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1986 Plymouth Voyager, Sat 5 Years - Won't Start


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#1 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 10, 2005 at 11:35 pm

Hi everyone. I have a 1986 Plymouth Voyager LE with 2.6L engine -- Mikuni 2 barrel downdraft carburetor.

It's been sitting 5 years. I started some work way back, and well, one thing led to another, as is how sometimes things go.

Didn't do any real major work on it, except to replace the halfshafts and front wheel bearings.

Everything is back together now and I did the following:
. changed the oil / oil filter
. installed new spark plugs (squirted some oil in cylinder before install)
. sprayed carb cleaner in carburetor to loosen up some of buildup - choke plate was a little sticky at first


The engine won't start. At this point, I can get it to start up, but it won't stay running. Here's what I've determined so far:

I can see a stream of fuel entering the carburetor with each pump of the accelerator (or via the linkage at the carb). The vehicle starts on this, runs (sometimes as long as 30 seconds) but stalls I'm assuming after it burns this fuel off.

The vehicle utilizes a mechanical fuel pump. I disconnected the fuel inlet line from the carb and directed the line into jar. It pumped a lot of fuel when starting/running, so I don't think there's a problem with this. I know this fuel is old, but it looked very clean.

I disconnected the fuel inlet line at the fuel filter and plugged this line. I then routed a long piece of fuel line from a container of good gasoline to the fuel filter. Upon trying to start the vehicle, fuel was being drawn from the container fairly rapidly -- I'm assuming most of it was being returned to the fuel tank (two outlets on the fuel pump, one to carb (actually, to another canister, then to carb), and one back to tank). There was no change in doing this; car starts with some pumps to accelerator, then quits.

Now, I did get a long running start from the engine by directing a continuous spray of starting fluid into the carburetor, while someone turned it over for me for ignition.


I think I'm definitely dealing with a fuel problem here; I'm wondering if I should dismantle the carburetor and clean it all out? Also, I know the gas is old, but it looks clean and I didn't get any change in this problem when routing new gas to the fuel pump.

One more thing, when the vehicle starts off starting fluid/fuel poured in carb, and it runs, if I throttle it, it immediately stalls -- I'm not sure what this indicates??? Also, the vehicle will not start with the accelerator pushed to floor (only pumped prior to starting).

I appreciate any comments - thanks...

p.s.
. I did check (and do have) spark on each cylinder
. oil pressure guage does indicate oil pressure with each brief start/run

Edited by BlackholeForever, April 10, 2005 at 11:40 pm.


#2 KOG

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Posted April 10, 2005 at 11:39 pm

Yes, you have a carburetion problem. And the carburetor on that thing is hideous. It will probably be cheaper for you to buy a 10 year newer van with a 3.3 than to get that thing running properly.

#3 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 12:18 am

Hmmm... I was just reading in the old posts section and see a lot of noise with respect to this Mikuni. I actually rebuilt mine a few years before I put the vehicle into hibernation and never really had any problems with it - must of got lucky?

Any ideas on why the engine cuts out when throttling it?

And believe it or not, I actually have a '96 Chrysler T&C with a 3.8L.
This '86 is my labor of love...or, hate. :P

Edited by BlackholeForever, April 11, 2005 at 12:18 am.


#4 av8r115

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 01:17 am

I have 1981 2.6L w/ Mikuni that was sitting for a long time before I bought it a year ago. My secondary valve was stuck for a long time, and it took a lot of cleaner and moving the linkage to free it up enough to work freely and correctly. You may have a similar problem where you just need to keep cleaning w/ the cleaner, especially when you say that it dies as soon as you move the throttle. If it was working fine before you parked it, I'd go through a few cans of cleaner before tearing into it. Tearing down and rebuilding the Mikuni looks like a major chore to me. Not that it wouldn't be interesting, though.

#5 malcom

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 12:52 pm

Sounds like a fuel deprivation problem. Not enough fuel gets into the bowl at idle to keep it running. Flooring the accelerator leans out the mixture and it stalls.

I would spray cleaner into the carb. Shellac from the dried gasoline could cause problems. Remember that it will not run on carb cleaner.

