17 replies to this topic

[jsb399]

will be buying a new 2012 Patriot in the next couple of months.
4x4 w/2.4  , no A/C
how is the 5-speed manual trans?  anyone have it?  would you buy CVT or 5-speed today?

Edited by jsb399, January 21, 2012 at 12:41 pm.

[ImperialCrown]

Personally I would prefer a stick-shift over a CVT. Stick adds some 'snap' to a 4-cylinder where an automatic coupling saps power.
Drive both kinds before you sign the paperwork. I'd be interested in what you observe. Most salespeople will try to talk you out of choosing a stick.
The CVT II added a $1000 to the window sticker of my mom's '07 Caliber.

[jsb399]

ImperialCrown, on January 21, 2012 at 01:01 pm, said:

Personally I would prefer a stick-shift over a CVT. Stick adds some 'snap' to a 4-cylinder where an automatic coupling saps power.
Drive both kinds before you sign the paperwork. I'd be interested in what you observe. Most salespeople will try to talk you out of choosing a stick.
The CVT II added a $1000 to the window sticker of my mom's '07 Caliber.

you're right, i need to drive it for myself. i just thought i would seek out feedback from people on allpar.
i usually buy and drive manual trans.
bouncing around other forums, i'm hearing good things and some not so good things about the stick. plus the 5-speed is not chrysler made, but then again neither is the CVT.

generally i find it's best to ignore what the salespeople say and then do the opposite.

Edited by jsb399, January 21, 2012 at 01:23 pm.

[Bob Lincoln]

What manual transmissions have been Chrysler-made?  The 5-speed in my Daytonas was made by New Process Gear.  Chrysler had a stake in them at one time, but that's not really Chrysler-made.  And it has been a great transmission.  I wouldn't worry about who makes it, unless it has a bad rep.

[dana44]

I like the manual transmissions, too. But, I am me and you are you, test both of them a choose for yourself. The manuals I have had over the years have all been good to me, clutches last and have good feel to them, not jumpy or grabby at all.

[MoparNorm]

Bob Lincoln, on January 21, 2012 at 01:43 pm, said:

What manual transmissions have been Chrysler-made?  The 5-speed in my Daytonas was made by New Process Gear.  Chrysler had a stake in them at one time, but that's not really Chrysler-made.  And it has been a great transmission.  I wouldn't worry about who makes it, unless it has a bad rep.

Just to clarify
New Process was the wholly owned Chrysler transmission and transfer case Division, from 1934 until 2007. They briefly merged with GM owned Muncie, to create New Venture Gear. Because GM Kept Muncie/Allison separate,  New Venture Gear was still the manual transmission division of Chrysler. After the 7 slot/Hummer lawsuit, GM broke off the "partnership" and Chrysler sold New Venture to Magna.

[ImperialCrown]

I remember driving on the NYS thruway and seeing the blue pentastar on the watertower going past Syracuse for many years. They got pretty good at what they did.
The Wiki: http://en.wikipedia....ew_Venture_Gear

[FThorn]

Bob Lincoln, on January 21, 2012 at 01:43 pm, said:

What manual transmissions have been Chrysler-made?  The 5-speed in my Daytonas was made by New Process Gear.  Chrysler had a stake in them at one time, but that's not really Chrysler-made.  And it has been a great transmission.  I wouldn't worry about who makes it, unless it has a bad rep.

Funny, when I called NVG's phone number once, it rang into a Chrysler plant 20 miles away. Not sure what that was about.

[MoparNorm]

FThorn, on January 22, 2012 at 08:29 am, said:

Funny, when I called NVG's phone number once, it rang into a Chrysler plant 20 miles away. Not sure what that was about.

New Process/New Venture was a Chrysler Division until 2007, maybe the customer service guy at NVG didn't want to live in NY....

[DaveAdmin]

I've driven the Compass and Patriot sticks. I would say it's a clearly superior experience vs the CVTs or what I would assume four-speed automatics would feel like.

[jsb399]

DaveAdmin, on January 26, 2012 at 01:41 pm, said:

I've driven the Compass and Patriot sticks. I would say it's a clearly superior experience vs the CVTs or what I would assume four-speed automatics would feel like.

thanks.

