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PART TWO ~ 2005 Pt Cruiser Will need new head gasket

Discussion in 'PT Cruiser' started by Fullpass, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Went with ODESSA Clear Water Florida...$285 shipped to...and that included free shipping of core back to them...with out cams.

    Its going to be this Thursday or next...to get the part...
     
    djsamuel likes this.
  2. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  3. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    This is from ODESSA...nice job on decking, valves cleaned up...there supposed to have a machine checks for valve stem seal leaks...so I will leave the valves alone...

    But, if you look closely...the THREE PORTS, in between the chambers, to the sides of the bottom of the exhaust valves...shapped like tear drops...found something interesting..See next Pic
     
  4. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  5. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Two of the ports completely plugged with either casting sand, or lime/coolant scale...but to me..looked like a combination...was very fine sand and powder...very hard...as you can see...took a drill bit with hand, to twist out...

    They had missed this at ODDESSA...WOULD SAY THEY COULD OF SOAKED THE HEAD IN SOMETHING TO GET THE SCALE/SAND OUT...probably the original problem/or helped some...to over heat this head...

    So much for the 5 year unlimited milage warranty from ODDESSA, but I think I solved the problem...cast was identical to original, other notes on the head, they had used a wire wheel to clean the valve cover surface...ok but even wire wheeled under the cam journals, wasn't happy about that, but think it would still work.

    I did look the cylinder head over a day or so...measuring the valve stem heights, making sure everything would bolt back up right...I'm just expecting to get another 60,000 out of the car...If it was a complete restoration project..I would take my machining to a local shop. They did the minimum, but that is what they said they would do.

    If it weren't for the plugged ports I would give them a 7 out of 10 satisfactory, still better than what I would have gotten at a repair shop, they would have just slipped a gasket N...no valve job, or cylinder head decking...Because they did over look the plugged ports..well less and not satisfactory.

    Expecting to get some work done Thursday, like clean the block head...had been busy...didnt get to that yet...will post more...hope to have the project/engine done in a week.

    Replacing:

    1. cyinder head with valve springs only ODESSA
    2. Fel-Pro head gasket set...local engine rebuilder..said a bit thicker, no returns, hold up good
    3. Fel-Pro head bolts
    4. OEM Water pump, hoses
    5. OEM timing belt, tensioner, idler
    6. new belts, AC, ALT

    PREVIOUS OWNER had installed
    1. new radiator
    2. new fan
    3. new thermostat
    4. new low speed relay

    Should be good to go...

    Car is not to bad to work on...simple If I ever found a Cherry PT convertible turbo...needing head gasket...I would restore it better, new rollers/rockers, lifters cam, new head, Cams.

    Will post more...maybe it will help the next guy
     
  6. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    I do have one Important Question!

    On a car that has a distributor, can take the distributor shaft out...and prime the motor with an adaptor and a electric drill..pump the system..
    On the PT...all the head oil galleries are empty...how say you fill them before start up...will make sure lifters have oil in them..and have assembly lube on lobes, stem tips, rollers, oil on valve stems, springs..anything else I can do...will change engine oil after initial start up...so as to have oil in most of the system.
     
  7. dana44

    dana44 Well-Known Member Ad-Free Member

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    With everything cleaned up and all that, before you install the valve cover, take a quart of your oil and just pour it over the cams and followers, that will lubricate enough until the oil fills the gallery and pressurizes fine. All the lifters (sic) should have been oiled upon installation, so they will be OK. At least that is what I have done without an issue, it is a "roller" cammed engine so they don't require special cam/lifter/follower/etc., treatment.
     
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  8. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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  9. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator Level III Supporter

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    Does the head gasket have passages for those coolant holes in the head? That used to be a difference between regular head gaskets and turbo head gaskets.
    Is the Fel-Pro a fiber gasket or multi-layer steel (MLS)? I have had to do pressed fiber gaskets over before. The MLS is a much better choice. You only want to do this job once.
     
  10. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    ImperialCrown,
    Head gasket coolant passages..looks like cylinder number Four has two extra coolant passages in gasket, cylinders 1,2,3 have just a coup small passages for coolant...So must be non turbo gasket, which would be the correct gasket for this application.

    The Fed-Pro is a (MLS) 3 layer steel, might be stainless don't know...outer layers...each side has a blue coating...Fel Pro Blue Color sealer

    I did Return/going to Return the ODDESA CYLINDER HEAD...

    I WILL TELL YOU WHY...everything looked great..deck, valves, intake/exhaust surfaces FROM ODDESA

    Problem I saw..WHY I RETURNED

    I had mentioned ODDESA HAD wired brushed the top of the head and across the cam journals, Wire Brushing had removed to much material from the cam journal...out on the ends where the end cap journal fit over the guide pins...was ..010 higher at the ends..(not wire brushed vs the center journal were the material was removed...just thought the caps would be to tight, less oil flow, and flex the cams to much... .010 is a lot of flex, premature were, I noted to the seller, everything would have been great if he/she would not have wire brushed over the head journals for the Cam...not trying to nick pick...but not trying to have the motor self destruct either. Oh..second the wire brushing had left nasty burs on inside of journals at the top edge...so that was it..going back.

