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Carter carb numbers...


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12 replies to this topic

#1 charger383

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Posted February 18, 2008 at 04:16 pm

One of my goals this winter was to replace the carb on my Charger. Engine is a 1968 383ci, rebuilt by the previous owner 9,000 miles ago, mildly tuned, with Mopar electronic ignition, stock intake manifolds, stock exhaust manifolds, stock fuel pump on 3/8" fuel line. Currently the car has some rigged up single-feed Holley 650 4bbl carb. Not sure of the model. But it has an electric choke. The throttle linkage was all fabricated by the previous owner (thus "rigged up").

Of course, many many people have asked over the years "What carb should I use?" and I'm sure the answer is similar to asking "what should I name my first born child?"

That being said, here is what I want to do. I am looking for opinions.

The engine starts instantly. Doesn't idle well until the car warms up. It floods easily. The carb has no throttle idle cam, so I have to keep my foot on the gas until it warms up. This is annoying. The electric choke is working, albeit it's probably not adjusted properly. Once the car warms up, the car bogs down off the line. Badly. Once going, it pulls pretty good after that. Car runs in the 15s, but only when the float doesn't act up and/or I run out of fuel pressure. Needless to say, I want to get that POS Holley out of there and replace it with something more appropriate. I don't want anything crazy. Just something that will bring new life to my low miles, mostly stock, motor. I don't want to rebuild or even adjust that Holley 650. I don't like aftermarket Holley carbs. I just want to replace it.

My original thought was Edelbrock. Many friends have told me "bolt them on, and forget about it". OK, sounds easy enough. But I'm too much of a Mopar fanatic to get off that easy. I want to do my homework and give the Mopar/Carter carbs a chance too. I've also heard that Edelbrock carbs are not a good match for a Mopar 383. But I have no evidence to substantiate such claim.

That being said, I'd prefer a carb with an electric choke, vacuum secondaries, and no need for any intake adapter plates. I still have the "pit" in the intake for the mechanical choke (it's capped off) if necessary.

If I go with Carter, I also want it to be a 1968 carb to match the motor (and transmission).

What are the stock Mopar carb numbers that match a 1968 Dodge Charger 383 4bbl?

And if aftermarket, what carbs do you recommend (not Holley)?

I don't want to mess with springs, floats, 10 different jet adjustment screws, this, that or the other thing. I just want it to work. (And yes, I've considered fuel injection for this reason...LOL...but not seriously).


Thanks!

Edited by charger383, February 18, 2008 at 04:18 pm.


#2 68RT

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Posted February 18, 2008 at 11:29 pm

Here is a pretty good carb list.

http://www.thecarbur....com/Kdodge.htm

#3 Rodger

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Posted February 18, 2008 at 11:31 pm

Hola PA Person

I do know if the 383 is in an manual transmission C300 it had the Carter AVS #4426S. If the car was an 383 engine with the automatic the Carter AVS was #4401S. Some Auto Parts Stores may have re-built carbs offered, since this company is no longer around making this carb. I did this with my RB engine with an automatic some ten years ago since I did not like the new box prices.

The company that now makes this carb has added the electric choke feature to the older spec'd carb. They are called Eldelbrock. They do make an direct size ( CFM ) re-placement.

If you take your car to an show of any type, the other lookers or judges will not say anything negitive for using either carb.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

#4 seventycuda

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Posted February 18, 2008 at 11:33 pm

One of my goals this winter was to replace the carb on my Charger. Engine is a 1968 383ci, rebuilt by the previous owner 9,000 miles ago, mildly tuned, with Mopar electronic ignition, stock intake manifolds, stock exhaust manifolds, stock fuel pump on 3/8" fuel line. Currently the car has some rigged up single-feed Holley 650 4bbl carb. Not sure of the model. But it has an electric choke. The throttle linkage was all fabricated by the previous owner (thus "rigged up").

Of course, many many people have asked over the years "What carb should I use?" and I'm sure the answer is similar to asking "what should I name my first born child?"

That being said, here is what I want to do. I am looking for opinions.

The engine starts instantly. Doesn't idle well until the car warms up. It floods easily. The carb has no throttle idle cam, so I have to keep my foot on the gas until it warms up. This is annoying. The electric choke is working, albeit it's probably not adjusted properly. Once the car warms up, the car bogs down off the line. Badly. Once going, it pulls pretty good after that. Car runs in the 15s, but only when the float doesn't act up and/or I run out of fuel pressure. Needless to say, I want to get that POS Holley out of there and replace it with something more appropriate. I don't want anything crazy. Just something that will bring new life to my low miles, mostly stock, motor. I don't want to rebuild or even adjust that Holley 650. I don't like aftermarket Holley carbs. I just want to replace it.

