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[News Feed]

Responding to recent comments from Consumer Reports, Doug Betts, Chrysler Group's senior vice president of quality, told Bloomberg News that the rate of customer warranty claims has dropped 58 percent since 2007 as the company improved its “horrible” quality and customer perception. “We’ve gotten ourselves, at least with our internal data, to where I don’t think we have to be embarrassed,” Doug Betts said in an interview in advance of researcher J.D. Power & Associates releasing its annual initial-quality survey of new vehicles. He spoke yesterday and said he hadn’t seen Chrysler’s results yet. “Now we have to wait for the third parties to catch up.” Chrysler brand finished 23rd in the J.D. Power survey last year with 122 complaints per 100 vehicles, Jeep ranked 27th and Dodge was 28th. Betts, who joined Chrysler in 2007, has pushed the automaker to work better across divisions to find the root..

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[Citation84]

Comical. 122 problems per 100 cars equals 1.2 problems per car. Compare that to the 56 sample defects Consumer Reports found in it's test 75 or 76 Dodge Coronet wagon.

People have much less to complain about today and more time to do it in.

Put a Chrysler or Dodge badge on the "International Car Of The Year", the Hyundai Sonata, and watch the blood sport of automotive journalists eating each other alive to post the most scathing review the soonest.

[Erik Latranyi]

Considering that Ford plunged this year to #23 from its #5 position last year, I will repeat that the differences in quality between all the major automakers is essentially ZERO.

Drilling deeper into each model may provide some differences (comparing initial quality among minivans).  

However, when you look at things by brand, it is useless information as evidenced by the up/down movement of every player.

[DaveAdmin]

This is just a 90 day survey. Dealer prep and factory inspection has a HUGE role in how the figures go --which is why Mercedes always does so well in these compared to the 14-month and 3-year.

[Lead Head]

I don't get why you guys are criticizing J.D Power, people these days demand perfection, especially with how much some vehicles cost now. The fact that Chrysler is trying to drastically improve their J.D Power rankings shows that they now care about quality-control, fit-and-finish, and overall "polish" of their vehicles.

Like they say, first impressions are almost always the most important. If you perceive that the vehicle is problem laden and junk right off the bat, you'll probably never end up liking it.

Edited by Lead Head, June 23, 2011 at 02:59 pm.

[b1c]

First impressions are essential when someone switches brands.  I'm a life-long Chrysler guy, so I probably look at things from a different perspective than most, but I spent several months talking to my secretary about a Journey.  Finally, they ordered exactly what they wanted and waiting 6 weeks for it to get here.  About 3 weeks in, they had a big anniversary weekend planned and it wouldn't start.  As it turned out, the battery was bad and the fix was simple.  But, her husband is now convinced that it will go back to the company under the lemon law - so they are documenting every little thing.  In fact, it is in the shop this morning for a mysterious noise around the windshield, which I'm predicting will end up being another minor issue, probably with the wiper blade.  Anyway, instead of enjoying a special order vehicle and all the things that she really likes - they are nitpicking.  Guess what, this in their first experience with a Chrysler product and likely the last - all because of a battery.....

[scook6]

I think people are a bit more forgiving the that, but here is where the dealer comes in. If they take care of them well and FIX the problem they may buy another one. Are these the batteries that were supposed to come from China?

[Citation84]

b1c, on June 24, 2011 at 08:20 am, said:

First impressions are essential when someone switches brands.  I'm a life-long Chrysler guy, so I probably look at things from a different perspective than most, but I spent several months talking to my secretary about a Journey.  Finally, they ordered exactly what they wanted and waiting 6 weeks for it to get here.  About 3 weeks in, they had a big anniversary weekend planned and it wouldn't start.  As it turned out, the battery was bad and the fix was simple.  But, her husband is now convinced that it will go back to the company under the lemon law - so they are documenting every little thing.  In fact, it is in the shop this morning for a mysterious noise around the windshield, which I'm predicting will end up being another minor issue, probably with the wiper blade.  Anyway, instead of enjoying a special order vehicle and all the things that she really likes - they are nitpicking.  Guess what, this in their first experience with a Chrysler product and likely the last - all because of a battery.....

Yes, first impressions are essential. This sounds like a case of unrealistic expectations. And this is how, if this couple is a subscriber to Consumer Reports, the Journey will get trashed in the survey.

That's what "demanding perfection" [as referenced in a previous post] is all about. Sad. And ignorant. A lemon law is only used in a case where the same problem is evidenced over the course of a predetermined time, the dealer is unable to fix it and the car out of commission also for a certifiable and predetermined amount of time.

Mechanical things will have problems and need to be fixed. That's what warranties are for. Good grief: I think we've all gotten so intolerant and impatient, so entitled we forget that perfection in a manufactured item is impossible. That 1.2 problems per car is light years ahead of what it was just 10 years ago [and the difference is still not that great. IIRC that was an industry average "best" back then] !!!!

