44 replies to this topic

[Doug in Florida]

http://content.usato...2-filing-says/1

[dakrt99]

It will be interesting to see what they do with the Liberty. Personally, I would like to see them keep it on a truck frame, keep it rugged and not refine it like they did with the Grand Cherokee (Don't get me wrong, it is a wonderful vehicle, it's just not rugged, nor does it look like it could go anywhere off road.). I don't want to see all the Jeeps become a bunch of Honda Pilots - a percieved 100% lack of off road capability. This is Jeep, not Kia. But I suppose all Jeeps are heading towards refinement and unibodies. MT called the new Explorer the marshmellow of the group in their latest comparison. That's what Jeeps could be called in the future if they do not watch out. I think editors, analyst, writers, and every other enthusiast secretly likes the ruggedness of the Wrangler and would like to see that come back, especially in a Jeep.

[GasAxe]

I agree with your sentiment but don't forget, the Cherokee was a unitbody. No frame doesn't mean no performance.

[HD]

new liberty in 2012 would be consistent with the just announced cancellation of the nitro for 2012

[PhantomSpazz]

The new Liberty is smaller than the current one. It will be more Fiat based.

[noliebro]

The new Liberty is smaller than the current one. It will be more Fiat based.

that seems like a strange direction for them to go with the Liberty, it would then be nearly the same size as a Compass or Patriot??

[ImperialCrown]

This would be the rumored KL Liberty?
A Nukizer-like front end styling would be very welcome. I just can't warm-up to the baby Commander looks.

[Marauder_Pilot]

Think of it more as 'Giant Cherokee'.

[The Luigiian]

Think of it more as 'Giant Cherokee'.

So what will that make the Patriot, a mini Cherokee?

At least... that is assuming they don't keep the Compass...

Aside from that, what I'm interested in is seeing whether they keep the transfer case in the Liberty, and what they do with Patriot to make it "Trail Rated" post-CVT. (Assuming they bother.)

[dakrt99]

I agree with your sentiment but don't forget, the Cherokee was a unitbody. No frame doesn't mean no performance.

I stand corrected, I thought the Nitro and Liberty were Dakota based.

[browens1534]

I stand corrected, I thought the Nitro and Liberty were Dakota based.

G1 Durango was...

[unverferth]

Norm ??

(I just couldn't help it)

[lvelleq (o)llllll(o)]

Norm ??

(I just couldn't help it)

Hey pal, chumming is illegal in these waters. We only use barb-less hooks, too....

[Erik Latranyi]

Here is an idea........

The Wrangler is near full production, but there is speculation for a J8-type mini-pickup from the Wrangler.

Why not base the next Liberty off the Wrangler, turn both plants in to flex Wrangler plants to produce Wrangler, Wrangler Unlimited, Pickup, Liberty, and whatever else they can on the Wrangler architecture?

[GasAxe]

I'm sure Bob has given the ballpark amount for retooling a plant before, but I can't recall what it is. It's probably hovering around the more-money-than-god mark.

Buuuut... how long until an all new Wrangler is due? A couple-three years could be enough time to follow your proposal.

edit: A complaint of producing a "Cherokee" on the Wrangler Unlimited frame is the weight. Don't know if a cost effective "Cherokee" can be produced now without adding the extra weight anyway though...

Edited by GasAxe, March 29, 2011 at 01:23 pm.

[abgwin]

Sizewise, the Wrangler Unlimited and the current Liberty are very close to one another, specifically in terms of wheelbase and length. The more logical approach might be a fixed-top Unlimited and allow Liberty to compete more with Edge and Equinox.

The purists have never been happy with Liberty, so could they be happy with a Wrangler-based "truer" Cherokee replacement that wouldn't require a huge investment? The general market was very happy with the first generation Liberty - it was one of the best selling smaller SUVs then but now the more car-ish crossovers are the market winners.

Is there enough demand for two Jeeps in the same size class with very different missions? Or should the next Liberty be a Dodge?

[CherokeeVision]

If my memory serves me Bob has mentioned that the Wrangler does not meet NVH for what would be a non removable metal roof vehicle. Plus the Wrangler has really porked up and is far from the lightweight the XJ was. Not that any affordable design could meet today's standards and be lightweight.

I do think there is a strong demand for a metal roof Jeep with a suspension like the Wranglers. I would only add a transfer case that offered the features of the 242 which had both a part time and full time high range 4X4 setting. But I don't know that Wrangler styling in a metal top is the best look. I already dislike the more squarish corner styling of the Wrangler JK hard top over the look the TJ had.

For me, I feel I would be giving up too much if I bought a KK but I don't want the hassles of a removable top so the Wrangler really doesn't appeal to me. That is why I'm thankful how well my 2001 Cherokee is holding up.

[Erik Latranyi]

I think Norm and those who see Jeep as unique would applaud multiple vehicles based on the next generation Wrangler architecture......providing that archiecture is in-keeping with tradition while breaking new ground.

[lvelleq (o)llllll(o)]

Here is an idea........

The Wrangler is near full production, but there is speculation for a J8-type mini-pickup from the Wrangler.

Why not base the next Liberty off the Wrangler, turn both plants in to flex Wrangler plants to produce Wrangler, Wrangler Unlimited, Pickup, Liberty, and whatever else they can on the Wrangler architecture?

While it's a fine idea, Erik, the costs of transforming Toledo North into a BOF plant would be extremely prohibitive, and would actually reduce the Toledo Assembly Complex's overall flexibility over the long haul (especially given that unitbody vehicles are far more prevalent within Fiat's portfolio)..

There is room for a Gladiator/Wrangler pickup on the Supplier Park line, but that plant's overall output is constrained by the extensive maintenance requirements of its unique setup and the equipment that was selected when Toledo Supplier Park was built. In other words, there's room for a low-volume pickup, but not much else.

As for Liberty 3.0, I'm probably more hopeful than others that we'll ultimately see something closer to XJ than the mini-commander. And I'm excited about what I'm hearing powertrain-wise for the vehicle. I think Liberty suffers, in large part, because of its awful MPG, which just isn't competitive. What kills me though is that Jeep engineers are this far into its development and we haven't seen so much as a wayward screen shot or a dummied-up cammo mule driving around.