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GAAAH! Casting Number Hades!


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8 replies to this topic

#1 TWX

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Posted September 21, 2007 at 02:45 pm

Okay, I'm having fun (spelled P-A-I-N) figuring out what's going on with 360 engine "308" head castings.

I've seen references to 4323308 cylinder head castings, and I've seen references to 4448308. Both sets of references points to them being on the same engines, '89-'92 Throttle Body 360s that oil through a rocker shaft.

Given the similarity of the 4323302 swirl port heads for the 318, is it possible that people got 4448308 and 4323302 confused, and ended up creating a fictional 4323308, when 4448308 is the actual number that we're supposed to be using? Or did they actually make two "308" heads with different casting numbers? If so, do they have significantly-different flow characteristics, or what?!

#2 rockhq

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Posted September 22, 2007 at 10:20 am

Since that particular head was so short-lived i really doubt they would have done more than two castings (318 and 360). Remember, chrysler was planning on a new head setup (the magnum) at that time, and since they had to concentrate on the front wheel drive 4/6-banger cars to keep them alive, resources and interest for old engine technology can't have been too great. Either way, valve diameter should be a dead giveaway, if not measure chamber CCs. Don't know if that era engines used identical intake ports or not, if they're the same as the older engines just measure the intake port width and height. Besides, aren't the last 3 numbers what count (ie. a 308 head is a 308 head is a 308 head).

Edited by rockhq, September 22, 2007 at 10:22 am.


#3 Rodger

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Posted September 22, 2007 at 12:06 pm

Sir

As already stated correctly, the 308 short lived 360 heads are found on 360's just prior to the Magnum series. Just locate them and bolt to any older issued 360 for a better performing package.

Leave the lil valved and ported size 302 heads for the 273, 318 and those type engine's.

I use them on an E58 Coded 1977 360, in an short wheel base truck.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

#4 TWX

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Posted September 22, 2007 at 04:44 pm

Since that particular head was so short-lived i really doubt they would have done more than two castings (318 and 360). Remember, chrysler was planning on a new head setup (the magnum) at that time, and since they had to concentrate on the front wheel drive 4/6-banger cars to keep them alive, resources and interest for old engine technology can't have been too great. Either way, valve diameter should be a dead giveaway, if not measure chamber CCs. Don't know if that era engines used identical intake ports or not, if they're the same as the older engines just measure the intake port width and height. Besides, aren't the last 3 numbers what count (ie. a 308 head is a 308 head is a 308 head).


Well, the only counter to your argument about the last three is that there were two 576 heads. One was the aftermarket equivalent of the 308 but without the drilling for the aspirator/smog pump, and the other was used, among other places, on E58 360 (police and towing small block) engines like the one that was in my '78 Magnum.

I went to the junkyard today and I found a '90 Ramcharger with a 360. I pulled one cylinder head to replace the one that the machine shop said is cracked, and it's barely-legible casting number appeared to be 4448308. There was also a '90 Ram, so if this head's bad I have some more options...

I suspect now that people have just gotten confused about the casting numbers...

#5 Locomotion

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Posted October 11, 2007 at 11:01 am

Well, the only counter to your argument about the last three is that there were two 576 heads. One was the aftermarket equivalent of the 308 but without the drilling for the aspirator/smog pump, and the other was used, among other places, on E58 360 (police and towing small block) engines like the one that was in my '78 Magnum.

I went to the junkyard today and I found a '90 Ramcharger with a 360. I pulled one cylinder head to replace the one that the machine shop said is cracked, and it's barely-legible casting number appeared to be 4448308. There was also a '90 Ram, so if this head's bad I have some more options...

I suspect now that people have just gotten confused about the casting numbers...


I hate to disagree with you, but there is no way that the 576 head could have been used on any applications before the 308's (approx. 1989-'91 360's), especially as early as 1978. They came out, from what I recall, AFTER the 308's were discontinued! 308's were also used on the original 360 Commando crate engines. All small block heads have been pretty well documented and nowhere has it said that there were any 576 heads used in OEM production. But there were 587 heads around '72-'74

But that was an interesting point about the 2 similar but different castings for 308 heads. I would bet that it is a simple mix-up. I've seen people confuse 302 and 308 heads thinking both have closed chambers. Only the 302 does. The 2 different 308 casting #'s are also listed in NHRA/IHRA class specs. But over the years creative racers have sometimes, somehow gotten the sanctioning bodies to approve things that never existed in the OEM world.

Bottom line is that I'm sure there is "actually" only one 308 casting and one 576 casting.
I've never seen any "factory" documentation to suggest otherwise.
Just trying to avoid more confusion.

Edited by Locomotion, October 11, 2007 at 11:06 am.


#6 TWX

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Posted October 11, 2007 at 11:42 am

Bottom line is that I'm sure there is "actually" only one 308 casting and one 576 casting.
I've never seen any "factory" documentation to suggest otherwise.
Just trying to avoid more confusion.

We had a discussion that I can't find now about this, where we figured out that there were two XXXX576 castings, with a different XXXX part on each, at least according to comparing data from "How To Hot-Rod Small-block Mopar Engines" by Larry Shepard versus the casting number on the aftermarket 308 replacement. I started looking into this because the E58 police/towing package 360 that I had in my '78 Magnum XE supposedly had this casting number for the heads (as listed in the Shepard book), and until we found the differences I wasn't sure what I had.

I'll have to do some more research some day. I've bought Edelbrocks for the car at this point anyway so it's much less important to me, but I'm sure that others care...

#7 86ahb

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Posted October 14, 2007 at 01:18 pm

When Mopar performance had more LA-based head offerings. The cast iron heads were #4772576. These also had different performance catalog numbers depending on valve size, fully equipped, bare, ported, hardened seats, etc.
They have the smog manifold boss area but not drilled, raised exhaust port floor, swirl intake ports and the more open chamber design. Chambers measured at the shop came out to be 65 cc's. It would seem that there would be some production variants out there that these were based on.
I had bought these quite a while back, in 1999, and I'm still using them!

#8 Locomotion

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Posted October 14, 2007 at 04:17 pm

86ahb,

There couldn't have been any factory production variants of the 576 because they came out after the Magnum-style engines/heads went into production. They were based on the production 308 head which was last used on 1991 trucks & vans. It would seem that after the 308 heads were discontinued in OEM applications as well as over-the-counter performance applications (including the original Commando crate engines), Mopar had to come up with a casting for enthusiasts and racers needing the shaft-style heads. Now, since the Magnums have been in production and they have a few variants of the Magnum head, they discontinued the 576 heads also - actually several years ago. They even came out with a Magnum head drilled for the older style intake manifolds. Unfortunately, the Magnum heads aren't legal replacements for the older heads in Stock & Super Stock and there are no more older style heads being cast. So for class racing, one has to hunt for NOS castings or the junk yards.

#9 TWX

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Posted October 14, 2007 at 08:37 pm

They even came out with a Magnum head drilled for the older style intake manifolds.

Even more annoying, they don't sell a built, ready-to-use head anymore in the Magnum design with LA bolt pattern. They used to, but they stopped selling them, and the dealer's parts computer indicated that the discontinuation reason was for lack of demand. They only sell partially machined castings that are in need of valves and other finishing work. The raw heads are $500 each bare, and in buying everything else and machining will push them well over the cost of the Edelbrocks. The finished heads were about $100 more a pair than the Edelbrocks by comparison. Obviously still expensive, but not nearly so unreasonable, especially since the bracket bolt holes are identical to the LA heads, while the Edelbrocks aren't quite the same, and will require a little bit of work to get the alternator bracket right.


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