People start screaming "Lemon Law" after they buy some 10 or 12 year old KIA with 125,000 miles on it and things start going wrong. You see these dolts on Judge Judy all the time.

How the dealer handles it will probably make or break the experience. I hope the over all experince with their Journey will balance out in Chrysler's favor, but, b1c, I think you're right. Husband: "Everyone knows Chrysler products are junk. We should have known better. And that friend of yours at work is an idiot." And if it had been a Honda with a bad battery and a weird noise those would be overlooked because everyone knows that Honda makes perfect machines. Right.

Sick sad world.

Edited by Citation84, June 24, 2011 at 08:42 am.

[Bob Lincoln]

First impressions do count.  My brother bought his first new vehicle, a Dakota, in 1988, right out of college.  When he arrived on the lot in the early evening to pick it up (which means they had all day to check it out), the battery was dead.  It had been sitting for months, probably never been started in all that time.  While they were dealing with that, I checked out the jack, since he was going to hop in and drive from MA to FL that night with it.  The jack was missing from its location behind the seat.  When he told the dealer, the man looked under the hood for it, even though I pointed out the decal showing storage behind the seat.  He then went inside and came out with one a few minutes later.  I guarantee you he stiffed someone else by swiping it from a showroom vehicle.

It gives a very poor impression when they haven't even started the vehicle and positioned it for you to pick it up.

In contrast, in 1966 my mother bought a new Belvedere wagon from a local dealer.  The dealer drove it the 13 miles to the house, personal delivery.  He was followed by his ride back.  He spent an hour going over the vehicle and its operation.

When I bought my first new car, a 1985 Daytona, I was casually told as an afterthought that I'd better get to a gas station fast, as it had less than 1/8 of a tank of gas in it.

When I bought my second new car, a 1992 Daytona, I found it had less than 1/8 of a tank of gas in it, also.  I asked for a full tank, since I was spending $13K.  They refused, but finally gave me a $10 voucher for the gas station next door (even though they had their own pumps on site) and told me to go fill it myself.  The $10 brought it to over 7/8 of a tank.  How hard was it to just fill it completely and make a new customer happy, for $12?

[b1c]

I think you all are hitting the nail on the head here.  I would have overlooked the battery, I would have asked about the noise.  Neither would be issues with me, but then....

Anyway, the dealer was good and bad, good first, bad last, so bad was remembered.  Not that anyone cares, but here's the history:  When she finally got close to making the choice, she said something to the effect of  "my husband has never owned a Chrysler and said he never will - too many problems".  Since this person is my fleet manager, and therefore knows our service history, my response was "how many problems do we have with our Grand Caravans, how are they driven, and how many miles do they get on them?" to which she had to say, "you're right", simply because we don't have trouble with any of our fleet.  Freestar's - yes, Grand Caravan's - no.

Jump ahead to the problem battery.  Dealer's son immediately comes to the rescue and sends a loaner car for the weekend.  Trip happens as scheduled, no harm no foul.  On Monday when they didn't show up to get the Journey as promised, she started getting mad.  By noon, she was almost furious.  I saw the dealer's son at a meeting at noon and said "please take care of this as soon as you get back to work.  It is going bad quickly".  At 3:00, she was irate, called the salesman, he had a technican at her house within 30 minutes, got it started, took it to the dealership, ran the appropriate tests, and brought it back to her the next morning.  Had the followup on Monday been as promised - this whole issue would be moot.  Of course, this is the same dealer that always takes care of me and, by the way, takes care of our fleet.  Problem here was that 20 something son just didn't see the depth of the issue....

I know no one cares about this, but it's aggrevating to me when my Chrysler experiences - every last one of them - have been near perfect, but when I get a convert, they have issues.  Just venting I guess....

[codypet]

b1c, on June 24, 2011 at 08:24 pm, said:

I know no one cares about this, but it's aggrevating to me when my Chrysler experiences - every last one of them - have been near perfect, but when I get a convert, they have issues.  Just venting I guess....

I hear you man.  I'm dealing with the same thing in my Civic.  Bought it in August of 09.  2months into owning it the rear window grinded and squeaked the whole way down.  Took it to the dealer I bought it from.  Took a week to order the part, and said they'd call me.  2 weeks went by and I was never called.  I called THEM and they were like oh yea we have the part.  Took it in they fixed it.  1 month later squeaking and grinding again.  Took it to another Honda since I didn't want to deal with the first one.  This Honda insisted they couldn't replicate the noise.  I finally had to show them, and they responded with "Oh that was the noise you were talking about?"  They took it back, and worked on it.  Squeak and grind gone.  1 week goes by and it comes back.  I take it back to them, they look at it and fix it.  They also take the liberty of putting the dealerships license plate frame on the back of my car.  I did not buy the car at this dealership and they shouldn't have been messing with the license plate!   5 months later the grinding and squeaking come back (now for two windows).  I take it to a 3rd Honda near my office.  They look at it, order a part a week later, don't tell me the part is in so I have to call.  Take it back, they fix it, but never tell me the car is ready.  I end up calling them about my car, and they say that I had picked it up.  I tell them I haven't and after about 5 mins on hold they said the paperwork was messed up and my car is ready.  I've been transferred to North Carolina and guess what happened to my windows again?  Now I have to take time out of my life to get this window fixed for the what?  5th time?  There's a CDJ across the street from the Honda.