My original thought was Edelbrock. Many friends have told me "bolt them on, and forget about it". OK, sounds easy enough. But I'm too much of a Mopar fanatic to get off that easy. I want to do my homework and give the Mopar/Carter carbs a chance too. I've also heard that Edelbrock carbs are not a good match for a Mopar 383. But I have no evidence to substantiate such claim.

That being said, I'd prefer a carb with an electric choke, vacuum secondaries, and no need for any intake adapter plates. I still have the "pit" in the intake for the mechanical choke (it's capped off) if necessary.

If I go with Carter, I also want it to be a 1968 carb to match the motor (and transmission).

What are the stock Mopar carb numbers that match a 1968 Dodge Charger 383 4bbl?

And if aftermarket, what carbs do you recommend (not Holley)?

I don't want to mess with springs, floats, 10 different jet adjustment screws, this, that or the other thing. I just want it to work. (And yes, I've considered fuel injection for this reason...LOL...but not seriously).


Thanks!

I've owned quite a few V8 performance cars over the last 20 years and the most reliable carb I ever owned was a Quadrajet.
Now, it's unlikely you'd consider what was primarily a GM carb (and a few factory Fords) for your Charger but if you're set on locating a 1968 Carter AVS(?) - good luck. I am almost certain that Carter has sold its carburetor rights to Edelbrock. If you can find a new Carter it was probably built a few years ago. Now I know you don't want to hear about Holleys but they are hard to beat for ultimate performance. Yes, they can be finicky at times yet I've persevered with my old 850 double pumper and it works flawlessly right now (and has for about 2 years of infrequent driving). It'll idle without a choke within about a minute or less of warm up. That story about Edelbrock carbs and 383's not being compatible is ridiculous. Keep in mind the Edelbrocks are essentially polished (and possibly improved) Carters. I would recommend the Edelbrock even though I haven't owned one and for the fact the NOS Carters, or 1968 versions for that matter, may not be easy to come by. Edelbrock released the AVS version a few years back and I believe that's what version your car came with from the factory instead of the more common AFB. I can't remember exactly the differences between the two are but the AVS may have an advantage or two. Good Luck.

#5 furiousgeorge

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Posted February 19, 2008 at 12:02 am

I've replaced the original Carter with an Edelbrock on my '66 383, and have had no problems with it in the 3 1/2 years since. I literally bolted it on, set the idle and went. Very dependable and a flawless perfromer in my opinion.

#6 charger383

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Posted February 19, 2008 at 09:31 am

I've replaced the original Carter with an Edelbrock on my '66 383, and have had no problems with it in the 3 1/2 years since. I literally bolted it on, set the idle and went. Very dependable and a flawless perfromer in my opinion.


Thanks all for the great replies.

I can keep an eye on eBay for a Carter AVS 4401. I've found many replacement parts for my Charger on eBay. Even if I can just get a core and rebuild it, that's fine.

Does anybody know the difference (in specs) between the AVS 4401 and the 4425? I know one was for a 383, and the other a 340. I don't think the 4425 will work on a 383.

I've looked for the appropriate Edelbrock, but the Thunder AVS series seem to need adapter plates for a Mopar application. Does anyone know of a direct bolt-on Edelbrock AVS model?

#7 charger383

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Posted February 19, 2008 at 09:42 am

I found this:

http://www.napaonlin...buretor - Remfd

Is this the proper carb?

#8 Rodger

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Posted February 19, 2008 at 09:22 pm

Hola Again Person

I have no Manual for the Plymouths or Dodges in 1968, sooo the only related information is that Carter AVS 4429S is for the 440's with an automatic in the Chrysler Division and the Imperial Division. The 340 did not have the "right stuff" in the eyes of the senior division's.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

#9 Rodger

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Posted February 19, 2008 at 09:40 pm

Hola Person

Just some information about the AVS series of carbs. In 1968 when MoPar startred using the AVS seriers of carbs is also the start of all 4 bbl intake manifolds using the spread bore carbs and the openining which the air cleaner housing sit on has an larger diam. The other related part of the design change was the intake manifold "runner's" are thicker and therefore the base plate for the carb is at an higher level. The two bbl intakes also started using the higher base plate version too.

