Could there be light at the end of Chrysler’s tunnel?
First, let us begin with this - Chrysler Corporation, and even Chrysler Group as most of us know it, is as dead as AMC.
Now that we’ve gotten that over with, let’s look at how Chrysler Group is likely to fare in the future, and what’s behind the current insanity.
Juergen Schrempp and his supporters appear to be the German nationalists/ethnocentrists behind many of the actions that infuriated Chrysler loyalists and probably more than a few other Americans - like the German Engineering ads running every few months, the renaming of the American arm, and the continued use of DaimlerChrysler to refer only to the Chrysler Group in the US (with signs in front of every factory shouting DAIMLERchrysler at us).
His group is still in power - not necessarily in charge, but in power - and includes German bankers with a lot of sway; union officials; and probably government officials. The goal and method of this group is to buy other companies, preferably foreign ones, suck them dry, and divert the funds to making Mercedes appear profitable. It is probably this group that has been insisting that Chrysler has no value, and is dragging Mercedes down. It is probably this group that has been behind the accounting tricks that intensify or even create Chrysler’s financial problems, and the engineering trickery that lift the cost of building Chrysler vehicles while reducing the cost of building Mercedes vehicles.
On the other side we are told that Dieter Zetsche has been converted to the Chrysler Way, which incorporates the AMC Way. He has certainly put his weight behind flexible manufacturing, and has invested much more into Chrysler than we are told he was supposed to. He must have known about the ME412, the vehicle that reportedly turned Schrempp’s face bright red and brought forth a flood of profanity. (As we were told. We weren’t there.)
The Dieter crowd is not pro-Chrysler, but they do see that Mercedes has no future as an independent automaker in a world where everyone else leverages mass-market vehicles (except for BMW, which has been working with ZF and GM, and possibly others; and which actually does make two relatively mass-market vehicles, the 1-Series and the Mini). Lexus is after all a Toyota with all the trimmings, as Infiniti is Nissan and Acura is Honda and Cadillac is Chevrolet and Lincoln is Ford. The Schrempp vision of Chrysler selling old Mercedes technology could never work; Mercedes does not engineer components to be efficient in the mass market, and the costs are just too high. In addition, the stigma is too strong - the Crossfire died from the brilliant marketing ploy of “Buy this old Mercedes with a Chrysler name-tag!” And then there’s the problem of competitors like Toyota outfitting their Toyotas with the same current technology as their Lexus. They would not hold onto their laser-guided cruise control as a Lexus technology, and demand that Toyota stick to four speed automatics because Lexus was still using five speeds; handicapping Toyota that way would be alien to them. Likewise, not handicapping Chrysler would be alien to Schrempp. Chrysler could far too easily show up Mercedes by making a better (or too-close) car at a lower price. They’ve been known to do it before.
The Dieter crowd wants to see DCX like Toyota or General Motors - with different brands selling different looking cars that are practically the same where customers can’t see it. They’re looking forward to a time when the E Class and LX are much cheaper because they only have to be engineered once - and have enough shared parts to achieve economies of scale for Mercedes, but not so many as to make it obvious. In short, they want to be where General Motors was in the 1950s in terms of brand differentiation, and where General Motors is now in terms of technology and parts sharing. I’m sure with the huge number of variants Mercedes makes, they’d also love to see Chrysler’s flexible manufacturing technology in Mercedes plants; it would save them a fortune.
Where I’m not sure of intent is things like using the best engine or component at Chrysler, regardless of the benefit to Mercedes. The diesels going to Chrysler (aside from the Cummins in trucks) are all Mercedes, not Detroit Diesel or VM Motori, and they might not be the best choices; indeed, the V6 diesel is almost certainly not best for Chrysler, but that’s a decision made under the theorized Schrempp/Zetsche power struggle administration.
What will happen if Zetsche wins the war and the Schrempp faction leaves?
First, in about a month, DCX will have refused to sell Chrysler Group to anyone. They will start talking up its value and importance to Mercedes. (Or more likely they won’t, but if they did, it would sure help investor, employee, and customer confidence, and sell more cars as a result). Then we wouldn’t hear directly about all the sharing, but some people would hint at it. The bad-mouthing of Chrysler would slowly stop, and a new optimism might dawn. The idea of selling Chrysler will disappear. New factories will open in China to build Chrysler vehicles and export them to the US; Chery will become a partner and will make vehicles with Chrysler engineering under its own name, for the US and other markets. Dodge sales in other nations will increase.
While Plymouth won’t come back and the number of nameplates will be cut - along with the number of platforms - the interiors will start to get better and long lost features like wiper de-icers will return. The cost cutting will stop being so obvious. Ergonomics will improve as Mercedes loyalists get less of a say in how Chrysler Group vehicles are made.
