.
cars

Jump to content


Hello, Allpar Forums member or visitor! If you were an active member (more than two posts) or subscriber, you would not see this ad!

Register for a free account or Sign in (see top right of page for Facebook/Open ID login icons).


Photo
- - - - -

Fuel Gauge Problem


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
11 replies to this topic

#1 GANGELGGTCAWD

GANGELGGTCAWD
  • Inactive
  • 5 posts

Posted June 1, 2004 at 08:15 pm

Hello all:

About a month ago I purchased a used 2000 Chrysler Town and Country
AWD mini van with about 42000 miles - great van - except for one
problem - the fuel gauge shows empty and the low fuel indicator is on with
seven gallons in the tank - the used car dealer replaced the sending unit
in the fuel tank - same problem .

I ran the self test on the Body Control Module as described in this forum -
test ran OKAY !

I also notice that when I fill up the fuel tank - the gauge goes down at a rapid
rate - about 33 miles to 7/8 then about 66 miles to 3/4.

Trip computer shows average fuel milage from about 17 to 22 .
When I shut off the engine and turn it back on the fuel gauge will go back
to "normal" status (not on empty - NO low fuel warning indicator) .
When the fuel gauge showed the false low reading - I had the local
auto store connect the scan tool - NO error codes found.

I have a appointment this Friday - dealer will check voltages (this was scheduled
before I knew how to run the Body Control Module self test).

I was also looking at electrical diagrams - noticed that low fuel light;seat belt
warning light and low windshield washer fluid light were together in the
Body Control Module - so I kept using the washer fluid unitl the Low washer
light went on- guess what NOW my seat belt warning indicatior works (did not work before)
also The Alternator/tailgate open indicators Now work when you turn the ignition on.
Another weird thing - when I turn on the ignition key sometimes the airbag light
comes on and sometimes it does NOTcome on !
Suggestions would be appreciated !
Thank you:
gary

Edited by GANGELGGTCAWD, June 1, 2004 at 08:28 pm.


#2 gene - neonexpres

gene - neonexpres
  • Inactive
  • 1,726 posts

Posted June 1, 2004 at 10:54 pm

When you shut it off and turn it back on, is that immediately or after a few minutes?

If it's not immediately, look under the van and see if the tank gets deformed.

#3 madhater

madhater
  • Inactive
  • 66 posts

Posted June 2, 2004 at 12:00 am

bad gas in some states.... high sulfur ..= bad pick up sensors.........http://courier-journ...s0518-6393.html

Edited by madhater, June 2, 2004 at 12:03 am.


#4 Bob13

Bob13
  • Inactive
  • 64 posts

Posted June 2, 2004 at 06:52 am

I have the same problem with my 96 T&C (new to me). When the 1/8 tank indicator light comes on it only takes about 11.5 gallons to fill it up. When the gauge hits "E" is takes only 13 gallons to fill it.

I ran the BCM test and it checked out fine. What do I do next to try to get the gauge more to be accurate?

I have not looked to see if the tank is deformed or not.

Thanks
Bob W [FL]

#5 vipergg

vipergg
  • Active Member
  • 1,747 posts

Posted June 2, 2004 at 04:46 pm

I have the same problem with my 96 T&C (new to me). When the 1/8 tank indicator light comes on it only takes about 11.5 gallons to fill it up. When the gauge hits "E" is takes only 13 gallons to fill it.

I ran the BCM test and it checked out fine. What do I do next to try to get the gauge more to be accurate?

I have not looked to see if the tank is deformed or not.

Thanks
Bob W [FL]

Tanks from the 96 era had problems where the tank was actually warped and would not hold 20 gallons like are supposed to . In some case only replacing the tank will fix the condition not the sending unit . there were many TSB's for this problem back then .


Make : DODGE Model : CARAVAN Year : 1996 Service Bulletin Num : 140895 Date of Bulletin: JAN 01, 1996 NHTSA Item Number: 46493 Component: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:STORAGE:TANK ASSEMBLY Summary:
BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO NOV. 1, 1995 (MDH 1101XX). ONLY 12-13 GALLONS OF FUEL ARE ABLE TO BE ADDED WHEN THE LOW FUEL WARNING LIGHT COMES 'ON' (NORMAL IS 16-17) OR 15-16 GALLONS OF FUEL ARE ABLE TO BE ADDED WHEN THE FUEL GAUGE READS 'E' (NORMAL IS 18-20). BULLETIN INVOLVES INSTALLING A REVISED FUEL TANK.

Edited by vipergg, June 2, 2004 at 04:50 pm.


#6 GANGELGGTCAWD

GANGELGGTCAWD
  • Inactive
  • 5 posts

Posted June 3, 2004 at 07:51 pm

When you shut it off and turn it back on, is that immediately or after a few minutes?

If it's not immediately, look under the van and see if the tank gets deformed.

gene - Thank you very much - I took a short ride with the van -
when I got to the parking lot - I turned off the van and I looked under the van -
the tank was deformed (collasped).