When Mopar started using the Thermojets the intake stayed the same. This also went unchanged when the LA engines used the R-chester 4 bbl.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

#10 Volunteer

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Posted February 23, 2008 at 01:49 pm

Point of note is that ALL Carter AVS series used from the factory on 340's AND (HP)383's (thru '69) were the smaller 625 cfm rating while the (HP) 440 between '68 and '71 used the larger 750 cfm versions. By 1970, the (approx. 735 cfm) vac. Holleys became the performance unit on the 383's. The 440 also changed to Holley briefly with the smaller AVS as the LP carb in '72 when the T.Q. took over as the HP carb.
Mopar Action did a carb test on a 340 several years ago and got 275 hp. on the dyno with stock/OEM AVS and 315 hp. with the larger (440) AVS.
Just a suggestion to seek out the units with the corresponding 440 carb numbers for greater air-flow/power potential.

#11 charger383

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Posted March 14, 2008 at 10:53 pm

OK, here is an update on this:

NAPA no longer sells the Carter carbs that I posted the link for. In fact, the link doesn't even work anymore.
And I've had no luck finding a decent Carter locally. Online resources are also scarce.

So I decided to bite the bullet and by a Edelbrock Thunder AVS 1806 locally. This is a 650 CFM carb. Electric choke.

Now here is the big question. I'm going to bolt it on tomorrow (Saturday). I checked the bolt spacing and it's OK. But the Edelbrock seems to be a spread bore whereas the stock manifold on my Charger (cast #2806301) seems to have same-size bores (all 4 bores on the manifold is as large as the largest bore on the carb).

The Holley that was on there was a standard (same-size) bore. It sat on top of a riser plate (spacer) which lifted the carb about 3/4". This was an open-style adapter plate/riser.

The Edelbrock came with instructions that stated to use a ported adapter for Chysler QuadraJet applications. But my manifold did not come with a QJ carb from the factory, it came with a Carter AVS, right? Since it's not a QJ, I don't need the special adapter. Right?

Can I use still use the open-style spacer from the Holley (the extra height would be nice) or should I bolt the Edelbrock directly to the manifold? What is the main benefit of using a riser plate?

Also, it is important to note that the riser/adapter seems to fit the intake manifold AND the new Edelbrock quite well. I do not see any overlap of the bores and the plate, nor do I see any misalignment that would lead to a vacuum leak from the bore spacing. So I *think* everything will be fine. But thinking ain't knowin' stuff.

I'd call Edelbrock Technical Support just to be sure, but they are only available on weekdays.

I'm a fuel injection guy stuck in a carburetor world sometimes...LOL. :P

Edited by charger383, March 15, 2008 at 12:06 am.


#12 Dan R.

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Posted March 15, 2008 at 02:02 pm

I had a 72 Challenger with a mildly built 318. I tried the carter AFB, the AVS, and the Quadrajet. I would have to agree with the poster who said he had the most success with the Q jet. The engine SCREAMED with the free breathing AVS, but admittedly, it was too much carb for a 318. The Qjet gave good mileage and was easy to set up with its small primaries, and the secondary mixture is adjustable by simply increasing or decreasing the spring tension on the air valves. The AFB was OK, but did no better than the Q jet. Oh the days..... have fun.

#13 charger383

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Posted March 15, 2008 at 11:53 pm

Well I got the Edelbrock on today. I decided NOT to use the spacer/riser/adapter because the carb ports lined up perfectly. The Thunder AVS carb seems to be a perfect match for the stock manifold. I was concerned because the carb is a spread bore, but it would seem that one set of bores are smaller, but spaced properly for the manifold. I shined a flash light straight down through and I could see all the way in with no obstructions. And the butterflies cleared as well.

Bolted it on, hooked it up, and it fired right up.

I had a little trouble matching up the throttle and trans linkages, even with the "Chrysler Adapter" provided by EB as a kit. But I was able to fabricate what I needed to make it work and look relatively stock.

The car runs much better than it did with the Holley. Starts right up and idles higer until the car warm up and then I can kick the idle down.

The Holley only has 10,000 miles on it. It never ran right with that carb. I think it was just a bad match for the car. Especially when it was cold. Didn't seem to have any concept of a high idle to warm up (or it was removed)...thus it stalled quite a bit until the car warmed up. With the idle ramped up, it wouldn't stall, but then it would idle too high when the car was warmed up. It was a frustrating carb to deal with (even with an electric choke).

I didn't have time to take it out for a spin yet, as it has been raining on and off here (this car doesn't ever see rain).

I let you know how it goes after I drive it a bit. I expect the 383 to run well and throw me back in the seat.

Edited by charger383, March 15, 2008 at 11:56 pm.



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