The sale of Chrysler in depth (updated 5-16 pm)
Cerberus took ownership of about 80% of Chrysler Group, including Chrysler Financial, in return for a guaranteed investment, assumption of liabilities as well as assets, and a token payment that appears to be less than the transaction and sale costs. The deal was incredible, considering that Chrysler + Chrysler Financial appeared to be running at a net profit for most of the recent past, and the terms appear to reflect leaked statements by DaimlerChrysler board members (and public statements from stockholders) to the effect that Chryler was less than worthless.
The details: Cerberus pays $7.4 billion, $5 billion of which goes to Chrysler Corporation LLC and $1.05 billion to Chrysler Financial Services; Daimler gets the remaining $1.35 billion, but loans back $400 million of it. Daimler retains all debt from Chrysler Group, costing Daimler a net $650 million plus prepayment compensation of $878 million and transaction costs. Chrysler’s pension fund is currently overfunded but the health care costs are a major issue. Closing of the deal is expected in the third quarter of 2007.
The five key reasons for choosing Cerberus were "a sustainable, successful future for Chrysler; minimal risks and liabilities for Daimler in the future; the certainty of the transaction; speed; and the value of the transaction." Other reasons suggested by Allpar readers include being able to keep a chunk to continue to profit from Chrysler; realization that Mercedes would never integrate money-saving Chrysler technologies, outside of certain assembly processes adopted early on; that Mercedes was unwilling to share any current technology, and that Mercedes-priced components and architectures made cars below the $30,000 level uneconomical; needing the cash; wanting to be free from the health-care liabilities; and realizing that Daimler was completely unable to run Chrysler, any more than BMW was able to run Rover.
Chrysler does owe Dieter Zetsche a debt of gratitude. It would have been easy for him to continue in the footsteps of Juergen Schrempp, and to keep squeezing and downsizing and perhaps acquiring new companies to squeeze and downsize and merge together. It may also have been easy for him to sell Chrysler for more cash – for example, to Kirk Kerkorian (not that we can say for sure whether that would have been bad, especially as Kirk was talking employee ownership and has Jerry York on his side). But we suspect that he actually protected Chrysler as much as he could, given his possibly tenuous status at DCX – with Juergen Schrempp & Co still very much active on the Board – and did try to create a soft landing.
What Daimler gets out of the deal
DaimlerChrysler can change its name to Daimler AG (what happened to Benz?) and run their bus, van, and car companies without distraction, while raking about 20% off of Chrysler’s profits. At the same time, Mercedes’ dependence on Chrysler for volume discounts and royalties on less than ideal parts can continue for the near term, at least; joint purchasing and drivetrain development will continue, and no doubt Chrysler will keep paying royalties for five-speed transmissions while Mercedes will get free access to next-generation V6 engines. A Joint Automotive Council of board members from each company will be established so both sides can decide on new and current projects.
The new company
An affiliate of Cerberus, Chrysler Holding LLC, will own 80.1% of Chrysler Holding LLC, while Daimler will own 19.9%. Chrysler Holding LLC includes Chrysler Corporation LLC and Chrysler Financial Services LLC. Tom LaSorda, Eric Ridenour and Tom Sidlik will leave the Daimler Board of Management, which will go down to six members.
Cerebrus gets a company with a history of profitability, next-generation technology waiting to be implemented, some of the world’s most advanced, flexible auto plants, a huge number of dedicated, experienced, intelligent employees, and the consistently-profitable former Chrysler Credit (which may actually have a surprise loss soon due to a number of less than ideal loans in the recent past), all for agreeing to put reasonable sums of money into their own businesses and for making a relatively small payment to Daimler.
Unfortunately, the downsizing plan is still in effect, cutting over 400,000 vehicles per year and closing at least one factory (as well as investing in others). This will increase the percentage of cash paid to retirees vs current employees; there will be fewer vehicles sold and fewer people working per retiree.
Some reasons we’re happy Daimler will be history
The problem with Chrysler since 1998 has been running the company for the benefit of Mercedes, not for the benefit of DaimlerChrysler as a whole. Getting out from Daimler is unquestionably a plus; Chrysler has been cut to a third of their prior size and have been constrained in what they can make. The question is never "what would make a good profit," it’s "what can Mercedes use and what can use Mercedes parts" (with a huge dose of “no, that might take away Mercedes sales.” Money was spent on a Crossfire replacement when we need a Neon replacement, and building the LX and JS to Mercedes architectures no doubt increased their weight and cost. The Mercedes five-speed automatic is more expensive and less reliable and lower performing than the ZF automatic, from what I’ve been told – not to mention Chrysler’s own five-speed truck automatic, which is eminently usable on cars (having been developed from the ancient TorqueFlite).
Though (as of May 16, 2007) we’re sure there are plenty of strings attached to this deal, Chrysler will be run by people who want to make money, not transfer profits to another division’s budget line and pretend they’re losing money, as it appears Daimler has been doing. Just as you wouldn’t want Toyota to make the Corolla a downsized Lexus LS, you don’t want the Sebring to be a downsized S-Class just to lower the component costs of the S-Class. That’s one of the things that killed GM – according to DeLorean anyway – was when they lowered Caddy and Olds costs by making Chevy and Pontiac accommodate them. Yes, it lowered the total number of parts in inventory, and yes, it made parts cheaper for Caddy and Olds, but it also made Chevys and Pontiacs too heavy and expensive to make!
Another good thing to come out of this is, hopefully, the removal of the German (and American!) "cost-cutting experts" who have made Chrysler’s cars less competitive. Maybe Chrysler can start to add back in all those things that made their vehicles special to their owners – things like comfortable seats and windshield wiper de-icers for minivans, not to mention four-cylinder engines that produce some torque at low rpm. One particular rapid cost-cutter is certain to remain in Stuttgart. And we’re probably not going to see any more "German engineering" ads!
Reason for hope
We have reason to hope. Perhaps Wolfgang Bernhard does know how to do something other than slash jobs, close factories that later turn out to be needed, and make specialty sports cars. Tom LaSorda might be a pretty good leader when his leash is taken off; he’s getting to be well liked, at least. We know that Chrysler still has many good, dedicated engineers, and we also suspect that many employees will work much harder for an independent, American Chrysler than for an amorphous, money-sucking, abusive DaimlerChrysler.
I think anyone with the cash to buy Chrysler would be nuts not to, and that they don’t need to strip the company to turn a quick profit – particularly if they plan to resell when the record profits return.