If DCX is really smart, they would talk up the value of Chrysler Group, what they are gaining from it, and how good the cars are - as they did before the takeover, when the opinions of Americans mattered to more than the mere success of the company - and take down the DaimlerChrysler signs, renaming the Chrysler Group holding company to Chrysler Group. If they were really, really smart, they’d cut back on the number of Chrysler brand cars and restore Plymouth, making all three brands very limited in the number of offerings to have a clear, simple branding message like that of BMW.
The future will tell.
You said it, if they are Really Really Smart, the problem is they beleave they are Really Really Smart, do i need to say more?
In all things, especially investigatory matters, the old advice from many years ago, where the Treasury Department beat out the Untouchables headed by Eliot Ness, was - “follow the money.” DuetschBank, is Germany. German government is politically involved in the bank’s operations. Now, I don’t want a hit man coming after me, so as delicately as I can, let’s just say that the money sources have a way of meandering through a lot of “different” places. Have you noted the stock prices from just a few days ago? Now, if someone will only listen, even momentarily, those prices could hit higher marks than was seen since 1998. The Crystal Ball is cloudy at best right now.
Could it be, perhaps, that this is mere posturing prior to negotiations with the UAW? i.e. “give us major concessions or we liquidate the firm.”
We are in a deflationary, global economy. There are more than 1 billion workers on the planet who will work for less than $1 per hour. The rich UAW wages and benefits cannot stand. Either the UAW gives back or it loses everything. “Go ahead, make my day!”
“Chrysler could far too easily show up Mercedes by making a better (or too-close) car at a lower price. They’ve been known to do it before”
The Chrysler 300 SRT-8 comes to mind: can someone say Mercedes AMG killer for significantly less money??
Curtis, you touched on something that has been bothering me for some time. The concern started as I started to see the number of long time USA based Corp’s being bought by foreign investors and of course being taken offshore. I understand the theories of a world economy that each country uses its best defined resources, i.e. labor, raw material, etc to contribute to the maximum benifit of the world economy. These concepts were being taught 40+ yrs ago. The theory is great until political enitities take an active and more seriously a covert interest in undermining another country’s economy in their own nationalist interest. I don’t know that we are seeing this happen yet, but I am very concerned that our own govt. seems to underestimate the potential damage that could be done to the security of our nation not to mention to companies like Chrysler. I suspose if we knew what was going on behind the scenes, we would have many sleepless nights. Here is hoping that Chrysler can be cut loose with only minimial damage. If the American spirit were allowed to prevail, I have no doubt that a competitive and prosprous Chrysler could reemerge. Foreign investors should be limited to a minority interest in American companies and foreign backed investors should be prohibited! IMHO!! I don’t want to go ant further, in the political view, but we should never get complacent for the sake of a few bucks. It is like throwing a stone in a pond, the ripples go further than we think.
Should be-foreign govt backed investors should be prohibited not foreign investors. SORRY!
It is wrong that the United States is letting these foreign carmakers come in and take over. I also do not know why Americans are buying more and more foreign cars, all they are doing is making american workers lose their jobs to foreign people who will work for pretty much one dollar an hour. Please America help save our good old American carmakers by buying one and not buying a foreign car!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Bearhawke, I that, much of what Mercedes is building, are competive with Chrysler vehicles, It’s like a little (In house squabble), Like our groups version is better then yours! This seems as though it is pure Ego from the german standpoint, where as Smart busines would have determined which to persue well before building the model.
The irony here is that the engineering and intellect of Chrysler vehicles produced seems to be constantly Out doing thier counterpart.
It is obvious to me, and I suspect to many, That If you can’t beat them, and you ego won’t allow you to join them, the only way to Make yourself look better, Is to Attack them ! Drag them down! Gang up with all those whom are as embarassed as you are an kill them anyway you can.
And as though there were two minds in one body, If one decides to rip out a major organ, the whole is affected.
Yes, the problem with free trade is that the theory only works when both sides have similar conditions. You can’t have free trade with people who have slave labor, or who manipulate their currency, or who don’t allow foreign ownership of their companies (while you allow foreign ownership of yours).
The world economy is a fact that we must contend with, and compete within. Look what happened yesterday on WALL STREET as a direct result of a lowering of stocks in the China market. Granted, an alleged computer “glitch” was supposed to be partially at fault. HOWEVER, the news was quick to say, “tomorrow (nee-today) promises to be even worse!” What is to say that a government involved in banking (and don’t think that the FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM in the USA isn’t above the fray) could artificially create a sort of “run” at the world system? Just to flex it’s muscles. It doesn’t even have to be a big player either. Just have control over a percentage of money/stock in any given market. Do not forget that China has purchased a great deal of the USA debt, as well.
