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Dart, 200 will stay out...

Discussion in 'Mopar News and Rumors' started by Dave Z, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Taking about the part ;) ... is it not even assembled here?
     
  2. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Would not have to be, the rear suspension is less expensive. It would only be the sourced steel that would account for a safety difference but as you have seen the Renegade and Cherokee are so close one would be hard pressed to tell the difference
     
  3. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave Staff Member Supporter

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    I was referring to performance on safety tests ... not ability to avoid crashes ...
     
  4. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1 Level 2 Supporter

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    Hard to even make that comparison since they're different safety tests anyway. But making changes to the chassis would be sone significant engineering, so they probably just designed it to pass both sets of safety tests.
     
  5. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Its is a Dart with a different Front clip, seen them side by side in Taizhou, given the introduction of the Dodge in China is would not surprise me if the Viaggo and Ottimo go away and become Dart. Especially with Fiat not catching fire.
     
    Ian likes this.
  6. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    So why can't they assemble the Dart there and sell it here?
     
  7. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Exactly!?!?! Now Cherokees are hot there ...... but even with that argument why waste time on the Ottomo/Viaggo at all there. And they will more than willing to invest in more capacity.
     
    Ian likes this.
  8. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave Staff Member Supporter

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    We know the suspension is different, the question is what else is different?

    It is a good point, they are making Viaggios there already. Questions - what is the factory capacity, what are the differences from the US version other than suspension?
     
    jerseyjoe and Ian like this.
  9. Ian

    Ian Car Freak

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    That is what I am asking and no one seems to have an answer or ignores the question. If they make it there and there is not a whole lot of difference between the Viaggio/Ottimo and Dart, why can't they sell it here as well?
     
  10. 73PlymouthDuster

    73PlymouthDuster Member

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    If you think that selling one hundred cars a month will amortize the cost of federalizing and safety testing a foreign built vehicle for the usa whose average transaction price hovers around $20k -- then I've got a bridge to sell you. The entire Fiat brand in the USA is a massive money pit -- and anyone who tells you different is a moron or total liar (Sergio). Over half of Fiat dealers are losing money (usually 55% to 60% percent each year)......

    If the the Dart and 200 got their plug pulled this year, then the Fiat brand in the USA should have been killed probably about 3 years ago. It is really time to be honest.... Sergio's pipe dream for Fiat in the USA is doomed to fail. Nobody will buy shoddy small cars (Fiat) here, when the Japanese brands build reliable small cars for roughly the same price. It's over -- The market shift for crossovers and truck sales have sealed the fate for the Fiat brand and Sergio is just an idiot still in denial about it.


    FCA has a new plan to save Fiat. Can it work?

    Just 45% of Fiat dealers are profitable, and they're angry about it

    All Fiats Are Failing in America, Even the 500X Crossover
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 3:04 PM
  11. DarkSky

    DarkSky Fully Charged Level 2 Supporter

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    I don't know if it was Sergio's pipe dream for Fiat to succeed in America as much as it was a requirement for the merger. Or at least I think I remember seeing something about that.
     
  12. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave Staff Member Supporter

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    73Duster, nobody is arguing against you. We know federalizing and safety testing is expensive.

    We know Fiat is losing money. However, the cars are federalized. The money has been spent. Should they stop selling even though each sale helps pay them back?

    And what if fuel prices shoot up suddenly for whatever reason?

    Selling Fiats in the USA was not a condition for the merger, it was the “pipe dream,” conceived when fuel prices were still rising and Mini was “the car to beat.”
     
    MoparJoe, TripleT and DarkSky like this.
  13. DarkSky

    DarkSky Fully Charged Level 2 Supporter

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    Thanks for the clarification on that. I was under the impression that something was preventing Fiat from leaving the US.
     
  14. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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    Other than the last sentence 200 or Dart could be substituted for Fiat.
    And the factory shuffle is an excuse, one that would be overcome with flexible manufacturing. But it's too late now.
     
    Erik Latranyi, UN4GTBL and Ian like this.
  15. 73PlymouthDuster

    73PlymouthDuster Member

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    That's the thing -- each sale isn't paying them back if the brand is losing a ton of money each year (which it is). The money the Fiat brand is bleeding is taking its toll of new product development for Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge (namely the profitable brands). We keep losing products that were selling 90,000-100,000 (Dart/200) in annual sales with no replacements (and the money for product development is being bled to keep the Fiat brand on life support).

    Fiat needs to go in the USA so FCA can focus on the viable brands. Chrysler should get future small cars -- because they have the vastly superior dealer network to sell much better volume than Fiat. It is time to stop kicking the Fiat can down the road.

    Rebadge/restyle the Fiata as a Dodge Demon. Kill the 500L outright. Give the 500 and 500X (if they need to be sold in the USA which is debatable) retro front clips and call them Chrysler Airflows. Boom, done. Toyota did the same consolidation with the failed Scion brand. Stop wasting the marketing money and development resources on a failed brand. Focus on the better dealer network, improve quality and give the starved Chrysler brand some new product already. Simple, cheap, quick and focused. Someone should retract Sergio's business degree -- because he is freaking clueless. He has no clear business plan, he is just treading water in a sea of failure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 3:28 PM
  16. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1 Level 2 Supporter

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    Ok, let's try this again. You want FCA to flex out Cherokee production (which is popular, sells a lot, and sells at high margin) for Dart and 200 production (which isn't that popular, doesn't sell very much, and sells at low to no margin at best)?

    Flexible manufacturing only helps when you have excess manufacturing capacity. Which FCA doesn't.
     
    Dave Z, Morty and TripleT like this.
  17. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather Level III Supporter

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    FCA will have excess Belvidere capacity. Belvidere's past production has exceeded Cherokee's sales. Given the natural rates for Dart and 200 it would not be so great that it had to slow Cherokee production. Besides, we are seeing a pretty substantial slowdown in Cherokee sales (be it from the relatively old product compared to the competition or internal or external sales lost to other vehicles). The figures don't support Cherokee utilizing 100% of Belvidere capacity.
    Long term, this would have been a much better solution than trashing and discontinuing the Dart and 200.
    Allegedly, a Chrysler vehicle is coming out of Belvidere too, so there must be excess capacity there.

    Could you imagine how silly it would have been in the late 1980s if they'd have discontinued cars to only build minivans? At the time, the minivans were a faster growing market than CUVs are right now.
     
  18. npaladin2000

    npaladin2000 LOAD "*",8,1 Level 2 Supporter

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    Not silly at all. I can't remember anything they made in that era except for the minivans and the Jeeps.

    And maybe FCA will have excess Belvedere capacity. But with the plant shuffle going on right now, I don't think they really have any excess capacity to speak of at the moment.
     
    TripleT likes this.
  19. flffddy

    flffddy Member

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    Chrysler isn't a luxury brand, it's a premium brand, or it was, and now it's a mainstream brand. But then you get advertisements like this that sure make it sound like Chrysler is something aspirational rather than a mainstream vehicle.

    [​IMG]
     
    wvutuba, jerseyjoe, somber and 2 others like this.
  20. TripleT

    TripleT Active Member

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    Mainstream equals no margin.... they aspire for Chrysler to make margin per unit..... Yes they are aspiring more for Chrysler absolutely.
     
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