There’s not much left to cut, anyway. They could sell factories, but there’s only one plant that’s underused right now; the others are all very much needed. Even the under-used plant could be used to build the cars they need to be selling, the Corolla/Neon class that was abandoned in favor of the cute-ute Compass/Caliber/Patriot. The basic research departments were decimated by Daimler already. Anything they cut now would just eliminate their profits later, unless they plan to move everything to China, and that’s been turning out to be less than ideal lately – a short-sighted strategy if ever there was one (not unlike Daimler’s providing Hyundai with the one key technology, engines, they needed to become a real threat).
The Players
Cerberus has profited from its ties to key Republicans, and in one case, a timely $110,000 donation to suspect congressman Jerry Lewis was almost instantly rewarded with the renewal of a controversial $1 billion contract and the firing of US Attorney Carol Lam fired, who was investigating Lewis’ contributors (presumably including Cerebrus). Steven Feinberg himself is a "paper guy," who rose up through the ranks of the buy-and-sell Wall Street crowd.
Cerberus appears to have set itself up as a member of the “pay to play” politically-based contracts game; Dan Quayle is in charge of European operations, and the chair of the company itself is former Republican Treasury secretary John Snow. But that doesn’t mean they’ll hire some ex-Party hack to run Chrysler; we need not fear seeing Randy "Duke" Cunningham or Mark Foley in the President’s chair. The moral concerns we have about Cerebrus (and for that matter the "all that matters is short-term profit" reputation of some private equity firms) do not necessarily affect their ability to run Chrysler, and in any huge company, there can be some highly moral and some highly immoral divisions. A few bad apples doesn’t necessarily poison the entire farm, and it’s a huge farm.
There’s even a lighter side to the political machinations. They might be able to buy Chrysler some military contracts for Jeep and Dodge trucks; and they are putting serious money into the company. What’s more, they are getting Chrysler Financial in the deal, which should make Chrysler profitable without slashing.
Tom LaSorda is reportedly to remain CEO, but Wolfgang Bernhard, the slash-and-burn, flashy Mercedes man, will most likely be running the show from behind the scenes. On the lighter side, Bernhard is "a car guy," which might mean more enthusiasm for the company; on the darker side, there is no reason to believe he is steeped in Chrysler history or has any better ability to run a mass-market automaker than DCX did. Though Chrysler might see Firepowers and Tomahawks, it might not see the Reliants and Spirits that sold in huge numbers (or, in modern terms, Corollas and Camrys), and it can’t keep the factories running with exotics.
Also in Cerberus’ stable is David Thursfield, who ran Ford’s highly successful operations outside the Americas before joining Cerebrus in 2004.
Cerebrus does appear to have a record of turning companies around and being in the game for the long run; they’ve sometimes been contrasted to the standard slash-burn-flip private-equity firms. Cerebrus already owns 51% of GMAC Financial Services and is buying out Tower Automotive, a parts supplier; it also owns Guilford Mills, a large American auto-seat supplier in the U.S., and Peguform Group, a German auto-plastic maker.
If you know more about Cerebrus and the players, please post it here in the comments.
An alternative that might have pushed DCX to go faster
Even as Cerebrus was buying Chrysler, Kirk Kerkorian was apparently meeting with the plant workers in Toledo who wanted to take Chrysler over in an employee buyout. They would have raised investment funds using Kerkorian and the sale of stock to buy Chrysler from Daimler. The plan was moderately far advanced, but it appears that Daimler would never have agreed to sell to the employees, Kerkorian, or both, and the UAW and CAW provided no support for the plan, preferring to back the private equity firms (even Magna was working with a private equity firm, albeit one with a solid reputation).
Looking to the future
Chrysler is likely to do much better under Cerebrus than under Daimler. New products should be lighter and cheaper to build without the need to build to Mercedes specifications, and without the need (at least on future vehicles) to use Mercedes components even when they are sorely outclassed by cheaper ones. The horrific German Engineering ads which decimated sales will disappear, and Chrysler will not be publicly criticized and dragged into the dirt by their new owners. The anonymous leaks from Mercedes directors on how terrible Chrysler is (ignoring the fact that Mercedes gets lower quality rankings in just about every survey) will end, and the stigma of owning a Chrysler will fade. We hope, incidentally, that in addition to the destruction of the myriad of DaimlerChrysler signs, that by 2009 we will see the first new Plymouth rolling down the lines.
We are much more optimistic than we were before we started to investigate Cerberus; at that point, the chief issues that popped up were the sleazier aspects of the company. As we delved deeper, though, it seemed more and more that Cerberus succeeds not by strip-and-flip but by rebuilding companies that have been terribly managed. Chrysler has been terribly managed for most of its life.
We are disappointed Canada did not finally get its own auto company, but it’s good to have Chrysler back on American soil. Maybe with all the government connections Cerebrus has, Chrysler can even get a nice fat military contract and start building Army vehicles again. We just hope they never bring up any controversy – that they do what they did in the 1940s, not what Cerebrus did in the 21st Century.
Being an American company again means that if they DO go public again, their stock will be purchased by index funds again, and that’ll be good for an instant boost.
Only the future will tell us what will happen with Chrysler, and that future is still far off, in the third quarter – and we might not know what’s really in store until 2008. Let’s hope it’s good news and not bad news. I, for one, think it would be hard, though not impossible, for Cerebrus to be worse than Daimler.
Also read: DaimlerChrysler era editorials
May 16 update
According to a source at Chrysler Group, Tom LaSorda, Dieter Zetsche, and Cerberus managers (including CEO Steve Feinberg) met with senior management last night to clarify the future. The name of the company will be Chrysler Holdings; the Pentastar will be the corporate logo again, saving a considerable glazing fee for the Chrysler Technical Center. Tom LaSorda seemed very excited to be free from Daimler; Dieter on the other hand was bittersweet, saying that his years at Chrysler were the best years of his career and his life. He said he realized that the differences between Mercedes and Chrysler made real integration impossible, and that both had to do what they did best. The two companies will continue to share items like diesel engines, 4×4 components, hybrids and fuel cells, and electronics.
Steve Feinberg called his company a blue-collar capital investment firm that stresses long term growth, calling Chrysler a once in a lifetime opportunity and saying he wanted Cerberus to have the legacy of helping Chrysler to flourish. He did not provide a clear role for Wolfgang Bernhard, who was present, and said he would quickly trade in his Chevy pickup for a Ram. He did not see any vertical integration with Cerberus suppliers. He also noted that naming the company after the dog-guard of Hell was a huge mistake.
Questions we’ve been asked
What will this mean for Dodge Motorsports? Answer: we don’t know. I personally hope it means the NASCAR money goes into bringing back Plymouth or Viper racing or something else that isn’t professional wrestling.
Will they bring back Plymouth? Will the make the ‘Cuda and Imperial? Answer: I don’t even know if they know! Plymouth is certainly a long shot, even long-term. I don’t think they people there necessarily understand or care about Chrysler’s history and what has worked before.