So when the van is running the tank is getting deformed hence less volume for
the gasoline and thats why the gas gauge goes down fast because the gas
tank is collasping plus when I had 1/8 tank and I have the van ideling in the driveway - I can see the gas gauge going slowly to empty and also I notice
the gas tank deforming (collasping)

Thanks again - it is going back to the nice used car dealer with this info !!


Gary

#7 gene - neonexpres

gene - neonexpres
  • Inactive
  • 1,726 posts

Posted June 3, 2004 at 08:17 pm

With my 01 RS, the problem was solved by replacing the LDP - leak detection pump.

There is a TSB for the filter tube getting kinked on the '01s, but I didn't find that problem with mine.

As a temporary fix, I was pulling the tube out of the canister that went to the tank.

I also replaced this:
http://members.aol.c...2001c/purge.jpg

I think it's the same on yours - it was filled with sand in mine (as well as the LDP)
http://members.aol.c...s/2001c/ldp.jpg
http://members.aol.c...001c/gtank1.jpg
http://members.aol.c...001c/gtank2.jpg

Edited by gene - neonexpres, June 3, 2004 at 08:25 pm.


#8 GANGELGGTCAWD

GANGELGGTCAWD
  • Inactive
  • 5 posts

Posted June 4, 2004 at 08:17 pm

With my 01 RS, the problem was solved by replacing the LDP - leak detection pump.

There is a TSB for the filter tube getting kinked on the '01s, but I didn't find that problem with mine.

As a temporary fix, I was pulling the tube out of the canister that went to the tank.

I also replaced this:
http://members.aol.c...2001c/purge.jpg

I think it's the same on yours - it was filled with sand in mine (as well as the LDP)
http://members.aol.c...s/2001c/ldp.jpg
http://members.aol.c...001c/gtank1.jpg
http://members.aol.c...001c/gtank2.jpg

Hello gene - here is the latest - used car dealer tested the LDP and the
purge solenoid - both okay - he said no bad hoses anywhere -
as a temp fix he poke a small hole in the gas cap - this does slow down
the gas tank collasping process but does not elimanate it - he suggested if happens again - make a bigger hole - no luck - I tried a new gas cap no luck -
when I open the gas caps - alot of pressure comes thru the filler pipe - and then
gas tank goes back to normal status.

So for some reason I guess the gas tank vapors are not getting purge via the
"normal" process - this is the dealer I purchased the van from - he has done all this for me free today - gave me a loaner car;checked out some of the
componets on the emmision system and even filled the van full of gas !!!

At least we know the gas gauge is good;Body computer is good.
But at least you sterred me in the right direction with the collasping gas tank phots.

Thanks --
Gary

Edited by GANGELGGTCAWD, June 4, 2004 at 08:24 pm.


#9 gene - neonexpres

gene - neonexpres
  • Inactive
  • 1,726 posts

Posted June 5, 2004 at 12:15 am

I would pull the hose going from the canister to the tank. If the tank no longer collapses, that tells you the problem is further up.

I figured it was the LDP on my van...I pulled the hose going from the LDP to the canister. When I disconected it, the tank went back to normal. When I reconnected the hose, the tank collapsed. If the tank stays collapsed when you pull this hose, then your canister may be clogged/restricted.

I then pulled the hose that connects an external filter to the LDP. The tank went back to normal. I could blow air up into the filter so I knew the filter wasn't clogged, nor a restriction in the hose (there is a TSB for the '01RS about rerouting the air filter hose).

The LDP was pumping air (I could feel it on the filter/intake side), but all was well when I replaced it - never did check if the replacement pulled in more air than the old one...didn't have any instruments to test with, just my thumb blocking the port :lol:

I think the LDP was working, just not enough to fill the tank with air off idle...

It is supposed to be a closed system. poking a hole in the cap would be the same as a loose cap and might throw a code...

I didn't know mine had a few codes since the CEL bulb was burned out and I didn't notice that either :blink:

Edited by gene - neonexpres, June 5, 2004 at 12:18 am.


#10 GANGELGGTCAWD

GANGELGGTCAWD
  • Inactive
  • 5 posts

Posted June 5, 2004 at 07:07 pm

I would pull the hose going from the canister to the tank. If the tank no longer collapses, that tells you the problem is further up.

I figured it was the LDP on my van...I pulled the hose going from the LDP to the canister. When I disconected it, the tank went back to normal. When I reconnected the hose, the tank collapsed. If the tank stays collapsed when you pull this hose, then your canister may be clogged/restricted.

I then pulled the hose that connects an external filter to the LDP. The tank went back to normal. I could blow air up into the filter so I knew the filter wasn't clogged, nor a restriction in the hose (there is a TSB for the '01RS about rerouting the air filter hose).

The LDP was pumping air (I could feel it on the filter/intake side), but all was well when I replaced it - never did check if the replacement pulled in more air than the old one...didn't have any instruments to test with, just my thumb blocking the port :lol:

I think the LDP was working, just not enough to fill the tank with air off idle...

