious coolant smell, no gas fumes that I could detect; however, on that note..NAPA does have a kit for I think /heard of...for 50 bucks that can do just that...detect gas/exhaust in the coolant by turning a different color if present, purple or something. Will plate and put some insurance on the car...do some local 10 mile driving or less...watch temp...seems to be steady as a rock...coolant level stays at full hot mark when running...

    Ok 3:30 am went out in the garage and checked cars coolant level in overflow tank...was at or just above full hot mark when at temp...now that engine has cooled, the coolant level in the overflow tank is now maybe a 1/4 inch below the full hot mark...dono if that is the normal fluctuation of coolant expanding and contracting in a PT or not...seems like it should of contracted more, but then again didn't expand that much...ANY ONE CAN CHIME N on how much they see their coolant level expand and contract in the overflow tank...Ha just what I do every day too..

    I did do this...I put an after market radiator cap on...It was the lockable type..lift a lever on cap, put lever down, keeps you from accidentally removing the cap...but also the lockable lever cap helped bleed the overflow coolant line...How you say..when the lever is up on the cap, but mounted on the radiator neck...The lever in the up position compresses the inner cap spring, raises the lower rubber seat of the cap and, allows coolant from the radiator to flow out the radiator neck down the over flow line into tank, by squeezing the upper coolant hose when engine is off. squeezed the upper hose several times to draw the coolant from the tank and back into the radiator until I could not here any more air in the overflow line and upper hose of radiator

    I was told this from another PT owner with over heat problems...should buy Mopar Cap...after market caps not of good quality fitment...at least the after market lever type cap bleed the overflow line...was worth it...I will see how it runs...go from there...50/50 optimistic. The previous owner was very meticulous on maintenance, but kind of frugal, non Chrysler garage worked on the car...from what I can see..the coolant and thermostat was changed as preventive M. but when I loosened the bleed bolt...that was pretty much frozen shut...I don't think they opened the bleed off bolt on neck, left trapped air...boiled over...Time will tell..

    I do listen, net set on anyone thing as the problem, I appreciate all the ideas, and follow up on all leads as much as possible...I'm learning.
     
  11. pt006

    pt006 Member

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    A few things, the tank hose fitting and the other fitting are made from plastic. So be careful with the 'clamps'. I use the mini [1/8" wide] plastic cable ties, if necessary.

    The hot/cold bleeding cycle can be done without driving the car. A hot upper radiator hose or the rad. fan starting would indicate that the thermostat has opened. When it does, the air that is trapped in the top of the cyl. head will circulate or be pushed by the water pump out of the head and into the chamber above the thermostat/under the rad. cap. The engine has to be revved at this time. Now the chamber is full of air, and then when the engine is shut off and cools off, the hot air shrinks, creates a vacuum, and sucks the coolant from the tank back into the chamber. This repeats as long as there is air in the head and coolant in the tank. When the system is full and all else is good, the coolant tank level will rise as the engine heats up and will return to the old position as it cools.

    You may have self bled some of the air out of the head by squeezing the radiator hose after the thermostat opened but before the rad. cap built up pressure [sealed]. Hummmmm?
     
  12. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator Level III Supporter

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    The radiator pressure cap is also a 'vacuum cap' when the engine cools. It is that lightly-sprung center poppet valve in the center of the sealing rubber ring that allows coolant from the reservoir tank back into the engine.
    I have had this poppet seal poorly from 'crumbs' and other debris that floats around in the coolant. Fibrous gasket material and stop-leak debris floats to the top of the filler neck and gets trapped under this valve where it seals against the rubber and doesn't let the siphon-effect to take place under heating and cooling cycles. Sometimes you can skim the debris off the top of the coolant and blow the cap off with air and fix the problem:
    radiator-cap.jpg
    Stant makes OEM radiator and gas caps. I have seen both 16# and 18# pressure caps called for in catalog listings. The heater may work better with a higher pressure cap, but other than that I don't think that the selection is too critical.
     
  13. chuzz

    chuzz Active Member

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    Fullpass, if problems continue, let me know. I have a friend that's an ASE certified master mechanic and also a PT owner. He's very picky when it comes to his vehicles. If need be, maybe he'll agree to chat with you about your PT. He stays pretty busy and it's usually a hit or miss trying to get in touch with him. You can PM me if you want to talk to him. I'll have to contact him and make sure it's okay to give you his information. If you decide to use a sealer, this is what he recommends to his customers, Moroso 35500 Ceramic Engine Seal. That is the ONLY one he ever uses. As a matter of fact, he uses it on every rebuild that he does as part of the warranty coverage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  14. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    ImperialCrown...thanks for the info..can say the radiator and coolant is squeaky clean, no debris floaters, but good to know, also good info on poppet valve on cap, and cap info..Pt006 thanks for the tips/offer for more help..oh, squeezing the hose when engine was cold, stat closed, coolant just flowed back and forth between overflow tank and chamber above thermostat and upper radiator hose across engine to upper radiator (plastic tube & hose) Can only do this with the lever type cap, cap twisted on, lever up..the lever in the up position..compress the spring..shortens..lifts bottom seal off neck above thermostat...but stat is close (cold engine) with the lever up/seal off bottom of neck, the upper radiator hose passage is open to flow to the coolant tank.
     
  15. Gerry G

    Gerry G Member

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    Has the motor ever overheated it the extent that is gotten over the 3/4 even touching the red? If so, you may have a warped head that only removal and machining can take care of. These motors are pretty tough but do not take well to overheating. Since you are the second owner, I suspect it had overheated for the first owner and you will need to pull the head to do a proper repair.

    For me it came to spend $1700 to do the timing belt, water pump, etc. on an '02 and also pull the head to get it done right. Did not know where I could get a comparable car for $1700 and had it done. That was 3 years ago and have not regretted keeping the car.
     
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