Will they make the Dodge Challenger? Answer: yes, it’s too far advanced to be playing with now.
Will they sell Sprinters and Ram 4500s? Answer: I don’t see why not; after all, GM sold Toyotas for quite a while, and Chrysler sold Mitsubishis. Ford still sells modified Mazdas and Volvos.
Dave:
I know the politics of Cerberus irk many. However, almost all companies have chosen “side” in politics, so regardless of who was the new master, somebody would have been politically displeased.
Good things about Cerberus. They do get out of the way. They may play with the management team in place, but they do not get personally involved in their acquisitions.
Chrysler Holdings LLC will be a PRIVATE organization — no shareholder meetings, no quarterly pressure on reports, etc. Cerberus (and other private equity companies) use this to allow management to focus on the core business and long-term strategies. That should translate into better brand identities (creating a legacy for each brand) and continuation of the development of flex manufacturing.
Cerberus will also own Dollar-Thrifty Group (via another acquisition), the major fleet buyer of Chrysler Group vehicles. This vertical integration will be interesting to watch if it can be tried differently than when Chrysler owned Dolllar-Thrifty.
Absolutely watch for Chrysler to make a move for military contracts. A strong Jeep and Dodge Truck brand should be a great fit for military procurement (although I have read that the Dodge Truck Group will remain a large part of Daimler).
These are interesting times for Chrysler, but I think the Cerberus buyout may be the best thing to happen to Chrysler in the last 20 years.
I ALMOST JUMPED OFF MY CHAIR THIS MORNING:
When i heard at the radio that Chrysler was Free Again, but in less than a second i fould fear in my heart when hearing CERBERUS was the new GUY, i know most of us if not ALL are happy that Daimler will be left behind, how ever this new leader, could not be much better, perhaps it can´t be any worst, but that does not mean it would be better, I dont know what to expect, im just reading and bitting my nails.
Agreed. Daimler had to go. I just hope we didn’t just go from the frying pan into the fire.
I am full of hope of a brighter future. We’ll see if it comes to pass…
Since Cerberus in lore is the three-headed hell hound, someone at Huffington Post suggested that Daimler had now crossed the River Styx. :)
I think the sale of Chrysler to Cerberus is ultimately positive news and while we’re not guaranteed that Chrysler will return to it’s glory days, there is certainly a light at the end of the tunnel.
As you’ve pointed out in your blog, Cerberus has a few black marks against them regarding their political dealings and other ethics but does that mean they’re any different than the rest of Corporate America (or the capital world for that matter)? Afterall, 9 years ago we were sold on a “Merger of Equals” and looked what the true meaning of that was.
I see things as either turning around for the positive relatively quick or getting very negative. Cerberus’ intentions seem to be that they intend to return the company to profitability. That’s a great sign to me. While that may change, that is the message they’ve been sending at present. I get the impression that they realize they have a key player in the US auto industry in their portfolio and can repoise the company to be an even bigger player. The opposite would be them taking it over, cutting out everything and everything they can and selling a very lean brand or two to another company. Cerberus’ being responsible for pensions and benefits means they will have at least some accountability.
I am also sure that there is probably some part of the agreement that will make Chrysler semi-dependant on some Mercedes’ technologies but I don’t see a privately held firm agreeing to that without looking to see if there are better alternatives. For instance, transmissions… When someone says “We’re paying X for these Mercedes Trannies but we have a design that was scuttled before but can be built for less, will be more reliable and result in better fuel economy.”, someone in management will be listening. That, again, is because they need Chrysler to succeed. In the previous marriage, so long as the big company’s bottom line was in the green, it was easy to dump on Chrysler and make Mercedes look good. Now Chrysler’s bottom line is its own bottom line and you can bet your you-know-what that Cerberus isn’t going to be playing around to make another one of their brands look good.
Being privately held will further eliminate the pressure to report strong numbers on a monthly or quarterly basis in favor of putting forward a long-term plan that will result in continued profitability. This could certainly result in initiatives to reduce Chrysler’s dependancy on light trucks in favor of smaller, more fuel efficient cars. Looking at consumer-behaviors, it’s easy to see why Chrysler, despite constant warnings of a fuel crunch, continued to rely on trucks. If they’re cheaper to develop and produce more profit, well, roll the dice and hope gas prices aren’t too high and you should have an ok quarter which is good on Wall Street. Such shortsightedness may seem foolish to the average Joe but.. if you look at how much more successful Chrysler had been than its Detroit rivals in recent history it kept them looking positive until the 2/14 bomb fell. Cerberus won’t be placing bets on how the stock market will react to its decisions. Instead, it can focus the right, long-term plan, even if it means jumping a few initial obstacles.
We may also see some more quality improvements. Afterall, there is much less of a safety net with the new company. So if maybe that MB tranny is still cheaper up front, it might be more expensive long-term. If warranty repairs drive the cost of that tranny up or are deemed to have such negative perception issues that it’s hurting sales, then it may make more business sense to invest in an alternative. Again, the previous mindset was “Let’s use it to build more Mercedes brand awareness. Say Chrysler has a better car because of Mercedes technology. And yes there are problems with it, but we’ll get the sales boost up front, and can try to fix the problem later or in the next generation so long as Mercedes looks good.” New management isn’t going to give a damn about the Mercedes image. New management won’t be caring so much about meeting this quarter’s numbers if it means a bigger problem to fix the next 3 quarters. They are going to want consistent, repeatable positive results.
There is also the opportunity for many synergies between Cerberus-owned companies. For instance, GMAC and Blue-Bird busses. There may be the potential there for something down the road. Maybe not. What’s to say that there isn’t the chance for Cerburus to pick up Mitsubishi down the road and roll it into Chrysler considering their history? That’s more far-fetched but the point is, we now have a Chrysler being managed by individuals with one focus: profitability. That means any and all decisions that are made regarding how the company does business, and who they do business with, will be based on Chrysler becoming a profitable entity now and in the future. No more using it as a tool to make Mercedes look better.
And as for Dieter, I think he made the right decision. My impression is that he is a smart guy and knows cars. When he went to Chrysler, he was able to make it work for quite some time as he knew how to handle things in Germany and learned about Chrysler quickly. However, I think it was only a matter of time and he moved out and up at the right time before things ultimately took a plunge. I am willing to bet that while he is the head of Daimler AG and oversees Mercedes, his cutting Chrysler was the smartest decision. Would the board and German shareholders be willing to accept him coming in and saying “Chrysler does many things better than us and we need to follow their lead”, he’d be on the outside looking in very fast. In his announcement, he eluded to how Chrysler was a mass-market brand and Mercedes a premium brand. Thats how the Germans view now and have in the past and he realizes there is nothing he could do to change that.