The world economy is a fact, but that doesn’t mean we have to allow it to run roughshod all over us. China has no intention of being taken advantage of; they aren’t letting free-trade ideologies hurt THEIR economy, but are carefully picking and choosing where they will free-market and where they will protect. How does one compete with a China? Answer: not by basing every decision on a free-market ideology that Adam Smith would laugh at (or cry at).
I have always been a really loyal chrysler customer ,but hate to say this ,after what I went through with my 2001 dodge caravan.the b/s of dealers running me around and the “no help from customer service in windsor,To the customer service rep that cancelled my extended warranty(at least tried to) hung up the phone on me ,due to the reason was”we spent too much money trying to fix your van” and sending me to every dealership in Ontario that went out of business….To the 5 star dealerships that would call first before sending out the customer service reports,but since I was not happy with the service I would never see one.
To the dstrict manager that threatned a dealership trying to help me ,not to get involved or fix my car.
,and to the sales men at the chrysler dealerships saying I bought a POS AWD drive van….
and would loose so much money on a trade in .I seem to have
more faith in my van than the manufacture does…To the dealer where I bought it passed the chrysler certified used car plan with flying colours (the walk by inspection was performed )There is more ,I better stop .
sounds stupid,but still like the van for so reason
In some cases, economic issues have a weight and a wave all of their own. Bankers will be sure to protect as much of their assets as they can. A certain oriental country tried to run the USA down economically in the mid 1980’s. The combined strength of the response, which took awhile, from the USA’s banking consortium has tied that other country’s economy in knots, never having the ability to overcome the very situation it had created for itself. The meanest thing to keep in mind is that China does own way too much of our debt, and we continue to generate more of it. China I agree will protect itself, however, it doesn’t mean that they cannot initiate a downturn all on their own that will cascade across the world. Selling “short” isn’t just an individual strategy.
For China to destroy our economy would be simple, quick, and easy: they’d just have to buy all the oil they could store, while simultaneously refusing to buy American debt.
All Chrysler needs to do is improve interiors & 2.7’s. All fleet cars should be one “low priced” brand Plymouth.
I agree with you Wally, the 2.7 has to be updaed or Dropped and leave the Peppy 3.5, Interiors are a much more urgent issue, how ever that is not the only thing they need to do, in order to lift up the American Spirit, they have to remove the Daimler name in everything involving Chrysler Brands or Products, Drop for ever the German Quality/Engeneering Campaigns, once qe are at it change to a complete diferent publicity firm (THat Nitro-Spirit Blowup SUX, and lets not talk about Dr. Z)
We all know that the UAW and CAW retirement plans are costing the “BIG THREE” a fortune, and lot of inversters are putting their cash elsewere untill that changes, meaning they become entirely broke and claim Bankrumpt, and start all over, Chrysler is the only one depending on a foreing firm that is why the struggle is and will be longer and much more painful, cuz once all the Plants in the US and CANADA get closed or Sended Overseas, there will be no interest at all to bring them back with new deals with UAW and CAW, and Chrysler will become another Foreing Competitors and 100% Chrysler Product will become IMPORTS.
So what Chrysler needs beside what u said, is to Rearrange UAW and CAW terms, in orther to mantain production in the States and Canada. which is quite important for the contry`s Economy.
Wich takes me to another issue, Why people buy Toyota´s, Cuz they are made in the states and most of us think that is important, beside Quality Records and stuff.
Funny how Toyota’s UAW and CAW plants manage to get by with those terrible unions that do nothing but destroy American jobs.
(A weaker dollar would do WONDERS for the domestics.)
Addition:
The UAW did not stick those heavy rear ends into the Sebring and 300.
The UAW did not cheapen the interiors.
The UAW did not choose to use hard seats.
The UAW did not buy those absurd and overpriced steering columns.
The UAW did not waste an entire year’s marketing budget.
The UAW did not decide to drop the Neon entirely and not replace it.
The UAW did not invest heavily in big trucks while the car business disappeared.
The UAW did not drop Plymouth and tell roughly a quarter of the company’s buyers to get over it. (Which most did - they got over Chrysler and went somewhere else.)
The UAW did not drop all existing product revisions and delay vehicle development for nearly three years.
Chrysler made great profits with the UAW and CAW in 1994-1999.
