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AN: Update: Rare Pentastar problem


431 replies to this topic

#201 Danno

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Posted July 20, 2012 at 12:51 pm

Can we get confirmation that a focus is going to be placed upon the head replacement or...is it easier and less expensive over all, to concentrate upon new engine production to keep the lines running and simply replace entire motors???
There would seem to be a slight disconnect here with what is actually happening.


New car production always seems to take precedence over after the fact parts needs. So I am betting the fixed heads are being put on new motors to keep up with 3.6 demand, and when they can spare some, those are the ones that are getting out to the parts departments to fix the customer cars.

As popular as the 3.6 has been, I bet the head supplier is running at full tilt just to keep up with new production demands, let alone building extras to fix whatever the problem was.

The positive, there IS a fix.

The unknown, are current production engines fixed? ( Probably yes, this is where most of the focus is I am sure ) What are the production date ranges of the issue? Which I am not sure that they can pin that down really tight, because the heads are a sub assembly of a sub assembly. So production line dates may not be able to be known.

The negative. Taking too dang long to get these out to customers that have already purchased vehicles. THIS has to be a focus for Chrysler. They can slow production of current vehicles or whatever, but if they dont take care of the people that already have bought Chrysler products, then they stand to lose some of those customers next go round. After the sale is more important than anything IMO. You can get anyone to buy something once, but to get them to come back and buy again is the key.

Danno

#202 MoparNorm

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Posted July 20, 2012 at 01:51 pm

New car production always seems to take precedence over after the fact parts needs. So I am betting the fixed heads are being put on new motors to keep up with 3.6 demand, and when they can spare some, those are the ones that are getting out to the parts departments to fix the customer cars.

As popular as the 3.6 has been, I bet the head supplier is running at full tilt just to keep up with new production demands, let alone building extras to fix whatever the problem was.

The positive, there IS a fix.

The unknown, are current production engines fixed? ( Probably yes, this is where most of the focus is I am sure ) What are the production date ranges of the issue? Which I am not sure that they can pin that down really tight, because the heads are a sub assembly of a sub assembly. So production line dates may not be able to be known.

The negative. Taking too dang long to get these out to customers that have already purchased vehicles. THIS has to be a focus for Chrysler. They can slow production of current vehicles or whatever, but if they dont take care of the people that already have bought Chrysler products, then they stand to lose some of those customers next go round. After the sale is more important than anything IMO. You can get anyone to buy something once, but to get them to come back and buy again is the key.

Danno


Thanks!
Absolutely right. Retention cost 1/7th of the cost to gain a new customer. Retention equals market share. I know they do not want to break that string of month to month sales increases, but they MUST make the head replacement a priority BEFORE the press gets a sniff of disgruntled customers. Backing off by only 100 a day, Company wide, would allow them to catch up in a hurry...and it would allow them to spin the story as a parts supplier shortage, not a part issue. (Feel free to use that plan Sergio)
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#203 Boo Boo

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Posted July 21, 2012 at 06:59 am

Looks like there is a new problem with the new head.The Wrangler head is still on restriction and you have to call STAR to get the ok to repair it.I called on one this morning and got the ok to order one(that we cant for another 2 months because of the 1 every 7 days rule) and STAR said to check the cam bore because they have had problems with cams locking up in the new head.STAR said it was because the were so far behind on the heads that they were rushing and boring the cam journals.We still have cars here from 2 months ago waiting to get heads and we cant even order any more for another 2 months.So if someone was to come in today their car would be here for about 3 months before it was fixed


These types of things bother me. Another dealer service department that does not know how the system works. If the part is restricted to 1 every 7 days that can be solved by contacting the DM of the business center with the VIN's of the vehicles you have in for service and they will let you order more. The entire restriction is put in place to prevent dealers from hoarding parts they do not have an immediate need for while other dealers have customers that are in need of the parts. So by providing the VIN's the DM will lift the restriction to allow for parts to be ordered, you simply must prove the need. Now the part may still be on backorder and it may take time to get the part but it surely will not be 3 months. Any dealer that tells a customer it will be months to get a part due to Chrysler having an ordering restriction is simply misinformed at best, or lazy at the worst. I can hear the service writers now, " we can't fix your car for at least 3 months because Chrysler has a restriction on the parts and we can't order what you need". Yeah, that will make the customer feel warm and fuzzy.
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#204 SptFury

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Posted July 21, 2012 at 08:02 am

Boo Boo,from what you are saying, it seems the DM's need to send a reminder email or letter stating that if the dealers would provide the VIN numbers of the affected cars that they can get the parts by over riding the system that is in place. The DM's should be proactive in this rather than waiting for the complaints to pile up.