One final observation is that this could bode well for all of the Plymouth fans out there. A new Chrysler is going to need to be efficient to survive. It’s also going to want to grow as much profit-generating revenue as possible. Additionally, economies of scale are going to come into play even more. Mercedes wanted Chrysler to buy their parts so they could produce more, cheaper, further creating more profits for every Benz that was sold. Well, now that Chrysler is once again at the top of it’s own foodchain, having a Plymouth, or entry-level brand in place to help mass produce parts and keep factories churning may be in the cards down the road. Daimler did help push the Chrysler Marque upscale somewhat (though it obviously was holding it back). What’s to stop the new Chrysler from trying to drive it further upscale? Sell a few less cars but with a much higher profit margin while selling a ton of Plymouths that are making less profit but further driving other costs out of the business.
In the end though while there are a lot of things that can happen, I think it’s overall, very positive news that the DaimlerChrysler marriage is over, due to irreconcilable differences and Chrysler is once again AN AMERICAN COMPANY!
Let’s not overlook the less than obvious. In its zeal to get rid of Chrysler, Daimler just made itself a nice, fat, juicy publicly-traded takeover target. Paging Carlos Goshn? Good luck Daimler, you’re not out of the woods yet. Not by a long shot…..
There’s a difference between making political contributions in general and making very specific ones intended to get a much-criticized contract renewed… and of course hiring hack politicians to get them onto the letterhead … I acknowledged that this happens with both parties, though one in particular has been rather brazen lately. The Big Three have generally been on the same poltical side, but without the particular issues involved in the Jerry Lewis scandal, (which is why it was a scandal and not business as usual.) That said, this could very well help Jeep’s military aspirations, if they can get a vehicle that meets / beats specs.
No matter what, the chances of Chrysler getting the Daimler monkey off its back are almost too good to be be believed. Stuttgart milked it for all it was worth, just about driving a great AMERICAN company into the ground while little was known about ACTUAL dollar doings due to byzantine federal German financial practices. Now, can the revived Chrysler Corporation head-hunt those car guys back from GM where they ran to when the takeover first occurred? If so, maybe the projected loss of American labor might just be staved off due to better sales when the again-feisty and tough Chryco rolls the American Road as in days of old. (Yeah, I know. I’m an optimist.)
Has there been any indication as to the name of the “new” Chrysler Company?
Yes, Chrysler Holding (or Holdings, in their press release they said “Holding”) which will own Chrysler Corporation, LLC and Chrysler Financial, LLC.
Well, I guess we will have to take a wait and see attitude…if Chrysler finally gets back to profitability, maybe we’ll see some great cars come out the factory front door…personally, I think we should bring back someting like the Omni and Aries/Reliant K’s…they were great, reliable, cheap cars, but I won’t hold my breath any time soon.
I think this is a wonderful new beginning. Chrysler has been through alot with Diamler and now their seperated, things will start to look up for them (Chrysler).
I agree that the “merger of equals” didn’t quite measure up for either side,but I hope that Cerberus has learned and looked hard at the outcome. Being privately owened now should be just what it takes for Chrysler to get back on it’s feet.
Even though it’s going to be sometime before we see an outcome of the merger and finally see some turn around, I eagerly await what’s next for Chrysler. Positive things abound, I’m sure things will finally come to pass and Diamler AG will get the recongintion it deserves.
Keeping my fingers crossed here………..
On a side note; on one of the Forum threads someone opined that part of why the Chrysler Group interiors have become so, uh, ‘bland’ is to avoid intramural competition with Mercedes Group.
For some odd reason……….the above rings too true for comfort.
I have a wait and see attitude, but otherwise I’m incredibly relieved to know Chrysler is an American car company again. I hope that the new people really take a long look at what went wrong and start making cars people want to buy again especially fuel efficient entry level cars. Now would be a good time to revive Plymouth with that in mind. It’s a bit like waking up from a long nightmare, just hope that things get vastly better over the long haul. Emphasis on long haul!
I have worked for Chrysler dealers here in Canada for 27 years. And today I sighed a great sigh of relief after hearing the news of the sale of Diamler Chrysler. Not since the late seventies have I felt this much relief that Chrysler was sliding into oblivion. But know that Diamler will be gone there is really some hope that the company can get a new footing and get back to the buisness of producing marketable cars for the North American Market. Since 1998 when Dailmer bought the then Chrysler Corporation I have loathed mercedes and there money Sucking ways.As many people have
said they took over Chrysler Corporation to use and abuse the money and Profitability for their own money losing Mercedes Divisions. So I still look at todays happenings as being a good first step on the way to getting back to work and making some money for this awesome Car company that I have put so much time and energy into. I say good luck to the new Chrysler Corporation LLP.
“such as no dropping the less-than-stellar five-speed automatic from the LX”
“Chrysler is likely to do much better under Cerebrus than under Daimler. New products should be lighter and cheaper to build without the need to build to Mercedes specifications, and without the need to use Mercedes components even when they are sorely outclassed by cheaper ones”
Don’t these two comments contradict each other? If Chrysler is able to choose parts without needing to use/adapt for Mercedes parts, wouldn’t that include transmissions as well?
So, will the “new” Chrysler once again use the Pentastar as a corporate logo? I like the fact that since the mid-’90s, each division has had their own logo, but I think the Pentastar is one of the best unused logos out there. It would be great to see it again for the company as a whole, although I think that, since this Chrysler isn’t exactly a return to the original Corporation (R.I.P), they need it in a new color, something other than the traditional blue.
I am really relieved! After hearing all of the morbid possibilities mentioned on automotive TV shows, I’m really relieved. Maybe there is a chance Chrysler might pull off another rags to riches story. I have a feeling there are a lot of pent-up ideas waiting to see daylight. Hmm, I wonder if Chrysler can drop the Smart 4-2? It always made me nervous, and just dosen’t have enough going for it to be a reliable success after the 1st year.
It just so happens that today is my Birthday.
Hearing the news this morning, was the best kind of birthday wish I could ask for.
A Chrysler being run for profit, and hopefully with a free hand to act on it’s own behalf.
I know this is a long shot, But with fuel prices on everyones mind, Perhaps the powers that be, might consider that with various State & Federal grant programs, pushing for alternate fuels, and Chrysler products mated with diesel engines & powertrains Planned for European Markets, An independent Chrysler, might be able to use that$$ from grants, towards bio diesel, manufacturing & distribution Perhaps even use the vast dealership network, as a sales point for “green or alternate fueling locations, This would provide an excellent opportunity for dealers to gain cash flow daily, and get people on the lot, I don’t know what will happen with the bluetec engines, But if someone with a true sense of vision,in the Company could grab this and run with it. I’ll bet it takes on a very healthy life of its own.
