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Dart, 200 will stay out...

Discussion in 'Mopar News and Rumors' started by Dave Z, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. DarkSky

    DarkSky Fully Charged Level III Supporter

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    I don't know if it was Sergio's pipe dream for Fiat to succeed in America as much as it was a requirement for the merger. Or at least I think I remember seeing something about that.
     
  2. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave Staff Member Supporter

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    73Duster, nobody is arguing against you. We know federalizing and safety testing is expensive.

    We know Fiat is losing money. However, the cars are federalized. The money has been spent. Should they stop selling even though each sale helps pay them back?

    And what if fuel prices shoot up suddenly for whatever reason?

    Selling Fiats in the USA was not a condition for the merger, it was the “pipe dream,” conceived when fuel prices were still rising and Mini was “the car to beat.”
     
    MoparJoe, TripleT and DarkSky like this.
  3. DarkSky

    DarkSky Fully Charged Level III Supporter

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    Thanks for the clarification on that. I was under the impression that something was preventing Fiat from leaving the US.
     
  4. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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    Other than the last sentence 200 or Dart could be substituted for Fiat.
    And the factory shuffle is an excuse, one that would be overcome with flexible manufacturing. But it's too late now.
     
  5. 73PlymouthDuster

    73PlymouthDuster Member

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    That's the thing -- each sale isn't paying them back if the brand is losing a ton of money each year (which it is). The money the Fiat brand is bleeding is taking its toll of new product development for Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge (namely the profitable brands). We keep losing products that were selling 90,000-100,000 (Dart/200) in annual sales with no replacements (and the money for product development is being bled to keep the Fiat brand on life support).

    Fiat needs to go in the USA so FCA can focus on the viable brands. Chrysler should get future small cars -- because they have the vastly superior dealer network to sell much better volume than Fiat. It is time to stop kicking the Fiat can down the road.

    Rebadge/restyle the Fiata as a Dodge Demon. Kill the 500L outright. Give the 500 and 500X (if they need to be sold in the USA which is debatable) retro front clips and call them Chrysler Airflows. Boom, done. Toyota did the same consolidation with the failed Scion brand. Stop wasting the marketing money and development resources on a failed brand. Focus on the better dealer network, improve quality and give the starved Chrysler brand some new product already. Simple, cheap, quick and focused. Someone should retract Sergio's business degree -- because he is freaking clueless. He has no clear business plan, he is just treading water in a sea of failure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  6. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1 Level 2 Supporter

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    Ok, let's try this again. You want FCA to flex out Cherokee production (which is popular, sells a lot, and sells at high margin) for Dart and 200 production (which isn't that popular, doesn't sell very much, and sells at low to no margin at best)?

    Flexible manufacturing only helps when you have excess manufacturing capacity. Which FCA doesn't.
     
    Dave Z, Morty and TripleT like this.
  7. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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    FCA will have excess Belvidere capacity. Belvidere's past production has exceeded Cherokee's sales. Given the natural rates for Dart and 200 it would not be so great that it had to slow Cherokee production. Besides, we are seeing a pretty substantial slowdown in Cherokee sales (be it from the relatively old product compared to the competition or internal or external sales lost to other vehicles). The figures don't support Cherokee utilizing 100% of Belvidere capacity.
    Long term, this would have been a much better solution than trashing and discontinuing the Dart and 200.
    Allegedly, a Chrysler vehicle is coming out of Belvidere too, so there must be excess capacity there.

    Could you imagine how silly it would have been in the late 1980s if they'd have discontinued cars to only build minivans? At the time, the minivans were a faster growing market than CUVs are right now.
     
  8. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1 Level 2 Supporter

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    Not silly at all. I can't remember anything they made in that era except for the minivans and the Jeeps.

    And maybe FCA will have excess Belvedere capacity. But with the plant shuffle going on right now, I don't think they really have any excess capacity to speak of at the moment.
     
    TripleT likes this.
  9. flffddy

    flffddy Member

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    Chrysler isn't a luxury brand, it's a premium brand, or it was, and now it's a mainstream brand. But then you get advertisements like this that sure make it sound like Chrysler is something aspirational rather than a mainstream vehicle.

    [​IMG]
     
    wvutuba, jerseyjoe, somber and 2 others like this.
  10. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Mainstream equals no margin.... they aspire for Chrysler to make margin per unit..... Yes they are aspiring more for Chrysler absolutely.
     
  11. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Fiat are in the process of being rolled into CDJR dealers..... beat the dead horse... how many times have they admitted that the Boutique launch was and error. But it pales in the investment in the 200/Dart not only that development cost but the money spent at Sterling Heights. There is no either or both were mistakes made, mistakes are made. Those without sin may cast the first stone...... but dropping Fiat at this point and still making 200/Darts is doubling down on the mistakes not correcting them.
     
    ScramFan and npaladin2000 like this.
  12. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass... Staff Member Supporter

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    Neither the Encore or Envision are assembled in the US.
     
  13. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Well then the doubles my point then.... ;)

    I just knew where a bunch of the parts are sourced
     
  14. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass... Staff Member Supporter

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    Ford pulls the same thing - one can get the "Platinum" or "Titanium" trims on a Focus or Edge (or anything, I think - which begs the question "why bother with Lincoln then?") - but does anyone aspire to own a Ford over a Lincoln?

    Even Chevy offers high-end trims that smack right into what one gets in a Buick or Cadillac (or GMC.)

    "Chrysler. Aspirational. Affordable." You're welcome, FCA marketing department. ;)
     
    james.mooney. and Mike V. like this.
  15. Robert Johnson

    Robert Johnson Member

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    But Ford is now giving things to Lincoln that one cant get in a Ford. The Bridge of Weir leather, a few Lincoln exclusive engines, Black Label trims that are miles above any avail on a Ford. If Ford was not serious about Lincoln they would not be doing things like that. Lincoln may still fail, but Ford is expending a ton of money on it to make it work. My buddy just bought a Continental with the TT 3.0 V6 Jade Green/Jade Gray. He just finished up his lease on his 2013 CTS that fell apart around him. He got the bazillion way adjustable seats and the Revel sound system and they are both pretty incredible. A stunning car.
     
    jerseyjoe likes this.
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