People buy Toyota’s because they have been conditioned, even brainwashed, to buy them. People buy in herds, they see Camry in their neighbor’s driveway and that’s what they buy and they don’t really think about trying a Sebring, for example. Toyota ads mislead people about how much they contribute to the US economy: they don’t say that the profits all go back to Japan, and much of the parts that go into a US built Toyota come from overseas. The politicians, most recently Trent Lott of Mississippi, have sold out to them. The US industry has practically zero friends in government. Pres. Bush thinks the US automakers should just go out of business, “if they can’t come up with relevant products.” (I’m not tring to be political, I’m a Republican myself. Wrong is wrong).
There should be a $1000 tariff imposed on every car imported from Japan. We may need to have “open shop” legislation in northern states to keep factories from being closed. If Chrysler can pay workers 25 or 30 dollars an hour, non-union, instead of 40 for a closed, union shop, maybe we can save some fo the factories, instead of outsourcing to China. We also need tax breaks to keep plants open, like southern states have done to attract foreign factories. That would require political leadership, which is sorely lacking in our politicians. They’re too busy passing non-binding resolutions on the war.
American cars are just as good as Toyotas and Hondas. There are countless LH cars, Ram’s and Chrysler minivans with 200,000+ miles on them. But they have to fight against a subsidized competition. Another 8 years of this insane free-trade policy and the only industry we will have left in the US will be tourism and porn. Bush sounds like some of the southern gentlemen in Gone With the Wind, when confronted by Rhett Butler’s reminder that “There is not a cannon factory in the entire south.” What will happen when we lose our automobile industry, and lose the capability to make trucks and jeeps, while at teh same time we find ourselves in a long term war in Iraq and possible Iran? I’m sure China will be happy to ensure a steady supply of vehicles, as well as computer chips for all our “smart” weapons.
Magna, please buy Chrysler, keep the American and Canadian factories open, reintroduce Plymouth, and put the pentastar back on all the factories.
Dave’s comment directly relates to me: “The UAW did not drop Plymouth and tell roughly a quarter of the company’s buyers to get over it. (Which most did - they got over Chrysler and went somewhere else.)” I tried to keep an open mind regarding the merger/takeover, but the eliminating of Plymouth and the way they lied about it (when the Plymouth badges were being left off the Voyagers) pushed me over the edge. My thirty years of owning Plymouths was deemed not important, I guess. Fine, so I bought a Nissan last year. Ironically, according to the book, “Taken For A Ride” by Bill Vlasic and Bradley Stertz, Jurgen Schrempp was very hot to buy Nissan right after the merger/takeover of Chrysler, but the board would not support the idea. Can you even imagine what might be going on today if that had happened? Would it have been better for Chrysler or even worse? It is rendered to speculation, but the only thing sure is if they still axed Plymouth, I would not be in the Nissan camp right now either.
I must agree with Dave, many of those bad decisions were in-house. (ie; german HQ)
Sadly our own media is as much to blame for the perception of poor quality in domestics as anyone else. Most auto publications damn all domestics with faint praise and cheer the imports equally fervently. See comments re; Sebring in this month’s Motor Trend issue. Recall issues have plagued Toyota more than the domestics in the past several years, but the media downplays the news, don’t want to look foolish after all the praise. I doubt if Mercedes will ever forgive Chrysler for doing a better job than they do, so it’s best if Chrysler leaves that marriage. A purchase by Magna would be a brilliant solution, if they can make the right deal, and REHIRE Bob Lutz, IMHO.
“Mercedes and Deutsche Bank are both sucking other companies dry to make Mercedes seem profitable”. Yea right. Together with black helicopters. Nice to see Allpar forums joining the tinfoil hat crowd… Btw, Deutsche Bank is completely privately owned (as opposed to Volkswagen, for example), so the German government has no influence. But exploiting people’s stupidity and xenophobia by blaming “foreign conspiracies” sadly will never go out of style. It used to be the Jews, later (and still) the Japanese, now it’s “ze Germans”. However, nobody has ever explained to me how Mercedes could ever benefit from deliberately harming Chrysler.
I personally didn’t bring up the German government, so I don’t know where that came from.
“However, nobody has ever explained to me how Mercedes could ever benefit from deliberately harming Chrysler.”
Very simple. Let’s say you want to get a bunch of cash into your company to (a) inflate your profits and (b) get enough cash to develop new vehicles. You search for companies with a lot of cash, profits, or assets, take them over, and use their cash. Then you start demanding that they buy things from you - designs, consulting services, parts. Like a poor quality five speed automatic and an electronics architecture, engineers to redo every car about to be produced, and, well, parts. You make them pay far more than market value for all these things. That takes money FROM them and gives it TO YOU.
Does that make sense?