I joked that the 85 Plymouth Voyager has had fewer problems in the span of time that the Civic has been around.  Which is true (the Civic gets driven more and the van has fewer electronic gadgets to break).  That said, I think that'll be the last time I defect to another brand.  I'll get a 200 or 300, depending on how much I have saved up when its time to buy a new car.

[Erik Latranyi]

I agree 100%.....the dealer makes or breaks the customer experience.....and too many dealers do not understand/care how to create loyal customers.

[Citation84]

While JD Power is a quality metric, they have so many categories and so many "awards" that they've watered down any significance the acknowledgement might have.

Chrysler seems like it's on the right track and I'd give them a chance long before I'd ever give GM another one.

Edited by Citation84, June 25, 2011 at 07:51 am.

[jerseyjoe]

My Chrysler dealer service has been good but is starting to slip because he has taken on the service and sales load from the Dodge dealer across the street. An example is my friend isn't able to get his Sprinter serviced there and he feels that the nearest qualified Sprinter service 50 miles away.  Not set up for heavier trucks the Chrysler dealer is a smaller physical size than the now closed Dodge place that (Surprise) sold mostly trucks .  I personally am not as happy with the service any more but have no other near buy dealer to go to. Someone should have paid more attention to the closings.

Edited by jerseyjoe, June 25, 2011 at 09:03 am.

[MoparNorm]

jerseyjoe, on June 25, 2011 at 08:58 am, said:

My Chrysler dealer service has been good but is starting to slip because he has taken on the service and sales load from the Dodge dealer across the street. An example is my friend isn't able to get his Sprinter serviced there and he feels that the nearest qualified Sprinter service 50 miles away.  Not set up for heavier trucks the Chrysler dealer is a smaller physical size than the now closed Dodge place that (Surprise) sold mostly trucks .  I personally am not as happy with the service any more but have no other near buy dealer to go to. Someone should have paid more attention to the closings.

Jeepers had to deal with the same scenario when Chrysler bought AMC and forced the Jeep only dealers into carrying cars. While many Jeep dealers picked up only Chrysler/Plymouth, the Dodge dealers picking up Jeeps didn't have the right equipment or the qualified mechanics to work on Jeeps. If your Jeep was built by Chrysler, service was adequate, but if your Jeep was built by AMC, you were pretty much on your own, especially if you had a carburetor.
People buying a Mercedes Sprinter should have known that Dodge service would be spotty, there are several folks who own Sprinter based class B & C motorhomes who are pretty much S O L.

[Seagondollar]

MY wife's Compass has had three visits to the dealer for warranty claims.  The first was a batter (is this a trend?) and the other two required replacing the clock spring in the steering column and something else.  The battery was a bit past warranty and they just replaced it.  Score one for Chris Leith.  The first clock spring was obvious, but the second was something else and I really didn't see why they felt compelled to replace the spring the second time.  

But since then it's been a faithful vehicle (and she can be very picky!).  When we got the Compass, she  was considering the Honda CRV and other CUV (carry the horse saddle, local commutes, get good gas mileage, etc.)  And the thing (besides me and the good deal that Smith Stokes gave her) that sealed the deal as the lifetime drivetrain for the first owner that was being offered at the time.  A lot of times after our Dave Ramsey classes I hear "I'm gonna drive the wheels of the Jeep".

[dakotaquadsport]

Dealer experiences do count. Hence why I travel past no less than 5 C-D-J dealers to get to one that makes the difference.

Does Chrysler require dealers to continually monitor the inventory, meaning the cars at given points in time go through inspection? There was a check-list in my Forte when I had bought it, showing the dates of when the battery was tested (including the print-out from the load test), when the car was moved, when it was washed, ect.

[codypet]

dakotaquadsport, on June 25, 2011 at 11:19 am, said:

Dealer experiences do count. Hence why I travel past no less than 5 C-D-J dealers to get to one that makes the difference.

Does Chrysler require dealers to continually monitor the inventory, meaning the cars at given points in time go through inspection? There was a check-list in my Forte when I had bought it, showing the dates of when the battery was tested (including the print-out from the load test), when the car was moved, when it was washed, ect.

I imagine so.  The last page of the owners manual in my Civic has that same checklist.  And the buyer of the car has to sign that the things on the checklist has been done to the buyers satisfaction before they'll let you take the car.  If Honda goes through that length, I imagine they all do in some from or another.  Back when we took delivery of the '93 Voyager when it was new, even the hubcaps were something the dealer had to prep on the car.

[Stratuscaster]

The JDP initial survey doesn't just count things that break or needed to be fixed.

They also count things like "the consumer didn't like how the turn signal stalk clicked."