Perhaps I will see it before my next birthday!
The hope is they WILL be able to drop the five-speed, the string is they might not be able to do it for a while, but for new cars…
I have the same feeling as Patrick Lynch and Mike Reed. It is a happy day, for sure. It is a day many Mopar fans can breathe a sigh of relief that the Biggest Mistake in Chrysler’s history is over. That said, it is best to be cautiously optimistic. I’m not a big fan of Cerberus mostly because of its history and because Wolfgang is involved, but this has to be better than staying with Daimler. And being an American company again is a great thing as well, although, this is no where on the same level of being Walter P. Chrysler’s company that died in 1998. At least my strong dislike for DCX and for the current Chrysler products can take a little rest from the doom and gloom I’ve been feeling all these years.
I’ll guess we’ll wait and see what Cerberus does. The ball (unfortunately) is in somebody else’s court and Chrysler will have to follow its new owners’ wishes. I wish it could be different, but that is what it is.
Chrysler getting fully global was not a bad plan for Daimler, the bad plan was Underscore so much Chrysler Brands, and Make Chrysler HAUL lots of costs, but if Cerberus keeps the World Wide Attitude, refreshing models interiors as a first step, and makeing money with the Financial Services from day ONE, we as Chrysler could become America´s Big Dog, now that current is hurten badly.
I, for one, will miss the Germans and their attention to the details. Between the unions and the dim-witted plant managers, this company will continue it’s death spiral. I just hope the MQAS system finds an on-going fan in this new company. I want to retire without ever stepping foot in another plant again!
Too many Jeeps. Not Enough Plymouths. They have to get into the small car race to give people an alternative to all the junk out there which is over-priced. It is good to know that German engineering couldn’t figure out the American car buyer because it shows our independence. However, we do need to sell in this and every market which is feasable to ensure our company will survive. What will become of my beloved PTCruiser? Will there be another version in the future?
My thoughts – THANK GOODNESS THE MERGER FROM HE** IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can finally breath a sigh of relief knowing that this disaster of a “merger” has fallen completely on its face and is NOW considered a failure. Just think where Chrysler Corporation would be today if people would have been more pessimistic from the beginning and saw it for the failure that was it going to become.
I’m not thrilled with Cerberus buying Chrysler, but I guess it’s better than nothing (or Daimler). My only grave concern is that Wolfgang (a big time reminder of the merger) is going to be involved one way or another.
I like the optimism I’m hearing from the Mopar camp, but I hope it doesn’t turn to disappointment in a few years. I’m not that concerned about Cerberus tearing Chrysler to pieces if it does happen. That prospect no longer bothers me. If it happens, it happens.
I still have mixed feelings over this whole thing. On the one hand I wanted nothing more than to see Chrysler escape Daimler’s evil grasp and become its own company. On the other hand, I’ve become so indifferent to Chrysler and its products that I all of a sudden need to gain some enthusiasm toward them again. They’ve burned me too many times, but yet I feel the urge to come back to Mopar. I’ve written some nasty things about Chrysler over the last 8 or so years and have offended plenty of Mopar fans with my thoughts, but at the same time, I yearn to drive a new Mopar product. I just don’t know what to do because I’ve got a few future products (Shelby Mustang, Camaro convertible, and Lexus IS coupe) eyed for future purchases, so what do I do now? I’ve come to respect and admire Toyota, Honda, and GM at the expense of CG, so how do I come back to Mopar? At least this does give me the ability to walk into a Chrysler dealership and test drive the products again – I wasn’t about to touch their products under Daimler control.
I guess we’ll see. The long time of suffering is over, but it also means the long road to admiration for Chrysler is just beginning for me.
Unfortunately nothing has really changed. UAW labor costs are still insane, U.S. tax and trade laws still give foreign based companies a great advantage ove U.S. based companies. GM, Ford and Chrysler all still are bankrupt until U.S. laws change.
JGribin Enterprises, my company, considered making Daimler an offer in the bidding,… [edited out anti-Chrysler, anti-Allpar chat because we discovered that though JGribin owns a Mercedes C-Class, there does not appear to be any JGribin Enterprises.]
KOG – UAW labor costs are apparently the same paid by Toyota in the US. GM, Ford, and Chrysler will be at a disadvantage due to tax and trade laws, but that’s not necessarily bankruptcy material. They have advantages, too, y’know.
I am so glad you have quickly deduced that my company does not exist :)
You are, however, wrong. It was incorporated in 2003 with private money from several large bio-tech firms. I own 15% of it and manage it. It includes numerous small companies, mostly directed at innovative uses for injection-molding.
There was too much momentary noise at my home when a TV newscast that said the UAW was going to fight the breakaway tooth-and-nail and MAINTAIN the D-C status quo. I damn near died ! Anybody hear the real details?
As much as I’m glad that Chrysler is finally out from under Daimler control, I also know that it’s going to be a long way back and will take a few years. The thing is how do they hold on until the new stuff comes out? How long do they hold on to current models and vehicles that are already green lighted?
Considering how much some of DCX’s German investors and management hated Chrysler, this move is a good one…..at least short-term. If nothing else, it buys time and the resulting shake out of where the money has been going will prevent Mercedes et al from being propped up with Chrysler money. The shell game finally comes to an end.
Eventually though, Cerberus will have to make some tough decisions on product, personnel, and which plants are the most productive and profitable. Despite LaSorda’s letter saying layoffs aren’t planned beyond what has already been announced I can tell you with some certainty that won’t be the case. Costs need to be cut further and shedding employees is one element of that. I’d also bet you’ll see an increase in outsourcing and/or temporary workers a la Toyota to provide more flexibility in sizing the workforce based on product demand at any given plant.
It will be interesting to see if any short-term product line changes will be made, perhaps discontinuing slow sellers like the Magnum or delaying the launch of niche vehicles like the Challenger. I hope Cerberus doesn’t take as long to do that analysis as it took the Germans, thus delaying new product or enhancements to current products.
The most disappointing aspect of this deal is that Daimler will retain 19.9% ownership of Chrysler. I hope that doesn’t keep Chrysler in a shotgun marriage for parts/components that are either inferior or more expensive than the alternatives. It also hurts to thin that if Cerberus is successful at getting Chrysler back on track that the Germans will benefit from it when/if it IPOs.
Finaly….maybe now will see a few of thoes revolutionary concept cars that made chrysler famous in the auto shows.