Now, let’s look at DCX. Let’s ignore the parts that are obvious and look into the “economies of scale” issues. Like the steering columns on the LX. More expensive than the ones used by Chrysler, yet liked LESS than the ones used by Chrysler. Neither is produced by Chrysler or Mercedes or even a DCX company, but since Mercedes uses the one forced into the LX, Mercedes gets a nice quantity discount from adding Chrysler’s 100,000-200,000 sales/year onto its comparatively small order.
Chrysler had to pay for that five-speed automatic in the LX. It’s not a great transmission by any standards, reputedly expensive to build, yet not as reliable as Chrysler’s own five-speed rear-wheel-drive automatic. It might be smaller and lighter; I don’t know. But ZF makes one that’s much better (used in BMWs) and I’d bet they’d have licensed the design for the same or less.
You don’t need a conspiracy theory. The facts are all there for people to find. Dig just a little and they’ll show up. And being German has nothing to do with it.
They benefit by hiding their losses on Chrysler’s books, just like Enron hid losses in subsidiaries. This is not an anti-German thing. But look at it realistically: if Chrysler had bought Daimler-Benz and siphoned off $8 billion dollars and eliminated Maybach and Smart and closed factories in Stuttgart, do you think the German government would stand pat?
Great editorial Dave, and great comments by you as well. Especially #18. Some people love to blame everything on the union. Guess what? Detroit got the union it deserved. The behavior of corporate managements made the UAW the way it is. The deal settled on by Wilson and Reuther in the 1950s was that, in exchange for having zero say in how the cars were designed and built, the workers would get scads of benefits. Meanwhile, companies like Toyota decided that better products would actually result if the workers were encouraged to speak up.
Only one of Dave’s comments I take exception with: the dollar is already weak, just check out its slide against both the Euro and the Canadian dollar. The Asian currencies are just as weak, but that’s largely because they keep selling their own currencies and buying dollars to buy our debt. The Chinese are going to end up owning us because we keep spending more than we earn, at the individual, federal, and national levels.
On Chrysler’s problems, the quality is poor if our PT Cruiser is any indication, and the support provided by Chrysler is even worse. And, to paraphrase #18, the UAW didn’t specify the PT’s faulty control arm bushing design, or the wheels that required replacement due to corrosion at four years of age, or the torque converter that failed at 52,000 miles. Chrysler wants to make these my problem. Well, in this case my problem is their problem, even if they’d like to pretend otherwise. When on the phone with Customer Care I told the people there point blank that if they all lost their jobs at the future, they should remember the “care” they extended to me. They’ve been losing customers one at a time for decades.
Yes, the transmissions in many V6 Hondas can fail. But, guess what? Honda covers them to 109,000 miles.
There was a very good article in Det. News today, and I say good because this professional journalist, neatly summed up what has been discussed here in what seemed to me to be a very objective manner. I know that I sometimes use the term govt perhaps to loosely, but we need to realize and accept the fact there are very, very wealthy people in the 3rd world countries as well as in Europe and the US of A that could buy and sell small countries as easily as they could buy and sell a company like CG or DCX. Wealth and power can bea aphrasidic that highly patroitic people can develop into a nationalistic fervor that sees no boundaries to fulfilling their power and ego trip. Are we seeing individuals or groups of individuals that are acting as a “govt”, having access to the resources of their native land to benefit their native land? Are those activities endorsed by, China, Japan, Germany or an Arab nation or nations? What does this have to do with DCX or Toyota or Chery? Maybe nothing, but maybe CG [C-J-D] and who eventually has ownership of ‘our’ Company could be the lynch pin to who will govern the affairs of this great nation. General Esinhower is said to have said that ” the Jeep won the war for the Allies”. Maybe Jeep needs to step up to the plate again. One further comment ” I don’t have the answers, but I have a lot of questions”.
For China to destroy our economy would be simple, quick, and easy: they’d just have to buy all the oil they could store, while simultaneously refusing to buy American debt.
Sino-cide.
Buying all of that oil would drive up the price of oil which would more cripple their rigid economy than our flexible economy. After that, the deluge. Their storage facilities filled, the purchases would stop, the price of oil would plunge and they’d be stuck with the overpriced oil while we enjoyed the lower priced oil.
Refusing to buy U.S. debt? What then would they buy? Eschewing U.S. securities would drive down the value of the $1,000,000,000,000 they currently hold. The Yuan would then have less value than dirt.
They could hold the debt of any number of companies; they could buy real estate; they could buy corporations.