#205 Boo Boo

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Posted July 21, 2012 at 08:27 am

Boo Boo,from what you are saying, it seems the DM's need to send a reminder email or letter stating that if the dealers would provide the VIN numbers of the affected cars that they can get the parts by over riding the system that is in place. The DM's should be proactive in this rather than waiting for the complaints to pile up.


I can agree with what you are saying but this is not an uncommon occurence. This is typical with many recall parts,when many TSB's are issued, and simply a common failure part. I find it hard to believe any parts manager does not understand ordering protocol when it comes to this type of thing. Unfortunately I think that if they sent out the correct protocol anytime a part is put on restriction the dealers would simply start ignoring the notices. I can't tell you how many times I can get parts before the people that have ordered them in front of me by simply putting the part on special handling and upgrading to VOR while other dealers will not upgrade to VOR. Many dealers are living in the past thinking everything still works the way it used to 10 years ago.

#206 MoparNorm

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Posted July 21, 2012 at 10:08 am

Many dealers are living in the past thinking everything still works the way it used to 10 years ago.


Sad but true.
I can get the run around and stiffed at ridiculous prices at the CDJ dealer closest to me, or I can drive 50 miles and get excellent service, parts at jobber rates and talk to folks who know what they are talking about.

I can live with that. Unfortunately, the vast majority of consumers think a dealer is the same thing as the Manufacturer, they have no capacity or patience for this nuance and don't understand the separation caused by state franchise laws.
When they are ticked off, ripped off or made to wait, it's Chrysler's fault...whether it is or isn't.
It easy for the dealer to deflect anger by blaming it on Chrysler, it's easy for Chrysler to say the dealer isn't up to speed on the ordering method.
It's a shame they can't work together better, so they wouldn't have to make excuses.

#207 BASONE88

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Posted July 21, 2012 at 02:06 pm

Sad but true.
it's a shame they can't work together better, so they wouldn't have to make excuses.


There inlies the problem; disconnect = catastrophic failure <_< ;)

#208 Doug D

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Posted July 21, 2012 at 09:50 pm

but if they dont take care of the people that already have bought Chrysler products, then they stand to lose some of those customers next go round. After the sale is more important than anything IMO. You can get anyone to buy something once, but to get them to come back and buy again is the key.

Danno


Fortunately, "my" dealer has been very good in this regard. Case in point - our '10 Journey SXT had two recalls (ignition switch and reflash the airbag module) last year. Took it in to get both recalls taken care of. The ignition switch was taken care of quickly but they ran into issues reflashing the airbag module - seems the handheld unit they were using "fried" the module - they installed a new one and it did it again. Called Chrysler who told them to use a laptop as apparently the handheld unit was shorting out the module. Only problem was by this time (Saturday afternoon) they didn't have any more modules to install and flash. Sidenote - once the tech enters the VIN # into the module it can only be used for that vehicle - once it is fried it's no good. Anyway, the dealer ended up paying for a rental for a few days until a new airbag module could be shipped, installed and flashed. Ended up in a '10 Ram 1500 w/4.7L. Since the Journey was my wife's daily driver, she got to drive a Ram for a few days. Service like that will keep me returning and it has - our family has purchased it's last 3 vehicles from that dealership.

I know the demand for 3.6's is high, but I agree it would be better to satisfy current customers who's vehicles are waiting on the new revised heads than to keep the production line going full tilt.

#209 jerseyjoe

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Posted July 22, 2012 at 02:41 pm

Why do the two newest posters have the most troublesome reports?

I might be smelling Denmark.


Its like the "Swift Boat organization" is making a visit.

#210 Erik Latranyi

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Posted July 22, 2012 at 05:18 pm

Its like the "Swift Boat organization" is making a visit.