It is supposed to be a closed system. poking a hole in the cap would be the same as a loose cap and might throw a code...

I didn't know mine had a few codes since the CEL bulb was burned out and I didn't notice that either :blink:

gene - when I disconnect the line from the canister to the fuel
tank the tank no longer collasps.I will try your other suggestions tomorrow - tthanks Gary

more info

#11 gene - neonexpres

gene - neonexpres
  • Inactive
  • 1,726 posts

Posted June 6, 2004 at 04:25 am

Just so you know, the sytoms you have corrospond to the 08-024-01 TSB for the 01 Caravan:

SUBJECT:
Fuel Gauge Indicator Visibly Drops 1/4 To 1/2 Tank While Driving
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves inspecting the Leak Detection Pump (LDP) air filter hose
for a kink and repositioning the hose if required.
MODELS:
2001 - 2002 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO RS VEHICLES BUILT BEFORE
SEPTEMBER 30, 2001.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
With the fuel tank at 3/4 full or less, and after driving the vehicle for 10 minutes or at
least 6 miles, the fuel gauge indictor may visibly drop 1/4 to 1/2 of a tank providing
an erroneous reading. The fuel gauge indicator returns to a correct reading after the
engine has been shut off and the vehicle has sat for 5 to 8 minutes.
DIAGNOSIS:
Due to the nature of this issue, perform the Repair Procedure if a vehicle operator
complains that the fuel gauge visibly drops while driving.


But like I said, the hose to the air filter was not restricted on my van.

This was from the Tech Support and Help forum:
http://www.allpar.co...showtopic=37723

http://www.waltech.org/ldp/ldp.htm

You didn't state you got any codes, but this person's problem was the pump unit vibrated loose from the mount and the reed switch contact was intermittant...

And like I said, my pump was working, just not enouh to pump air into the canister/tank.

I will have to look under the 98 GC when I get chance tomorrow...

Edited by gene - neonexpres, June 6, 2004 at 04:29 am.


#12 GANGELGGTCAWD

GANGELGGTCAWD
  • Inactive
  • 5 posts

Posted June 6, 2004 at 07:55 pm

Just so you know, the sytoms you have corrospond to the 08-024-01 TSB for the 01 Caravan:


But like I said, the hose to the air filter was not restricted on my van.

This was from the Tech Support and Help forum:
http://www.allpar.co...showtopic=37723

http://www.waltech.org/ldp/ldp.htm

You didn't state you got any codes, but this person's problem was the pump unit vibrated loose from the mount and the reed switch contact was intermittant...

And like I said, my pump was working, just not enouh to pump air into the canister/tank.

I will have to look under the 98 GC when I get chance tomorrow...

gene -
thanks for the latest post -

I did some more checking today fron what I have read in the auto manuals -
my charcoal canister is okay and my purge solenoid is okay -
however - I was touching and feeling the LDP whie the van was running -
from what I can tell the LDP pump is not working -
Does it run all the time or as needed to purge vapors ?

The check engine light never comes on with all that is going on - the light is not burned out - it comes on when car is first started (routine check) -
I took apart the purge selonoid - looks okay from what I see - after I put back together - seems tank is collasping at a slower rate.
some other notes -
hose is okay from gas tank to charcol canister (gas vapors come thru when
disconnected from canister)

hose is okay from purge selonoid to charcol canister.
with van running and canister hose disconnected at purge solenoid - vacumn
is created intermediately as manual says.

Seems to be the LDP as you stated all along -- thanks - I have an owners manual on odrer for this 2000 chrysler tc - I will check the emmission warranty -
in Connecticut our emmission program is suspended - i have the hose fron the gas tank to the charcol canister disconnected as you suggested - however when ever
I have to get this car tested for emmissions i need the hose connected and the tank Not collasping - because these people use mirrors to also check the underside of the cars - would not be good to have then see disconnected hoses and collasped gas tanks. thanks again Gary
they also check the gas cap - I did get a new one but it did not solve the
gas tank problem.

PROBLEM FIXED THANKS TO GUIDEANCE FROM GENE - INSTALLED A NEW
PURGE SELONOID (LOCATED IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT) -
NO MORE COLLASPING/DEFORMED GASOLINE TANK.
JUNE 10,2004

Edited by GANGELGGTCAWD, June 10, 2004 at 07:21 pm.



.
Allpar

Home · Cars · Engines · Repairs · People
Tool and Car Reviews · News

Please read the terms of use and privacy policy. We are not affiliated with Chrysler Group, makers of cars, minivans, trucks, and Mopar (TM) parts. We make no guarantees regarding validity or applicability of information, opinions, or advice. Posts may be edited and used in other parts of allpar.com and affiliated Mopar (Dodge, Chrysler, etc) car related sites. We have the right to remove or modify any message, and to ban or suspend any user without notice. Logos and site-specific information copyright © 2001-2013 Allpar LLC; Chrysler PR materials remain property of Chrysler Group.