As for the price of oil, yes, their economy would suffer too. However, I recall all sorts of people tellig me some gibberish about how Ronald Reagan destroyed the Soviet economy by deliberately overspending on military stuff. (Never mind that Gorby had already stopped matching the US and was indeed slashing his military budget as we were bankrupting him somehow with our own massive deficits). Point is, yes, China’s economy would be hurt; but so would ours. I suspect with their lesser reliance on energy, they’d get by. Of course one could argue that after the initial shock, we would too, as we switched to alternatives and re-opened capped wells that would suddenly become viable.
Don’t think China will do that any time soon; at some point they might start buying companies (like Lenovo!) with all that cash they get from our desire to outsource everything.
I don’t know where all this posturing will take us, but I do know that if it isn’t figured out soon, DCX won’t have any customers to buy what poorly made crap they put out. When my boss bought his Ram 1500 in ‘04, he went by my experience with my 97 Ram 1500. When he had trans. trouble, all he got was the run around. Even the distict mgr. wouldn’t talk to him. It’s customer relations like this that kill sales. You can’t grow sales if you don’t have repeat buyers. After my boss’ experience with his first Dodge, he’ll never buy another one,and who could blame him? When you suck a company dry, and don’t give any backing to the dealer network, and don’t address quality issues, this is what you get. If CG gets sold to GM, I don’t think I could buy another new Chrysler product.
Has anyone seen these aftermarket Overdrive systems? I looked at one recently for my 1985 Ram 150 That I could bolt it up to my tranny, and turn My 727 into a 6 speed, The reported result for this is an average 30% increase in MPG, 40 HP and 60 ft lb.
As I understand the use you can double your ratios A 4 speed auto would be an 8 speed etc.
For my 22 yr old Ram, the cost is around 1,900.00 Bucks plus any changes to the drive shaft would be extra.
Seeing this system You have to think, (Dealer’s sell what they are given to sell) and yet as I sometimes notice while at the dealer, Are the Accessories they are using on new cars, they order them with base Rims, and Put on 22″,26″ aftermarket rims!
The ones I have seen retail well over 3K for the set plus the cost of tires.
Honestly wouldn’t you think that a dealer might Offer something like a “Transmission Upgrade Package” (or whatever you wanted to call it)
Tack the $2500 on it’s invoice price on top end , and middle of the road priced models.
Humm I were shopping for a new Ram, or really any RWD car (don’t know if it would work as well with MDS)??? and I could Have truck I wanted, That got 30% more MPG (anyone have a calculator) about 5 MPG better, 40 HP, and 60 ft lb. That would be a full size Truck with like what??
18 city/25 hwy , 385 HP! What would do for Diesel Model, around 18 city/ 26,27 hwy? We all know that est MPG’s are usually much higher then real life, But it is a huge factor in the minds of the buyer, when deciding on which one they will buy.
Bad ownership+crappy products+poor service= Chyrsler group, grope, gripe, whatever they call themselvies these days. Even before the take over Chrysler didn’t do business right, for example in California back in 1996 the state proposed a ban of importation of Chrysler vehicles for a period of 60 days. Why? because Chrysler resold “lemon” cars without telling the new owners of the cars past. Were the cars fixed before sale……NO! On a different track….. the American auto industry reminds me of the British auto industry of a few years ago. Did you know that there not one British owned auto manufactor in G.B. There’s a few tiny companies but nothing of large volume. That sad fact has already happened to Chrysler
Why should we even care about this corporation, group, grope, gripe or whatever they call it now days. Brand loyalty is a thing of the past…….turn off the lights.. the party’s over.
They could hold the debt of any number of companies; they could buy real estate; they could buy corporations.
Serendipitously, I yesterday heard Bob Brinker take Presidential candidate Hillary Alinsky apart for her misstating the qualities of debt. In Treasuries, all the Chinese hold is some IOUs.
Corporate debt? What of it?
Real Estate? Pat Choate made good money writing books about Japan Inc. buying up America. Pat Choate has been quickly forgotten.
Buying corporations? As said Mr. Brinker, they can’t because we don’t let them. As not said by Mr. Brinker, any Chinese entity attempting to purchase an actual U.S. corporation (not a product line like Lenovo) would have to open its books to the extent that few Chinese entities can afford to do.
The Reagan-Gorby-oil stockpiling nexus don’t nex. That’s a hodgepodge of disparate elements.
