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96 Voyager Wont Start Help!


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16 replies to this topic

#1 Will123

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Posted December 13, 2004 at 10:08 pm

Plymouth grand voyager se 1996 6cyc 3.3
The service engine soon light came on recently but the van still ran great.
I decided to reset light by removing negative battery cable for 5 minutes.
After reconnecting battery cable there was plenty of electrical power for lights, buzzer and locks etc. but van would not start or turn over at all.
Small red light on top of steering column was flashing but has stopped.
I switched the key on, off, on, off, on. To read flashing code from service engine soon light and got 12 Battery or computer recently disconnected
The fuses I could see look good. Fuse 15-a DRL was not installed.

Thats about all I can think of at the moment. Very frustrating. Many thanks for your help!

#2 Struts 'N' Stuff Auto

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Posted December 13, 2004 at 10:59 pm

When you turn the key to crank position and nothing happens, it's usually an indication of a bad starter solenoid. If you can locate the starter and tap on it with a hammer, sometimes it will allow the solenoid to make contact and verify that thats where the problem is.

This is a common problem with these starters once they get to this age.

#3 Igor V. Nechaev

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Posted December 13, 2004 at 11:02 pm

After reconnecting battery cable there was plenty of electrical power for lights, buzzer and locks etc. but van would not start or turn over at all.

do you hear any click at all. there must be very faint click from the starter solenid relay (in the PDC) and much louder one from the starter solenoid itself.
Try to re-seat the relays in the PDC, especially starter & ASD relays.

Small red light on top of steering column was flashing but has stopped.

I presume it is standart anti-theft system, and I am given to understand that it will let you start the car and will shut it down in 2 sec

#4 John Wood

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 04:43 am

This does sound like a problem with the anti-theft system needing to be re-set. Try unlocking the doors a couple of times with the key. I don't remember the exact procedure, but look in your owners manual.

#5 valiant67

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 05:50 am

It sounds like an aftermarket alarm if it's flashing a small red light. You can try things to reset it like locking and unlocking the doors with the keyless remote (if you have one) or use the key in the doors if you don't.

#6 Werner

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 06:52 am

I am not aware of an anti theft system in the 1996 models, there is an alarm system but this would not cutoff the starting circuit. I second the idea of valiant that an aftermarket system might be installed.
But just for t/s:Interchange the ASD relay with the Fuel pump relay and check as well the battery connectors as you may have disturbed there something else.
The wires in the factory moulded led connectors are corroding and cause problems. I cut them off and installed copper connectors.
Werner

#7 John Wood

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 08:23 am

Yes, 1996 mini's can have an optional anti-theft system (ATS or VTA as described in the manual). It is controlled by the BCM and uses a lamp in the message center.

Per section 8Q-1 in the service manual: "The VTA will prevent the engine from starting until the BCM receives a disarm signal"

From a recent post on this board, we determined that the PCM will not allow the injector circuits to fire, preventing fuel from entering the cylinders when the alarm system is activated (vehicle attempted to be started without being disarmed). It may also prevent the starter relay from closing but I can't say for sure. There is a seperate factory manual that addresses this (body diagnostics).

EDIT:
I just reviewed the owners manual and disconnecting the battery is one way to arm the system, however, I would have thought that your lights would blink and horn blow in addition to the starter being disabled when you re-connected it. The flashing light does indicate it is armed. If unlocking a door with the key does not disarm it, try disconnecting and re-connecting the battery again. All doors, tailgate and hood must be closed.

Edited by John Wood, December 14, 2004 at 08:49 am.


#8 Werner

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 09:33 am

John you are right, just read it (4th line), the wiring is not very precise as I don't see any link to the PCM (8W-39).

Werner

#9 John Wood

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 09:49 am

The link is via the data bus between the BCM and PCM (digital pulses). Nice, huh? The manual does not reveal a lot of information.

#10 Struts 'N' Stuff Auto

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 12:11 pm

It is possible that the purple disarm wire from the door tumbler switch is broken in door boot and the wire needs to read ground when unlocking the door otherwise the system will still be armed. Check for a broken wire in door boot and repair.