Don't get political

#211 jerseyjoe

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Posted July 22, 2012 at 05:42 pm

Didn't use the real name of the group for that reason.

Edited by jerseyjoe, July 22, 2012 at 05:42 pm.


#212 UN4GTBL

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 07:25 am

Fortunately, "my" dealer has been very good in this regard. Case in point - our '10 Journey SXT had two recalls (ignition switch and reflash the airbag module) last year. Took it in to get both recalls taken care of. The ignition switch was taken care of quickly but they ran into issues reflashing the airbag module - seems the handheld unit they were using "fried" the module - they installed a new one and it did it again. Called Chrysler who told them to use a laptop as apparently the handheld unit was shorting out the module. Only problem was by this time (Saturday afternoon) they didn't have any more modules to install and flash. Sidenote - once the tech enters the VIN # into the module it can only be used for that vehicle - once it is fried it's no good. Anyway, the dealer ended up paying for a rental for a few days until a new airbag module could be shipped, installed and flashed. Ended up in a '10 Ram 1500 w/4.7L. Since the Journey was my wife's daily driver, she got to drive a Ram for a few days. Service like that will keep me returning and it has - our family has purchased it's last 3 vehicles from that dealership.

I know the demand for 3.6's is high, but I agree it would be better to satisfy current customers who's vehicles are waiting on the new revised heads than to keep the production line going full tilt.


This is why we use our current dealer. Their service department has always been EXCELLENT to us. If they make a mistake, they are very good at making it up to us. That = repeat customers.

#213 jerseyjoe

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 08:15 am

This is why we use our current dealer. Their service department has always been EXCELLENT to us. If they make a mistake, they are very good at making it up to us. That = repeat customers.


Repeat customers = good service. Can't say that for everyone but Its been like that at the MOPAR dealers I've always used since I started driving. I have been hearing not such good stories about other brands.

#214 Dave

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 08:19 am

On a side note, I see the "View Garage" feature for individuals is finally working.

#215 brycmtthw

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 09:04 am

So I just experienced this issue with the Pentastar. My Sebring went into the body shop, Enterprise picked me up in a 2012 Caravan and took me to their secondary lot for a vehicle that wasn't a van or suv... While the guy it in the lock box the wipers went wacky on the van, they stopped in weird places and then turned back on. And when I got out I could hear the tick.... If I didn't know better I woulda dismissed it as an "emissions system noise".

#216 UN4GTBL

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 09:15 am

What Ford is doing for the new Escape owners - http://www.freep.com...ext|FRONTPAGE|s

#217 Erik Latranyi

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:00 am

What Ford is doing for the new Escape owners - http://www.freep.com...ext|FRONTPAGE|s


THAT is impressive and should be how all warranty work is handled!

#218 UN4GTBL

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:15 am

THAT is impressive and should be how all warranty work is handled!


Absolutely.

#219 redhed

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:16 am

any updates on how rare this head issue really is or isn't. it's kinda hard to ascertain from this topic.

#220 Danno

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Posted July 23, 2012 at 10:23 am

I can agree with what you are saying but this is not an uncommon occurence. This is typical with many recall parts,when many TSB's are issued, and simply a common failure part. I find it hard to believe any parts manager does not understand ordering protocol when it comes to this type of thing. Unfortunately I think that if they sent out the correct protocol anytime a part is put on restriction the dealers would simply start ignoring the notices. I can't tell you how many times I can get parts before the people that have ordered them in front of me by simply putting the part on special handling and upgrading to VOR while other dealers will not upgrade to VOR. Many dealers are living in the past thinking everything still works the way it used to 10 years ago.


Thank you for the info. I dont know of anyone local to me ( 7-8 dealerships ) that knows or understands all of that, so you have given me some good info.

Edit: I just relayed that info to my manager who is a 40 yr Chrysler guy, he didnt know it either...

When did all of this change? Ive been with Chrysler for 10 years now, and never heard or saw anything about protocol changes like that. I of course knew about VOR, but when a part is on BO, and you SH it, and there are plenty to cover the shown VOR's, you get them at the same time. I usually check to see if there are outstanding VOR's, and if there are, I wont bother with a VOR because you wont get your parts quicker.

Danno

Edited by Danno, July 23, 2012 at 10:28 am.



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