[jsb399]

DaveAdmin, on January 26, 2012 at 01:41 pm, said:

I've driven the Compass and Patriot sticks. I would say it's a clearly superior experience vs the CVTs or what I would assume four-speed automatics would feel like.

i'm still on the fence, manual vs auto.
i don't care about performance, acceleration, etc
i keep my cars until they drop and die or become prohibitively expensive to repair, usually 15 years.
so if i go stick in the patriot, i know i will have one clutch replacement. in today's front wheel drive cars, the clutch is buried, you have to take the front of the car apart and this is a $800 to $1,000 job. that cancels out the gas mileage savings of the manual.
since i'm going to get an extended warranty anyway, i would be protected from a blowup of the automatic.
lately though, i've been told the CVT is starting to show problems in higher mileage units around 80K to 100K miles, bearing failures. i drive a car easy, very rarely over 3000 rpm so i think i would be ok in regards to CVT durability, but i have to say the 4-cylinder/CVT setup cannot be pushed and driven hard like most people or you will have trouble.

Edited by jsb399, January 30, 2012 at 11:31 am.

[FThorn]

I drive a CVT. I don't have any gripes. I've driven all of the Belvidere products with CVTs. They are ok. Point A to point B. If you want quick, buy an Ariel Atom.

[Bob Lincoln]

jsb399, on January 30, 2012 at 11:25 am, said:

i'm still on the fence, manual vs auto.
i don't care about performance, acceleration, etc
i keep my cars until they drop and die or become prohibitively expensive to repair, usually 15 years.
so if i go stick in the patriot, i know i will have one clutch replacement. in today's front wheel drive cars, the clutch is buried, you have to take the front of the car apart and this is a $800 to $1,000 job. that cancels out the gas mileage savings of the manual.
since i'm going to get an extended warranty anyway, i would be protected from a blowup of the automatic.
lately though, i've been told the CVT is starting to show problems in higher mileage units around 80K to 100K miles, bearing failures. i drive a car easy, very rarely over 3000 rpm so i think i would be ok in regards to CVT durability, but i have to say the 4-cylinder/CVT setup cannot be pushed and driven hard like most people or you will have trouble.

The economics of this are different for everyone.  In my case, I bought my last car new, drove 270K miles before a clutch failure.  That $800 reprented about 200-300 gallons of gas.  The difference between an automatic and a manual's gas mileage over 270K miles would have been over 900 gallons.  So it looks like the manual is a better deal if the clutch lasts over 90K miles.  Most of them do, unless you live in San Francisco.  My current daily driver has 203K miles on it, original clutch.

[jsb399]

Bob Lincoln, on January 30, 2012 at 11:57 am, said:

The economics of this are different for everyone.  In my case, I bought my last car new, drove 270K miles before a clutch failure.  That $800 reprented about 200-300 gallons of gas.  The difference between an automatic and a manual's gas mileage over 270K miles would have been over 900 gallons.  So it looks like the manual is a better deal if the clutch lasts over 90K miles.  Most of them do, unless you live in San Francisco.  My current daily driver has 203K miles on it, original clutch.

agreed.
wow that's impressive going that long on the clutch, amazing.
for manual vs auto, epa numbers show only 1 mpg better city, 1 mpg better combined , 2 mpg better highway , 2.4L Patriot 4WD; although i think in actual experience the gain in mpg for manual will  be greater than that.
most of my driving would be in a large congested metro area(Detroit), so i think it's safe to say i would need one clutch replacement during the life of the vehicle if i drive it approx let's say 15 years/150K miles.
i'm a little disappointed when talking to local trans mechanics that they are starting to see CVT failures, and they tell me the CVT is throwaway and cannot be repaired or opened up, replacement is $3,000

Edited by jsb399, January 30, 2012 at 12:33 pm.

[DaveAdmin]

All depends how you drive. Manual gives a good driver opportunities for higher mileage than the test cycle indicates. I think it makes the car more satisfying, regardless of whether performance is any better. Probably the CVT is close to what an average driver would get in terms of performance, I don't know; but the five speed feels better to me.

[jsb399]

FThorn, on January 30, 2012 at 11:38 am, said:

I drive a CVT. I don't have any gripes. I've driven all of the Belvidere products with CVTs. They are ok. Point A to point B. If you want quick, buy an Ariel Atom.

i like the CVT very much, very smooth driving experience i think as long as the person isn't pounding the throttle.

Edited by jsb399, January 30, 2012 at 01:00 pm.

[ranchoazulmt]

My wife has the CVT. She loves it tries to get it stuck in the winter. It will be stuck in FWD and she'll engage the 4WD and keep going! She won't drive anywhere with out it. I used to drive everywhere. Now she drives and the passenger seat, get this, lays down to 180 degrees, lays flat so I can sleep while she drives!
Now I like that part since I live in rural (80 miles to WalMart! kinda' rural) Montana.

Adios and Vaya Con Dios