You could also have a disconnected or leaking vacuum hose. If you can understand the complex hose diagram (should be under the hood), then make sure every hose is correctly attached. The chokes and egr valves are just a big PIA. Try not to make adjustments or at least remember where everything was originally set.

When it starts, does it run smoothly or roughly?

I rebuilt the Mikuni on my 1986 2.6L Voyager. It is the worst carb ever sold. The worst. You could do society a favor by junking the van and getting something newer and more environmentally friendly. I bet the a/c quit working long ago.

#6 av8r115

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 01:50 pm

It is the worst carb ever sold.  The worst.  You could do society a favor by junking the van and getting something newer and more environmentally friendly.  I bet the a/c quit working long ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell us how you really feel, malcolm! :)

#7 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 04:18 pm

I have 1981 2.6L w/ Mikuni that was sitting for a long time before I bought it a year ago.  My secondary valve was stuck for a long time, and it took a lot of cleaner and moving the linkage to free it up enough to work freely and correctly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


By secondary valve, do you mean one of the two valves down the throat of the carb? The one down beneath the choke valve (radiator side) seems to move freely when throttled. The other one (firewall side) doesn't move all that much, but I don't think it's supposed to.

#8 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 04:23 pm

You could also have a disconnected or leaking vacuum hose.  If you can understand the complex hose diagram (should be under the hood), then make sure every hose is correctly attached.  The chokes and egr valves are just a big PIA.  Try not to make adjustments or at least remember where everything was originally set.

When it starts, does it run smoothly or roughly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, I was thinking about the vacuum hoses as well -- I'm going through them right now and looks good so far. And when the van starts, it runs pretty smoothly.

I've got a few cans of carb cleaner, so after I'm done with the hoses I'll put them to work.

The only other thing I've noticed on the engine is that I believe part of the intake manifold gasket has deteriorated -- there is coolant/water leaking beneath the thermostat housing at the block (water passage). I don't suspect any leaks in the fuel passages of the gasket.

#9 av8r115

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Posted April 11, 2005 at 05:02 pm

By secondary valve, do you mean one of the two valves down the throat of the carb?  The one down beneath the choke valve (radiator side) seems to move freely when throttled.  The other one (firewall side) doesn't move all that much, but I don't think it's supposed to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

The secondary is in the aft or rear barrel, and only moves after the primary in the forward barrel has opened past a certain point. I worked on it because of poor acceleration and MPG.

I don't think the secondary valve itself is your problem because it shouldn't keep the motor from running. I only mentioned it as an example of what happened to me, and that using a lot of cleaner was necessary to loosen it up. Like malcom said, there could be a lot of buildup that'll take several cans of cleaner to get rid of.

There may be other things like a float or internal valve that's not moving. For that you might try what you did with the container of clean fuel and add a carb cleaning additive, in the right proportion, to the fuel. If it were me I'd also run a return line from the pump back to your container. No sense wasting that clean fuel/additive.

If you really enjoyed :blink: rebuilding the carb the first time, go for it! That should rule out the carb as the problem.

Edited by av8r115, April 11, 2005 at 05:08 pm.


#10 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 15, 2005 at 02:09 pm

If you really enjoyed  :blink: rebuilding the carb the first time, go for it!  That should rule out the carb as the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Well, I just started breaking the carb down about two hours ago. I've got the airhorn off and it's a major shellac-fest at the bowl and jets. Here's some pictures:

Gunked up carburetor #1
Gunked up carburetor #2

I don't know if this was enough to impede fuel delivery but it's not good. Probably just as well that I broke it down.

The airhorn gasket is pretty much shot. I was hoping I might get away with cleaning this thing up without buying another kit. I do have an extra gasket from my old kit - it's close to the original sans a few holes (which I could probably create). Here's a picture of the one off the carb and my extra one from the old kit:

Airhorn gaskets (old on right)

If I do get another kit, does anyone know where you find the OEM IDs on these Mikuni carbs?

Thanks...

Edited by BlackholeForever, April 15, 2005 at 02:11 pm.


#11 epaul

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Posted April 15, 2005 at 03:16 pm

geeeze, look at all that crap. Think what the inside of your fuel tank looks like.