So, who owns the Federal Reserve System in the United States? Are they a wholly independent entity? Think Deutsch Bank is wholly independent then ask who sits on their board. They are privately owned to the extent that they operate as such, however, to touch them is to touch Germany. Backed by the full faith and independence of the German Government and German economy. Check the history before you engage your burnt out clutch. To suggest that government and/or politics is not involved in all of this shows absolute ignorance of the situation in the world we try to function in today. Black helicopters and tin foil hats may be more in step with what is going on than the sheer arrogance of ignorant sarcastic remarks. What vehicles are purchased and operated by all levels of German Government more than any other, including the law enforcement, investigative and other arms of the German Government. Who finances them? When the German Government needs to borrow a bit of money, who do they get it from? Hint: It ain’t the Bank of America. Although on second thought, maybe it is. Since they too operate as a wholly independent entity in Germany and elsewhere, properly loaning money to the Deutsch Bank internally. Oh….. excuse me, I got to get my tin foil hat. A black helicopter is landing in the back yard so that I can attend the next ALLPARIAN space intervention convention. Perhaps you would do as well if next time you put your tin foil hat on your head and not sit on it so as to block your bottom. Everyone has one of those things, and the functionality is interrupted by repeated beams from the black helicopters and the radiation emitted by the eye in the pyramid on the US One Dollar bill. It’s been known to effect economies over the world.
This is starting to get fun.
If China can’t buy companies in the US, they can buy companies in less regulated places. Lots of sleazy companies like Halliburton stay in countries that are less regulated. There’s gold mines, oil wells, all sorts of things you can buy. You can license technology, buy factories and ship them home…
I was unaware that you could not buy a US corporation without opening your books. However, the Lenovo case shows that it’s possible to get around that rule. For example, could China buy Chrysler Group? Could they buy, say, Cadillac and Chevrolet from General Motors? Could they buy the Macintosh and iPod lines from Apple (leaving Filemaker)? Could they buy the Purina animal foods businesses?
Could Chinese companies buy Rockefeller Center as a Japanese company did?
Re Paul Choate, well, Japan is a small country; and they were challenged by their lack of natural resources, size, and built in financial issues. China, on the other hand, is a HUGE country, and while I’m sure they’ll encounter similar setbacks, they are now probably more advanced in trade surplus than Japan has ever been - correct me if I’m wrong - with daily growth.
Aren´t you guys loosing track of the subject here?
What about Chrysler´s Future,
Dave: a Plane ans simple 5 yr old kid kinda question… Would you like an Independent Chrysler or a GM branch Chrysler?
Independnet.
If China can’t buy companies in the US, they can buy companies in less regulated places.
As can U.S. entities. They won’t unless the purchase makes economic sense.
Lots of sleazy companies like Halliburton stay in countries that are less regulated.
George Soros will be crushed when he hears this.
There’s gold mines, oil wells, all sorts of things you can buy. You can license technology, buy factories and ship them home…
Yes, financial entities of any nation can do so.
I was unaware that you could not buy a US corporation without opening your books. However, the Lenovo case shows that it’s possible to get around that rule.
Not a rule but processes. Lenovo passed the scrutiny of the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States. How good is that scrutiny I don’t know but then I’m a most libertarian fellow who counts little on the efficacy of government.
Do you object as well of the sale of IBM’s hard drive business to Hitachi?
For example, could China buy Chrysler Group? Could they buy, say, Cadillac and Chevrolet from General Motors? Could they buy the Macintosh and iPod lines from Apple (leaving Filemaker)? Could they buy the Purina animal foods businesses?
If there are willing sellers and buyers then the deal can be done pending satisfaction of whatever rules are in play. SEC rules, for instance.
Could Chinese companies buy Rockefeller Center as a Japanese company did?
If they’d like to lose money on the deal as did the Japanese buyer.
Re Paul Choate, well, Japan is a small country; and they were challenged by their lack of natural resources, size, and built in financial issues. China, on the other hand, is a HUGE country, and while I’m sure they’ll encounter similar setbacks, they are now probably more advanced in trade surplus than Japan has ever been - correct me if I’m wrong - with daily growth.
Japan was the small country with the second largest economy in the world. As per Choate, et al, Japan Inc. was going to buy up the U.S. and the world.
China is a huge country with a huge, restless, impoverished population. The Chinese banking system is said to be more a house of cards than was the Japanese banking system.
You don’t seem to have any particular point to make. Should the U.S. conquer the world so to impose your desired outcomes?
Curtis Redcap,
WTF?
I hope that wasn’t directed at me as I can’t begin to decipher the thing.
And you left out Jekyll Island and the Bilderbergers. And the Coconut Grove. Or is that the Bohemian Grove? Whatever Grove it is where the Bushes turn into lizards.
Dom, I don’t understand your logic either. Are you saying we shouldn’t care about China’s massive, massive trade surplus because - even though you say they have nothing to buy other than our debt - they can buy anything they want, just about, but since we can buy it too, it doesn’t matter? And where does George Soros come in? Are we finding liberals under the mattress now?