    So ordered a nice heavy duty overhead spring compressor..someone had mentioned on this forum, Gum 2 + 2 cleaner, to decarbonized the cylinder head chamber ports, alone with some brass dermal wire brushes, and a bass brush for the bench grinder. Yep you guessed it, going to have my original cylinder head decked, and lap my own valves. Had bought a valve stem remover/install tool also on Amazon...Watched a lot JeffoMobile videos on youtube...Thought, I could do that...after watching the videos on youtube...actually had watched & learned a ton from that guy, just another source, like here talking with you folks.

    So currently waiting for a couple tools to start my own work from Amazon...two day shipping on Prime trial...will be here on Sunday...wow ...that is great shipping. AND & will have all the origin parts being placed back in the exact location, lifter, roller rockers, valves, head and cams will match...should of done this in the first place...thought it would save time ordering from eBay, just cost me time, and probably a self destructing engine, hopefully, I will do my best, with the original parts, and can only blame myself...if something goes wrong, but doing my best to get the job done right within reason...could build a great upper cylinder head, only to be disappointed by the lower block not holding up...Someday I will be working on a car that has greater value...and I have learned a ton on this car already.

    Will keep you posted...and pics of my cylinder head rework.
     
  11. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Oh...Imperial Crown

    The two ports I had unplugged with the drill bit...are used, and do have holes that go through the head gasket, the ones that were plugged were on an angle going through the head, maybe like a 45...but that head is going back any how, because of the burs and cam journal surfaces...to bad...the deck looked great.
     
  12. pt006

    pt006 Member

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    I don't know if this applies to your engine, but on the 2.5 L there are 3 extra cooling holes that are drilled in the head and block. 6 mm drill. They are located between the cylinders. They will plug up if the coolant isn't changed enough.

    Before you spend time on the head, bolt the camshaft back into the head without the rockers. No need for full torque on the cap bolts. If it spins easily by hand, your good to go.

    The valve spring compressor may need an adapter, as the valve spring retainers look pretty deep in the head.
     
  13. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    Pt006
    I see the cooling holes...3 are vertical drilled and an additional 3 are drilled on an angle, that look like tear drops..My original cylinder head, the one I will be doing are clear/open

    A good pic of the cooling hole, you had mentioned, if you look at the Picture of the Cylinder head from Odessa earlier in the thread, you can see the 3 holes on top between the chambers are vertically drilled and below those are some tear dropped holes, angled through the head. I think thats what your talking about. The old and new head gasket don't allow for the full tear drop shape of the angled holes, I can see why things can build behind the the gasket...really two of the three ports where plugged on the Odessa head, some scale, but some casting sand also...would have been room for improvement either from the manufacture or Fel~Pro

    Rotating Cams in Journals/without rockers...I don't see why you couldn't, All the inside cam journals and cap surfaces look great on my original cylinder head...The cam lobes on the exhaust some wear marks/nothing raised, but each lobe will be married with the original roller rocker and valve stem. I could see some wear on the lobe surfaces not at the high point, but maybe its called the mid point, from maybe valve spring float,(maybe the rockers not making constant contact with lobes, getting a little tapping effect, dulling the surface, is my guess) the surface was not as polished looking, nothing raised, just dull looking. This is an automatic, so can't be to much foot, just a 100,000 mile car, to be expected. I'm sure the original owner used regular oil/non synthetic..get what you pay for at a 100k...but the car should go on for a bit.
    41NCjhyf03L._AC_US160_.jpg

    The above pic is a OTC 4572 valve spring compressor, from amazon another member/thread had used with success...It will arrive today Sunday Feb 12...read some review...reviews stated light commercial use...but should not bend for the average use of a home mechanic...and hopefully the retaining keeper will not be stuck..only other tip I heard was, just to put some pressure on them and let them set for 15 min, to break any stuck keeper loose, and not bend the valve spring tool by over applying pressure. A little patients I guess.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  14. Fullpass

    Fullpass Member

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    I will be able to get things disassembled by Monday night...Then wait for the Gum 2+2, (half to ship ground for that stuff) won't be hear until Wednesday, to start cleaning up the head, but have other things to do...some rust on the hard lines running to the water pump and heater hoses...need to get some sanding and paint on those, avoid any other future pit falls of the system as much as possible. Pun intended..because the metal is rusting and pitting..lol
     
  15. pt006

    pt006 Member

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    The cam lobes sound normal. The cam bearing cap condition is good news. The reason for the 'cam test' is to see if the head warped due to severe overheating. Aluminum gets soft at higher temps and the outer head bolts may put a permanent warp in the head. Since the head surfaces are machined straight when new, if the cam spins freely now, it means the head hasn't warped.

    That looks like the correct spring compressor. You'll need a pair of needle nose pliers and a pencil magnet. Replace the valve seals while your there. Before you use the compressor, rap the outer edge of the spring retainers downward with a small plastic hammer or a brass/aluminum punch and hammer. This cracks them loose after years of pounding. Do them all at once. You will hear a difference in the sound they make when they break free.