#11 Will123

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Posted December 14, 2004 at 12:50 pm

wow! you folks are good! thanks I will try the above suggestions and report back as to the result. Thanks

#12 sckjhharris

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Posted December 15, 2004 at 08:51 am

If the alarm is in the BCM then how can an alarm enabled PCM stop a van from starting?

I have a '96. My PCM went bad. I got a replacement from a junkyard, but it is for the same van, same engine, but with the security system. My van didn't come with the security system. When I installed the PCM the injectors wouldn't fire. You could run the van great on starter fluid, but that won't work to drive the car.

Anyway, the point I am making is that the BCM isn't set up for security, but putting a PCM from a security enabled van into the system still cut off the injectors.

I recently got another computer for this van that doesn't have the security feature and the van started right up.

#13 valiant67

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Posted December 15, 2004 at 09:07 am

The factory security falshes an "alarm set" message in the panel above the speedometer. There is no red led that flashes so I don't think information on the factory alarm is going to help this poster. I don't know how a dealer installed EVS system might work in these vans though. I think if it is a security problem, it's an aftermarket system and who knows how it works. It may cut the starter instead of fuel. Also, with an aftermarket one, you would assume the key in the door disarms it, but you don't know 100%.

Do you have any keyless remotes for the van?

#14 John Wood

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Posted December 15, 2004 at 10:02 am

If the alarm is in the BCM then how can an alarm enabled PCM stop a van from starting?

I have a '96.  My PCM went bad.  I got a replacement from a junkyard, but it is for the same van, same engine, but with the security system.  My van didn't come with the security system.  When I installed the PCM the injectors wouldn't fire.  You could run the van great on starter fluid, but that won't work to drive the car.

Anyway, the point I am making is that the BCM isn't set up for security, but putting a PCM from a security enabled van into the system still cut off the injectors.

I recently got another computer for this van that doesn't have the security feature and the van started right up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The BCM and PCM communicate on a data bus. The BCM has the logic to determine when the vehicle is armed, disarmed, or security has been breached. It signals the PCM to allow the vehicle to start when all is OK (system disarmed by key or remote). The PCM is "fail safe disable", so if the proper data from the BCM is not continually sent to the PCM, the PCM just shuts down.

In an aftermarket anti-theft system, there is not that degree of sophistication. Usually, a control box just cuts power to the starter relay coil, preventing the relay from closing.

#15 tintmanpa (converted)

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Posted February 23, 2005 at 05:18 pm

i have the same problem...wont start..found my wires from my coil burnt back to the main harness...and friend the one compute moduel the one on the left side by the battery..i'm picking one up tomorrow fromthe salvage yard 125.00 a new on dealer is 325.00....

anyone heard of that happening

#16 John Wood

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Posted February 23, 2005 at 07:07 pm

i have the same problem...wont start..found my wires from my coil burnt back to the main harness...and friend the one compute moduel the one on the left side by the battery..i'm picking one up tomorrow fromthe salvage yard 125.00 a new on dealer is 325.00....

anyone heard of that happening

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It might be wise to check the resistance of the coil to insure it is in specs. However, it really sounds like the switching transistor in the ECM failed and shorted directly to ground. This is the device that would simulate the points opening and closing on a very old engine. The switching transistor pulses the coil negative to ground to energize and de-energize the coil, allowing step up voltage on the secondary to reach firing voltage.

To fry the insulation on the wire, there must have been substantial current flow. I am quite surprised that a fuse did not blow. You may need to do further checks for this after replacing the ECM and verifying that the coil is not shorted.

Keep us posted.

#17 tintmanpa (converted)

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Posted March 28, 2005 at 03:00 pm

hey sorry it took so long to reply but i finally got some time here at the pc. the problem was in the ecm. ....why it heated up the coil wires is not clear ...we replaced about 6 inches of the wired back intothe harness and replaced the ecm the one by the battery on the left side of the engine. it was a difficult time finding that particular one as it will only fit one model of van 3.2 liter. any way the used ecm cost 125.00 and the van has been running fine since...

thanks for your help cool forum

john


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