DOM,
WTF??? W T F ???? Is this the level you resort to?
Libertarian…….
And BTW, NO it wasn’t for you.
Comprehension being the larger part of reading.
I thought this had gone the way of the bit bucket.
Are you saying we shouldn’t care about China’s massive, massive trade surplus because - even though you say they have nothing to buy other than our debt - they can buy anything they want, just about, but since we can buy it too, it doesn’t matter?
You seem to be cursing the skies. I can’t discern what it is you want done.
China, as it were, can, if they follow the rules, open their own car factories in the US. Or in Mexico, Canada or Brazil. They can do so on their own or in collaboration with US, European or Japanese carmakers. Is there something we can do about that? Is there something we should do about that? If so then what?
Should we channel Smoot and Hawley for advice?
And where does George Soros come in? Are we finding liberals under the mattress now?
Soros has taken a large stake in Halliburton. I wish we were finding liberals and not Liberals.
If you object to a Soros reference then what were the gratuitous Reagan and Halliburton references about?
Curtis,
My apologies for any offense.
Hmmm. Here’s the owners of US debt. Currently $8.5 trillion.
$4 trillion US Gov’t (Social Security etc)
$644 billion: Japan
$350 billion: China
Then UK ($239 Billion), OPEC ($100 billion), etc.
Also - state/local govts, $467 billion; people, $423 billion; pensions, $319 billion; mutual funds, $243 billion; savings bonds, $206 billion; etc.
Those are awesome figures. HOW MUCH?? WOW! So, in effect, we, the people, counting all the collective figures, actually own more debt than the world does, and potentially are the source of our own downfall @ One Trillion, 658 Billion……. mind boggling.
And DOM, thank you, none taken.
National debt, 1992: $4 trillion
National debt, May 1, 2000: $5.7 trillion
National debt, March 2007: $8.5 trillion
The national debt first hit $1 trillion in 1981. It was $2.6 billion in 1988.
Other landmarks:
$200 million, 1944
$258 million, 1945
$252 million 1949
$303 million, 1962
$500 million mark, mid-1975
$845 million, 1979
PS> Soros taking a stake in Halliburton: well, he knows how to make money, all right. But it was Dick Cheney and George Bush who turned Halliburton from bankruptcy to a money machine with billions in unsupervised funding - making darned sure no accountants investigated where the war money went.
Oh, national debt as a % of GDP: 90% when Truman took over; 72% when he left office. Ike dropped it to about 55%.
Kennedy and LBJ to about 40%. Nixon and Ford kept it similar as did Carter; it fell a bit during the reign of all three (by staying the same as inflation took over), ending their terms at 35%. Reagan and Bush raised it to about 65%; Clinton dropped it back down; Bush raised it back up. This is all assuming the data on the following web page is correct, which may be a poor assumption since it’s apparently a political site (though to be fair it lambasts Democrats and Republicans alike). I have no connection with the site; it came up first on a Google search. http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
Hmmm, indeed. Social Security is a nice shell game. When they collect more in taxes than they pay out in benefits, they send the surplus to the Treasure in turn for IOUs (Treasury Bills). The Treasury spends that surplus on current needs while SS counts the IOUs as a fund.
The IOUs are not a fund but a claim on future general revenue from taxes. So, future Social Security benefits will be paid from both FICA taxes and general revenue (Income taxes).
No wonder that young people are beginning to look favorably upon euthanasia.
Social Security is both, and it would be no problem to fix it and fund it for a hundred years with very minor changes.
Whoa…. wait, too many shells and obtuse hand movements to track where the “pea” went in all the smoke and mirrors that is laughingly called a “budget.”
Not to be forgotten is your friendly, neighborhood Federal Reserve Bank, with billions and billions of freshly printed paper notes, just straining to pop out into circulation. Just in case the DOD needs another squadron of F-22s or an Aircraft Carrier or two. Don’t bother with health care or the VA however. Much like the Dept of Labor that is supposed to protect the walking wounded civilian workers….. uh-huh!
Social Security used to be the ultimate barrel for taking the pork from, receiving far more than it gave way. Ol’ FDR knew this going in, savvy political fox that he was. However, I hardly could believe that he had an inkling of what he created would end up like in the times today. It could and MUST be fixed with a permanency to end all the political wrangling over all those “left over” dollars coming in every week. I believe Dave is correct, however, in stating it could be fixed fairly easily, if the political intestinal fortitude could be found in Washington D.C.
As for euthanasia, perhaps we just save that for “injection” into any politician that servers beyond the point that they lose sight of their function and turn into members of the “club” leaving their constituents as afterthoughts. Term limits comes to mind. But, that got euthanasized long ago.