5 replies to this topic

[Citation84]

Does anyone know what happened to the Audi/VW 4cyl. AMC bought the tooling, production line and designs for to build it themselves as their own 4 cyl during the 76-77 period ? It was used first by the Gremlin, pre Spirit. I cannot remember whether it was ever offered in the Concord at any time.

They spent 60 million for all that and ownership rights. As long as they didn't advertise the VW/Audi link the engine was theirs.

Why, after spending all that money, did they produce this engine for hardly any time at all and then start buying the Iron Duke from GM ?

Would love to know what happened to this "AMC" engine and why it wasn't developed further.

[GLHS60]

I can't answer your question but I did own a 1979 Spirit with this engine. I installed a 455 Olds in the Spirit and sold the Audi engine to a shop that worked on Porshes. They were hesitant about buying the engine at first as they thought it might be from a stolen Porshe but when I proved it was from my Spirit they bought it. They wanted it for a Porshe 924, as it seemed to be the same basic engine, with a carb.

Thanks
Randy

[Citation84]

That's true about it being used in Porsches as well. That was mentioned in the Car and Driver test of the Spirit back when it was first offered.

Quite a capital investment to abandon after a couple of model years, especially for such a small company. Wonder if it was Renault's investment and thus control that mothballed it. But then : why the Iron Duke ?

They owned it, they could have developed it further. Does Chrysler own the rights to this engine too, now ?

The mystery engine........ this has always made me wonder. To me it's one of AMC's blunders of the period: miscalculating the sales impact of the Matador, the Pacer, 60 million for an engine line and design and tooling thrown down the toilet after a short amount of time.... Would love to know, though.

[ImperialCrown]

I think that once Renault took over, then VW powerplants were gone.
Chrysler needed the VW-sourced 1.7L for the Omni/Horizon. Chrysler did the cylinder head for their version. Too bad we didn't get the Bosch fuel injection also, but the Holley carb was a cheaper option. VW purchased the stalled Chrysler New Stanton (PA) assembly plant, but VW's no longer sold themselves and the plant closed. http://en.wikipedia...._Assembly_Plant
Renault had a big hand in the 2.5L/4.0L AMC/Jeep engine development from what I hear and fitted them with the Renix (Renault/Bendix) fuel injection system. This system was Moparized in the early '90's.
The 2.5L was AMC's own engine, derived from the 258 cid 6-cyl and not the GM Iron Duke. http://en.wikipedia....raight-4_engine
Renault got to sell their Encore, Alliance and LeCar here. Later when Chrysler got the company, we got the larger Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco cars. The powertrain layout from these cars inspired the longitudinal layout in the LH.
Pacers, Matadors and Ambassadors may have turned heads along with the promise of rumored Wankel and stratified-charge engines, but unfortunately like Studebaker-Packard the company was too broke to update itself by this time.

[Citation84]

ImperialCrown, on January 20, 2012 at 10:30 am, said:

I think that once Renault took over, then VW powerplants were gone.
Chrysler needed the VW-sourced 1.7L for the Omni/Horizon. Chrysler did the cylinder head for their version. Too bad we didn't get the Bosch fuel injection also, but the Holley carb was a cheaper option. VW purchased the stalled Chrysler New Stanton (PA) assembly plant, but VW's no longer sold themselves and the plant closed. http://en.wikipedia...._Assembly_Plant
Renault had a big hand in the 2.5L/4.0L AMC/Jeep engine development from what I hear and fitted them with the Renix (Renault/Bendix) fuel injection system. This system was Moparized in the early '90's.
The 2.5L was AMC's own engine, derived from the 258 cid 6-cyl and not the GM Iron Duke. http://en.wikipedia....raight-4_engine
Renault got to sell their Encore, Alliance and LeCar here. Later when Chrysler got the company, we got the larger Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco cars. The powertrain layout from these cars inspired the longitudinal layout in the LH.
Pacers, Matadors and Ambassadors may have turned heads along with the promise of rumored Wankel and stratified-charge engines, but unfortunately like Studebaker-Packard the company was too broke to update itself by this time.

No, AMC did buy the Iron Duke  from GM for installation in their Concord and Spirit and Eagle AWDs. A couple of years or more before AMC built their own 2.5. This was well documented by the rags of the period. The AMC 2.5 didn't come out till 1984. The Iron Duke was used in the interim from approx. 1980.

I am aware the AMC 2.5 was derived from the 258 AMC six. And that they're not the same engine. But AMC used the GM 2.5 before they built their own 4.Likely, as you pointed out, because of the cost of developing their own 4 cyl. And during the interim of the discontinuation of the 2.0 AMC 4 and development of the AMC 2.5.

Not very bright on AMC's part since they already produced the 2.0 and even contracted to sell some of the production back to VW.

Edited by Citation84, January 20, 2012 at 02:15 pm.

[DaveAdmin]

FWIW -- From http://www.allpar.com/amc/

With sales low in 1976, Gremlin were given a new, classy looking slanted front end, and for the first time had a 4-cylinder option from Volkswagen — the same 2-liter engine as the Pacer and Porsche 924, built in the United States by AMC, with Volkswagen buying engines from AMC. The redesigned front end cut nearly four inches from the overall length of the car, while a redesigned rear increased the glass area by 23%, with a lower liftover height. The V8 was no longer available, and the smallest six-cylinder was the 232, with an optional 258. With a price cut to $2,995, Gremlin was the cheapest American-made car in the U.S.
While Porsche shared the engine with AMC, the Porsche version was somewhat different, with a forged crank (cast on AMC), and electronic fuel injection boosting power to 95 hp and 109 lb-ft; AMC’s carbureted version only got 80 hp and 105 lb-ft, with a two-barrel carb and 4-branch aluminum intake manifold. At launch, there was no electronic ignition. The EPA rated the Gremlin at 23 city and 34 highway, and normal drivers could expect to get far lower mileage. Road & Track took the 2-liter four-speed manual Gremlin from 0-60 in a leisurely 15.7 seconds, with a 20.6 second quarter mile time (ending at a mere 67.5 mph); the engine was crippled by the car’s 3,095 pound weight (as tested; nominal curb weight was 2,745 lb).