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440 engine build - intake manifold questions


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10 replies to this topic

#1 captainmorgan

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Posted April 14, 2007 at 04:20 pm

First I'll give a brief description of the project. My friend and I are going to begin building a 440 motor this summer that will eventually find its way into a challenger. We're going to start from the ground up with a block most likely from indy, indy cylinder heads, a big stroker kit (bump it up to 543ci-that is if we decided not to bore), not sure about cams yet, and so on.

You can get the picture that we're looking to build a very high powered engine. I've been doing some poking around and reading but I'm still having trouble figuring out what intake manifold to go with. We still want plenty of low end but good high end as well. As far as carbs go, I am leaning towards something like a holley 1250cfm carb.

#2 dana44

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Posted April 15, 2007 at 10:06 pm

First I'll give a brief description of the project. My friend and I are going to begin building a 440 motor this summer that will eventually find its way into a challenger. We're going to start from the ground up with a block most likely from indy, indy cylinder heads, a big stroker kit (bump it up to 543ci-that is if we decided not to bore), not sure about cams yet, and so on.

You can get the picture that we're looking to build a very high powered engine. I've been doing some poking around and reading but I'm still having trouble figuring out what intake manifold to go with. We still want plenty of low end but good high end as well. As far as carbs go, I am leaning towards something like a holley 1250cfm carb.

Well, Indy makes some rather great combination kits to start with, so have you thought about just having one of their engine combinations to begin with? Considering the size of the engine, even a single plane and small cam by comparison, say something in a .550 and 280 duration @ .050 would give great bottom end, and if it is a roller, even if it is a 300duration at .001 would be small and yet give good top end, all considering. Have you thought of EFI for efficiency purposes?

#3 captainmorgan

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Posted April 15, 2007 at 11:42 pm

I'm not interested in buying an engine pre made. That defeats the purpose of doing this project. Yes I considered EFI but thats going to run me a lot more money isn't it?

From what I've read double plane seems the way to go, and I want a pretty aggressive cam. I want to coax as much power out of this engine as I can with it still being driveable on the street.

#4 dana44

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Posted April 16, 2007 at 09:49 pm

I'm not interested in buying an engine pre made. That defeats the purpose of doing this project. Yes I considered EFI but thats going to run me a lot more money isn't it?

From what I've read double plane seems the way to go, and I want a pretty aggressive cam. I want to coax as much power out of this engine as I can with it still being driveable on the street.



For starters, have you priced the engine you are talking about? Aftermarket block, aftermarket heads, crank special ground, rocker assembly for Indy heads, and to tack on a couple thousand for a fuel injection system is chump change after the more than $15K already invested on the light side, probably more in the low $20grand side of things (I've looked at their ads before). After going through all that price, I would probably look at EFI just to get the thing to idle and not be so cantankerous :lol: .

#5 Rodger

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Posted April 16, 2007 at 11:17 pm

Hola Challenger Person

Which engine and transmission did the car come with from the factory ??? I seem to be lost on what year your car is.

This will relate to the suspension that you have now and what you need latter. This will also relate to the rear axle assembly, drive shaft, U-joints and transmission too. I almost forgot the radior.

If the car has the factory A/C, this is an plus with the cooling and the power of the alternator. Another plus is if the car came with the OEM Trailer Towing Package.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

#6 captainmorgan

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Posted April 17, 2007 at 02:07 am

I'm not going with everything from Indy as you're right, the cost is rediculous. We're probably going to hit just over 10 grand with all the engine parts. I'll still consider EFI, but I really need to know more about how much its going to cost. We're not exactly on a tight budget, but there is no such thing as "money is not a factor".

Also I know there are different ways to go about EFI on these engines. I've seen the kits where the injectors are built into the intake manifold. I also am a bit lost on what to do about a fuel management system. They range in price soooo much and I don't know enough about the advantages and disadvantages of different systems.

Rodger
We're actually starting by building the engine first, and then picking up the car as we go. We're going to be replacing EVERYTHING on the car. We're going to be doing a ton of custom work throughout the whole car.

We're probably going to mount a modern chrysler AC unit on there and rig up the car with automatic temperature control. Yes I know how complicated that is going to be, but I'm not worried. We're also going to be putting a 140 amp alternator on to power all the equipment we're installing in the car.

Right now I'm strictly talking about building the engine. The rest of the car will come later. As far as what year, it's going to be an E body, so 70-74. It really makes no difference which year we get because everything is getting replaced.

#7 Rodger

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Posted April 17, 2007 at 02:48 pm

Hola Morgan

If you build the vehicle to be from the rear to the front, you will have a real true un-breakable vehicle. All you need to do is to plan what you are doing now and what is next. When you are finished, you have a vehicle that is ready to drive as soon as the engine runs.

An item of fact that you are not interested in is the number one engine in the E-body was the slant six. The number two engine in the same vehicle was the 318. This 2 bbl engine was an pay extra option.

If you use any vehicle smaller than an Imperial or the C-Body family, the 3.9 V6 with an carb and five speed manual transmission or the automatic transmission can be a very interesting vehicle to drive ( lowered engine weight vs same hp equals better performance, lowered engine weight moved off the nose equals better handling ). The 3.9 V6 weighs less that a slant six or LA V8 and will bolt to any transmission that a small block LA V8 does.

Last year MoPar Performance had an engine building contest. The rules were to start with an MoPar small block V8 engine and to be less than 440 cubes. They also were limited to a single 4 bbl carb. The winner was an twenty something old guy from Wis. since he also had an combo that was the best driver type of engine ( idled, had usiable vacuum, and could be driven on the street in an normal manner ).

When the raised big block 440 V8 went to engine heaven, the new style A/C compressor started being used by MoPar on their engines. This means that you will need to modifiy the A/C brackets to the compressor. If you use one of the more versiable engines such as the 360, the new style A/C brackets are in every pick & pull.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

#8 captainmorgan

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Posted April 17, 2007 at 08:56 pm

Yeah I understand that I'm going to have to have custom brackets made to mount the AC or modify some brackets. Thats down the road and I'm not worried about that.

#9 D100man

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Posted April 17, 2007 at 10:20 pm

My Buddys dad is building a 543 to put in his 65 coronet :P omg i want that car ................... ANYWAYS, i am ready to delve myself into building of another motor to put in the D100 and right now my choices are slim, i got the big block bug bad :lol: i was originally wanting to get ahold of my friends dads 360 out of a little red express and punch it out to something like a 426, but i think a big block would be alittle less expensive to get the power level i am going after. and plus anyways...... tell me something better than a stroker RB ;)





D100man

#10 TWX

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Posted April 17, 2007 at 10:48 pm

Aren't you going to have to bore the block anyway? I wouldn't imagine that the new pistons would fit exactly within such tight tolerances in existing cylinder bores, assuming a used block...

As for intakes, I'd probably go with a dual-quad cross-ram type intake. Not like the old tunnel-ram intakes, but something with a couple of reasonably inexpensive four barrel carbs sitting diagonally to each other, with a fairly long intake.

#11 captainmorgan

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Posted April 19, 2007 at 03:50 am

The engine block is going to be a new alluminum block from Indy.

Thanks for the intake reccomendation twx, I'll look into that.


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