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96 T&C van, transmission issues with OD


8 replies to this topic

#1 miked

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Posted October 24, 2013 at 11:10 am

41TE in limp mode, no overdrive, but have reverse.  Rebuilt by prev owners about 8k miles ago, receipt from trans shop (ATCO, eeeeh) shows ATF+4 used so that is a positive - but van has a tow package option so assuming extra trans cooler is installed yet they only used 10qts - seems low.  First T&C van so coming up to speed on the trans issues via

 

Awating report on TCM codes from shop, more to come



#2 valiant67

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Posted October 24, 2013 at 11:56 am

When does it go into limp mode? Does it try shift 1-2-3-OD and fails on the final shift and drops into limp mode? Or does it go into limp mode on startup? My guess is in the first situation it's a mechanial issue and in the seconf situation it's a good chance of being electrical.
Of course anything is a guess until you have the TCM codes.

#3 miked

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Posted October 24, 2013 at 01:27 pm

When does it go into limp mode? Does it try shift 1-2-3-OD and fails on the final shift and drops into limp mode? Or does it go into limp mode on startup? My guess is in the first situation it's a mechanial issue and in the seconf situation it's a good chance of being electrical.
Of course anything is a guess until you have the TCM codes.

 

Just bought it yesterday, so have driven it once with horrible tires and gas on fumes so my attention was getting it to the tire shop when I realized I wasn't getting into OD on the way to the shop.  Long story, but somebody else test drove it and didn't notice, then I showed up and eyeballed it but no test drive.  Bad on me for not test driving it prior to handing the money over.  Lesson learned.    It went right into limp as best I can tell.  Was going 3 lane road stoplight to stoplight in late afternoon downtown Sacramento traffic so I didn't get to 34-45mph till after getting through a few intersections, then noticed that it wasn't shifting into OD as traffic thinned out and speed increased.  So as best I can tell it was in limp mode from the get-go.  No CEL visible on the dash

 

It never tries to go into OD, winds to 4.5krpm at about 55mph never shifting.  Couldn't freeway drive it due to tires.   No slippage at all, trans felt very tight, as soon as I let off gas the van was slowing down quickly.  I'm hoping electrical too. 

 

No codes from the shop yet


Edited by miked, October 24, 2013 at 01:29 pm.


#4 miked

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Posted October 24, 2013 at 03:37 pm

Leak in the return line caused near dry conditions which would account for limp mode.  Guy says no codes, but I find that difficult to believe.  Replacing split return line and filter, refill with ATF+4 and then they'll test drive.  Such rookie stuff, embarassing tbh


Edited by miked, October 24, 2013 at 03:44 pm.


#5 John Wood

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Posted October 25, 2013 at 08:33 am

Leak in the return line caused near dry conditions which would account for limp mode.  Guy says no codes, but I find that difficult to believe.  Replacing split return line and filter, refill with ATF+4 and then they'll test drive.  Such rookie stuff, embarassing tbh

Maybe rookie stuff, but if you got it at a decent price and it's only a hose and some fluid, it might be no big deal.

My fear would be that he only read the base powertrain codes and not the trannie codes.  Hence no engine codes.  If it went into limp mode there should be a tranny code defining why it did this.



#6 miked

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Posted October 28, 2013 at 07:42 pm

Maybe rookie stuff, but if you got it at a decent price and it's only a hose and some fluid, it might be no big deal.

My fear would be that he only read the base powertrain codes and not the trannie codes.  Hence no engine codes.  If it went into limp mode there should be a tranny code defining why it did this.

 

Yep, that is exactly the deal.  Return line replaced, ATF+4 filled, test driven and still in limp mode.  Kid at shop says no codes, I say BS.  It's in limp mode, it has to be throwing TCM codes.

 

Is there a way to read trans codes via the dash lights?  Or does it require a special OBD reader of some sort?

 

Wasn't a bad price, but now after 4 new tires and assoc mount/bal/disposal/tax, alignment, and this repair I'm starting to feel upside down on it.  The clutch pack isn't slipping so the only things left are TCM itself, solenoid, and the 2 speed sensors, or wiring.  Not that I want to be throwing parts at it without knowing what the codes/problems are - but want to be sure I'm thinking right about what is in front of me. That list seem correct?  I'm assuming that they would have reattached or noted any bad connectors.  But I'll ask to be sure.

 

Is there a reset procedure of some sort to kick it out of limp mode, or will the TCM handle that automagically if the error condition is fixed?


Edited by miked, October 28, 2013 at 07:43 pm.


#7 ImperialCrown

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Posted October 29, 2013 at 03:01 am

 An advanced scan tool (DRB II, OTC Genisys, Snap-on MT2500, etc.) is required to read the TCM fault codes. They will need the proper application plug-in module or card to read them. The average OBD II code reader just can't do it.

 A limp-in event will generate a fault code(s). Get the CVI's written down while they are at it.



#8 valiant67

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Posted October 29, 2013 at 04:26 am

You might get a P0700 code with a generic OBDII reader.  P0700 is a generic transmission problem code.  One that can read manufacturer specific codes might give you more specific details but as IC mentions you really need to access the TCM with the proper scanner to get the CVIUs as well. 

The transmission will reset if the condition is fixed. 



#9 95chryslercirrus

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Posted November 4, 2013 at 02:32 pm

I had this EXACT same issue on my 95 Cirrus, same specs. Transmission cooler and all. When I bought it, it did this the day after the dealer. I would be driving along and it would jump right into limp mode. It would start out as this in cold, but if you restarted the car after it had warmed up, it would take a while before it went into limp mode. And sometimes it wouldn't even do it, but it had to be warmed up. Which is why I never noticed it on the test drive. Do you know the reasons for why the transmission needed rebuilt in the first place? I hope it wasn't to try and cure a limp mode... sometimes $50 diagnosis at the dealer is worth it. They kept my car for two weeks trying to figure out what exactly caused the problem. Code 41, and DRB-III said the transmission was 'stuck' in second gear. Turns out, the TCM had failed internally. And my car hasn't entered limp mode since, that was a year and a half ago.

 

The mid to late 90's Chryslers could put out codes using the 'key dance' method. Switch the key from off to on three times within five seconds without putting the key in the start position, leaving it in the on position the third time. To the blinking code, there will be a two second pause between each digit, and a four second pause between each code. Code 55 is end of readout. Example: Code 12 always sets when there is a trouble code. It will blink once, wait two seconds, blink twice. Then if there are no more codes, four second wait, blink five times, two second wait, five times again for code. Then it won't blink anymore unless you do the key dance again. You can usually get basic transmission codes out this way, such as code 41. Some of the later 90's would also display an OBD-II P0---- code on the odometer display. There is an amazing code chart that the amazing people here on allpar put together for us that you can refer your codes to. Access it by using the search bar up top. Depending on your code, you need to see a dealer. They will reset the code and set the TCM for re-learn once the problem is relieved. If you perform the repair yourself, ALWAYS use OEM parts for sensors and electrical items, aftermarket parts are too cheaply made and are often not in spec and can cause issues like this. Good luck! :)


Edited by 95chryslercirrus, November 4, 2013 at 02:41 pm.



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