I love a good gamble and this is certainly one hell of a crapshoot. With all of the speculative details aside, we are left with two distinct outcomes to this situation. That is, we are either on the brink of the biggest revitalization the American auto industry has ever seen, or we are about to witness the final, tragic chapter of what was the fabled Chrysler story.
Until we know Cerberus’ intentions we don’t really know what is going to happen. The only thing we know for sure about the group is that their sole purpose is to make a profit, and mark my words, they will make a profit. This will either come from the dismantling and subsequent auctioning off of the respective brands and holdings, or by a major, long term commitment to the auto maker.
I am naturally inclined to hope for the latter especially because of all the pluses the situation would bring. Not having to pander to stockholders and Wall Street analysts would give the new Chrysler a real chance to live up to it’s heritage. That is the building of reliable, beautiful, thoughtfully designed automobiles that not only inspire lust, but brand loyalty to a whole new generation to Mopar lovers.
With Daimler’s supposed commitment to all current development, Chrysler hopefully has enough product in the pipeline to provide an adequate transition period until brand new American designs show up on the assembly line. Nevertheless I can say this is the most excited I have been in a very long time with regard to the prospects of an American auto maker.
No matter what 2007 should be an interesting year.
the news put a smile on my face, and a shout of he** yea
Tension in the Belividere Plant today didn’t seem to be much of anything. I’m not sure if the workers don’t really care or if everyone expects a total flop and are just done worrying. I have new hopes especially after being displeased with my Caliber and SRT4. It’ll be nice to buy a non daimler vehicle with my favorite pentastar on it and maybe I can pick up something from them made with some pride yet again.
The evil “merger of equals” is dead! Take that Bob Eaton! Now back to having a true American Chrysler Corporation(LLC). No more Chrysler “Group”, awful German engineering commercials, or most importantly sending our money out of the US.
Chrysler was better before the Germans, and they, provided the free reign can do it again!
Something is up…….Cerberus is not gambling at all. The “bought” Chrysler to get their financial services- I woudn’t be suprised if the rest will be sold off to General Motors.
The work ahead of them is huge- I don’t see them willing to put in that much effort- they are all about quick profits. You heard it here first……..Cerebus will not be building cars.
Some thoughts: New name should be Chrysler AFM,(after f***ing mercedes!) The new owners ARE getting a motivated bunch of employees,we want to kick Diamler’s butt! The press,with Daimlers’ lead, have continually cast us as “financial burdens”. It is less than the truth,specially when you look back to the number of years Chrysler Group contributed greater profit than Mercedes. It is sad to admit that it did take Wolfgang and Dieter to “fix” us. We were known as “nepotism-motors” by some. There were great things.. Like the meeting in which Wolfgang asked why we had 34 part numbers for HORNS for ONE model year. He then asked why. He then asked…”how many ways are there to say BEEP?”
The Mercedes designed 5 speed transmission in the LX and JEEP product is better than what it replaced. The fact that the ones built at the Kokomo Indiana plant are of higher quality than the Stuttgart models is also great. The shame is that we can’t outsource the parts from some supplier other than the Mercedes one (can you say USA/Delphi?). I’ve seen 300C Convertibles, but sad to say we could not develop one as it would compete with our Mercedes brother to closely, now that has changed.The closing of the Newark, Delaware plant is not a bad thing, (Durango/Aspen assembly line), as that is also the property for the Newark Parts Depot. Now it can be expanded, as it is perfectly located by I-95, rail, and water. (That plant was originally building Sherman Tanks.) The real teller, though will be “FUTURE PRODUCT”. The industry works at such time-advance stages that we will need to SEE that Chrysler IS making INVESTMENT INTO FUTURE PRODUCT OUT PAST 2012. If you see that, then you can begin to feel that our new masters are really in it for the LONG HAUL. 39z
The unknown about Cerberus is the scary part of this deal. Are they just after Chrysler’s financial arm as some people suggest? Or are they serious about making a long term commitment to building cars and trucks profitably in America? I hope the latter. But I have a feeling there are going to be some painful moments for Chrysler employees and suppliers along the way. I just hope this doesn’t turn out to be the last gasp of Chrysler as it slips into the history books. For once I hope the company finally gets the chance it deserves to fulfill its potential as a world-class vehicle manufacturer.
First thing to do… BRING BACK THE PENTASTAR!!! This is the emblem that means Chrysler, Diamler hated it so much that they all but wiped it out, save for Mopar Restoration Parts. I would place one on every vehicle made, right where it belongs, on the fender behind the right front wheel. Thank god this 8 1/2 year nightmare is over!!!
Anyone hear any word on if Chrysler employees will continue to receive a discount on MB products considering the 20% ownership?
Why would you even consider a MB now???
That was exactly what I thought. I can’t believe ANY Chrysler employees would get a Mercedes after what they did to the company, never mind the quality problems.
I dont know, but this looks pretty darn good for Chrysler.
However, I do not want another K-car.
I look forward to buying my first new PLYMOUTH in many years. With any luck, it will be a BARRACUDA!
What the hell, the new Sebring IS more a Plymouth than a Chrysler, hopefully the new guys will open their eyes and realize that killing Plymouth was the single most idiotic thing that Daimler could have done, and they’ll move quickly to get an ‘09 line of Plymouths on the market.
I BET HE IS JUST BEING IRONIC … Dont you Dr. Dread?
Á bunch of Analysts are claiming variable future forecastings, and none of them are being clearely positive, aren´t those the same guys that TOLD us that DAIMLER CHRYSLER WILL BECOME THE LARGEST AUTOMAKER IN THE WORLD 5 YEARS AFTER THE MERGER?
I Lagh Out Loud at their Forecasts.
THE PENTASTAR! Yeah, I’m all for that. I’m surprised that Daimler’s German management didn’t have the pentastar window yanked out of the Technology Center and replaced with something else…..I’ll leave that to your imagination.
Putting a gold pentastar behind the right front wheel well would be a tribute to all those former Chrysler employees that were sacrificed along the way and can restore the slightly tarnished heritage of a soon-to-be-great-again company. Those “GM” badges that have appeared on their cars add a touch of class and a note of defiance that GM hasn’t succumbed to Toyota just yet. Let’s hope they never do.
Any word of what role, if any, that Wolfgang Bernhard might take in the “new” organization?
[...] Originally Posted by OliverK … let chrysler borrow engines, chassis, suspension/steering components, and then sell it for $7.5 billion. Actually, the borrowing of components was better for Mercedes because it allowed them to lower the costs of producing their cars while bringing up the cost of Chrysler’s cars. (Not something that is needed in the market Chrysler is in.) If Iacocca could/would come back, Chrysler would probably own the whole US market in a few years. Allpar Weblogs The sale of Chrysler in depth (updated 5-15) [...]