#12 av8r115

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Posted April 15, 2005 at 03:52 pm

That's amazing. No wonder it didn't want to run.

#13 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 15, 2005 at 10:23 pm

I still cannot find this OEM ID that autozone.com or partsamerica.com lists for their carb kits. Any ideas?

#14 av8r115

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 06:20 am

I still cannot find this OEM ID that autozone.com or partsamerica.com lists for their carb kits.  Any ideas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Haynes SM for '81-'89 doesn't say anything about an ID. I did have a FSM checked out from the library, but I returned it yesterday morning. I'll stop by later today and look at it. I've spent a lot of time looking at the carb info, though, and I don't recall anything about an ID plate or stamp.

At the Carburetor Factory web site (http://www.carburetorfactory.com/) they call this carb a Mikuni Solex 32-35. (http://www.carbureto...om/expvw33.html) Although not exact, you could take a look at this gasket CF has pictured for the 32-35, and decide if that's what you have or not. That would eliminate one of the two options at partsamerica.com. Or you could call CF and/or order the part from them.

Another option would be to call a dealership and see if you can find a parts or service person who knows carbs that could tell you either if/where the stamp ID is, or on what date they started installing the superceding carb. If you find out the superceding date, then you'll need to check the manufacture date on the label inside the LF door frame.

Hope this helps.

#15 Pentastar

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 06:43 am

Well, I just started breaking the carb down about two hours ago.  I've got the airhorn off and it's a major shellac-fest at the bowl and jets.  Here's some pictures:

Gunked up carburetor #1
Gunked up carburetor #2

I don't know if this was enough to impede fuel delivery but it's not good.  Probably just as well that I broke it down.

The airhorn gasket is pretty much shot.  I was hoping I might get away with cleaning this thing up without buying another kit.  I do have an extra gasket from my old kit - it's close to the original sans a few holes (which I could probably create).  Here's a picture of the one off the carb and my extra one from the old kit:

Airhorn gaskets (old on right) 




If I do get another kit, does anyone know where you find the OEM IDs on these Mikuni carbs?

Thanks...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I sent you a PM a few days ago suggesting that it sounded like a float sticking would be the cause of your problem but it appears you did not get the message.
It now appears that I was in the ballpark.......the two metering jets in that pic are plugged almost completely and it looks like the float was hung up in that mess as well.
The gaskets that you are showing are significantly different,enough different that I would buy another jiffy kit to replace the one you need rather than altering the one you have.
I would replace those jets as well,they have to come out anyway to clean the passages properly.I am confident that you will have solved your problems once you get that carb cleaned up. Ron

#16 rocky2

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 08:36 am

I bought a small needle nose vise grip just to crip the water line to the carb,I used to go to boneyard and buy everyone I could find and put them on till one worked. And if I lived where there was no pollution test,I still may be driving it with a 2GC rodchester mounted on intake.



GOD BLESS

#17 av8r115

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 08:58 am

I still cannot find this OEM ID that autozone.com or partsamerica.com lists for their carb kits.  Any ideas?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Had another thought on the OEM ID thing, and you may have already reached the same conclusion.

You've got the carb right in front of you... if you can't find a stamp or ID plate, then there probably isn't one.

#18 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 11:12 am

It now appears that I was in the ballpark.......the two metering jets in that pic are plugged almost completely and it looks like the float was hung up in that mess as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, I just saw your PM - that was a good call - the float was definitely not moving too freely on it's hinge.

#19 BlackholeForever (converted)

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 11:49 am

Had another thought on the OEM ID thing, and you may have already reached the same conclusion.

You've got the carb right in front of you... if you can't find a stamp or ID plate, then there probably isn't one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Carburetor Factory (link) says "Stamped Number (in ink)" on top of the airhorn. I do see a very faint "25" at that location, but that doesn't match this "997xxx" number that the parts webpages are calling for.

I'm calling around (dealers, etc.) right now to see if they can help...

#20 av8r115

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Posted April 16, 2005 at 12:34 pm

The library here didn't have a FSM for the Voyager, any year. Sorry.

The parts guys at the dealerships should be able to use the number you found to figure out what carb you have.


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