It was especially interesting to read that the Chrysler pension fund is extremely OVERfunded. The real cost issue to deal with is the healthcare expenses going forward for US employees.
Bringing Plymouth back seems highly unlikely and would serve no purpose except for nostalgia. Maybe DCX never should have axed it in the first place, but more divisions will not benefit the company now. GM proves every day the folly of all those divisions that compete with each other. There was a time when that structure made sense — and that time is past. Look at Toyota – 2 divisions handle it all. There is no market segment from entry level to near-luxury that Chrysler Corp LLC can’t cover. BUT, they need to stop competing with themselves first (e.g., Sebring and Avenger). For example, SUVs should belong to Jeep – period. From rugged trail riders to high-end luxury, Jeep can cover it. There is no reason for Dodge or Chrysler to have an SUV. Bringing back Plymouth would just cannabalize car sales from another division, most likely Dodge.
I think they should bring back Plymouth, just to show that Chrysler itself is BACK!
Plymouth should be the small car division of Chrysler, sold by all dealers. More Plymouth, less Jeep!
I also highly doubt Plymouth will come back, but I see the value in bringing it back. CNN Money has a great feature that is displaying the 12 Cars that made Chrysler
(http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0705/gallery.chrysler_history/3.html)
It has a great write up about the 1932 Plymouth PA which I think explains the importance of this brand. I know, I know… it is in the past, but when I read the articles about this car and Plymouth, I can’t help but think it was built under the same mindset and ideology of today’s Toyota and Honda. The thing these cars all have in common is that they were value-added car lines that any middle class citizen could buy and know it was going to be one heck of a car. I feel today’s Chrysler has nothing in the car segment that approaches or competes against Toyota and Honda. The Caliber doesn’t do it, nor does the Sebring and Avenger. They are simply unable to put a dent into the sales of those cars because the product offering is mediocre at best AND because Dodge and Chrysler are not the best brands to compete against mainstream brands like Toyota and Honda.
Chrysler should worry about Buick, Acura, and low level Lexus and Mercedes models. Chrysler should not have a product that sells for under $27,000 if it wants to have an entry-level luxury/luxury image. Frankly, the Chrysler brand’s engineering should be so outstanding that one would expect to pay a higher price.
If Chrysler handles higher markets, who will compete with the mainstream brands of Toyota/Honda/Hyundai? Dodge? Well, contrary to peoples’ thinking, Dodge is not positioned correctly to be a mainstream brand. Its bold in-your-face design doesn’t work too well in the mainstream market as evidenced by Dodge’s low car sales (in comparison to Honda, Toyota and others). Dodge does work well with the performance, in-your-face look, and is also a well known truck maker. Those are its strengths, not going after the average family.
That leaves a void where Plymouth could fit. A new Plymouth could offer flexibility and a new way of thinking that would push the whole corporation a notch higher. Right now, the Sebring and Avenger are priced in the same neighborhood, but don’t really offer anything different between the two. So… why not push the Chrysler sedan to an Acura TL/Lexus ES350 competitor, Dodge into the sport sedan role that it enjoyed with the Spirit R/T and which Mazda and Nissan do so well with their sedans, and let Plymouth handle the mainstream market?
These are my thoughts and opinions done only for discussion. In a perfect world I could see something like the above working, but in today’s environment I understand that it would be a very hard sell. That is why I don’t put much hope into my dreams (wishes) or all of the other dreams (wish lists) that I see on this site and others. There is a good possibility that this could be the very last chapter of Chrysler. If so, bringing back Plymouth, Imperial, Roadrunners, ‘Cudas, etc…. would be a moot point. It is best to remain calm and not get too excited for fear of having our hopes shot down in a ball of flames.
I think a lack of clear identity is the biggest problem for ALL divisions of ALL U.S. automakers, with the exception right now of Cadillac. Cadillac is the only make that seems to have a definite target audience in mind. Part of the reason the American auto industry is in the mess its in is because, over many years, they allowed their divisions to all lose their unique identities. Badge engineering has created the disaster that currently exists. Chrysler, certainly not alone in this, had probably one of the most flagrant examples of sharing models: 2 cars with the same name: Dodge/Plymouth Neon. They didn’t even pretend it was a different car (I guess that at least made them honest). For Chrysler Corp LLC to succeed, they need to decide exactly who they want to buy each make of car, and market to that segment. Chrysler Group certainly hasn’t been clear on that. It’s one thing to share a platform, another to put a new grille and slightly altered body panels on a car and call it a different model. The only way a “new” division would make sense is for every division to have a completely different market, with NO shared models. Keep in mind that, prior to DCX, Chrysler division sold a relatively low number of cars. If a new division was created, or even if Dodge was made more mass-market, it means they better be prepared to see Chrysler’s numbers drop again. Not necessarily bad for the company, if made up elsewhere, but it won’t make Chrysler divisional managers look good. Check out _Branding Iron_ by Charles Hughes and William Jeanes for an interesting look at brand identity, and who has done it well or poorly.
About time someone steps in, that is for Chysler, not Mercedes. Hope they bring back the Plymouth line, as I,m not a dodge Person. Would be nice to go and buy a new Plymouth, as I have always been a Plymouth man. My hope is that they can get rid of the Germans completly! Didn’t like the way the take over went anyway, seeing it was to be a merger.
In regards to the new acquisition of CHRYSLER by Cerebrus , this company also owns Remington Arms ,and they hasven’t gone belly up like that great old “Rifle mans Rifle ” Winchester Repeating Arms . I have a good feeling about My Chrysler Corp. I hope they Do resurrect Plymouth, And THEY build the IMPERIAL as an Automobile . Let Mercedes have to compete with that American Automobile . I have had Chrysler Prods. all my life, I have three at t5he present, A 2005 Chrysler T&C limited, a 2007 Dodge Caliber r/t awd, and the oldest, a 92 Dodge Stealth RT TT, , It is the most exspensive used car I have ever owned . I hope Dodge never teams up to produce a Turkey like this MoPars forever
The main reason you have shared models right now is that not all dealers carry the full line. You have stand alone Dodge dealers and also dealers that are Chrysler and Jeep. In fact in my area, there is still a stand alone Jeep dealer. If you are not going to share models then you have to make all dealers carry Dodge, Chrysler, and Jeep. This would mean forcing some dealers out. With the franchise laws in certain states, this would be a huge task.
Just to correct the record, Toyota has THREE automotive brands selling in North America, not two: Toyota, Scion and Lexus. Where GM and Chrysler (and to some extent Ford) went wrong in diluting seperate brand identities was taking badge engineering to the extreme. I think Chrysler is trying to fix that now by creating more visual diversity between Chrysler and Dodge vehicles. The Compass/Pariot and Caliber are another example. So different visually that I don’t recall anyone even bringing up the notion of badge engineering yet they share an awful lot of components. Even the Avenger and Sebring are significantly different when compared to the Spirit/Acclaim/LeBaron not so long ago or the Cobalt/G5 or Fusion/Milan today.
When the Neon was introduced, selling it as both a Dodge and Plymouth made a lot of sense based on how the dealer network was structured at the time. Now that so much consolidation has taken place and you have more instances of Dodges and Chryslers being sold under one roof it wouldn’t buy you much in terms of the number of outlets offering a particular vehicle.
I still believe that Plymouth has some potential much like Scion over at Toyota. The cost to resurrect the brand is probably staggering though. The problem I see today is that the Chrysler brand should be the “Lexus” offering, Dodge the “Toyota” and Plymouth the “Scion” and Jeep the “Jeep” icon it is. Instead, the Chrysler line-up is forced to offer vehicles at a Dodge price point rather than moving the brand upscale as has been talked about for years now. You could even make the case that even back in the Spirit/Acclaim/LeBaron days that the LeBaron was more upscale than the other two. Just like the Newport was “better” than the Fury/Polara. Today that would mean not offering ANY base 4-cyl Sebring models in favor of better equipped sedans and the uniqueness of the drop-top. (I’d call it a convertible but now with so many “top” options that just doesn’t seem appropriate anymore.) The base 300 shouldn’t exist under that scenario either, just the Touring, the C (Signature and Heritage too) and the SRT-8. We didn’t have a Chrysler variation of the Dart/Valiant or Coronet/Belvedere in the ’60s or ’70s complete with complete with Slant 6, three-on-the-tree and dog dish hub caps did we? Why undermine the Chrysler brand anymore now?
Meanwhile, while I’m sitting here speculating, the Cerberus people will be making the real decisions on how to proceed. Let’s hope they make wise choices.
I just thought of something else. What do think is going to become of the half-breeds like the Sterling Bullet and Dodge Sprinter? Who owns the new Sprinter plant, Cerberus or Daimler?
I can see the Bullet disappearing as fast as it came. The Sprinter on the other hand poses a bigger problem for Cerberus depending on who gets the plant in the divorce. Then again, the number of units we’re talking about is relatively small and I bet the margins are slim if not non-existent. If Daimler retains ownership of the Sprinter plant, I wonder if that means that Sprinters will go back to being sold only as Freightliners or possibly Fusos too. I doubt we’d see them sold here as Mercedes.
I completely forgot about Scion (thanks, Jim). I guess that means that either Toyota’s marketing of that division is terrible, or else incredibly focused, since I am definitely not in the target market for those cars. Given Toyota’s track record, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that it’s the latter. Let’s hope Chrysler Corp LLC can pinpoint their markets for each division that way. Regarding Brad’s comment (#57) that sharing models is done to help dealers who don’t carry the full line: the best way to help those dealers is to have focused, unique products so that someone who wants a Chrysler, for example, won’t find a Dodge satisfactory, and vice versa. Trying to please everyone isn’t a recipe for success. Auto marketing departments will tell you that you’ll be more successful with a car that 75% percent of the population hates, but 25% loves so much they *have to* have it, than a product that 75% think is “nice.” Emotion sells cars as much as anything else, and a “nice” car easily becomes someone’s third or fourth choice, instead of first. How many people actually buy their third choice car?
“And we’re probably not going to see any more “German engineering” ads!”
I was getting REALLY sick of those ads.
The retired pensioners should organize and take control of Chrysler. You would have some profit motivated people in charge then.
Actually, wasn’t kidding about the MB purchase as my wife had her heart set on one for when we go off lease next year. She won’t be getting one without a discount. I agree on bringing back Plymouth – use it for economy cars. I think the SMART cars are going to end up selling well here in the US in certain areas of the country.
One thing to always remember as this deal unfolds is that Cerberus exists to make money. They don’t exist to take a loss in the hopes of someday turning a profit building cars. They will have a strict plan and if the plan looks like it’s not going to work they may just sell the thing off. Anything in the auto manufacturing area is a gamble.
The proposal they make to the unions will be very interesting, as will be the unions’ reaction.
Pay no attention to the back slappin’ happy talk. Cerberus bought Chrysler to make money. One way or another, they’ll make money. Whether it’s the return to prominence of Chrysler Corporation or the scrapping of it for parts.
That said, obviously they do their homework and the dispersion of an American auto company would be very bad PR. If they didn’t think their plan would work, they wouldn’t have done it. It takes two to tango however, and the dance partner is the unions.
How about a Class Action Lawsuit against Daimler by the stockholders? Seems like a logical next step to me. This was misrepresented in it’s entirety from the start. The former corporation suffered massive losses under this takeover and this is just exemplified by the stockholders’ losses. I say take it back.
On the optimistic side, the way I figure it, they plan to make money in several ways.
1. Concessions on health costs, which the UAW can and should be giving, along with freezes on salaries. Even as a union supporter I think that’s reasonable given the huge number of existing or planned nonunion assembly plants, and competitiveness issues with China and Korea.
2. Using a rational leadership team that doesn’t have Mercedes’ best interests at heart.
3. Being American might help to regain some lost customers and may speed police adoption of the Charger.
4. Continuing the downsizing started by LaSorda and the Mercedes mercenaries.
5. Chrysler Financial. That’s the big element in this game that few are talking about. Though some bad loans were no doubt issued in the rush to clear out inventory, Chrysler Financial should, long term, be a huge money-maker. There were times when GM made massive profits based solely on GMAC.
6. A number of new vehicles are being introduced in the near future, including new crossovers, that might be quite popular. Then the new V6 engines will arrive, and hopefully new transmissions including the automated manual variety, and new diesels, and other new wrinkles. Fuel saving technologies including the hybrid powertrain may give new life to the Durango and Aspen.
7. Morale is bound to shoot up as a result of the Daimler signs coming down.
Chrysler has been a moneymaker before, and I don’t see why it wouldn’t be again. Not every company taken over by Cerberus has been slashed to pieces or resold instantly; in fact that doesn’t seem to be their normal mode of operations. Don’t lump every private-equity firm together, even if they do have a name taken from the gates of Hell. (Could the symbolism be that they’re guarding the gates of Hell so these companies won’t go there?)
Yes, I do feel uneasy any time a company is taken into the realm of finance and M&A; often it’s a continual path from owner to owner that ends in bankruptcy (and rich profits for the people who produce nothing). However, there are also many cases of private equity firms rescuing companies and releasing them back into the wild.
It seems Chrysler was always the nasty stepchild of Daimler. Glad to see them on American shores again! Hopefully we will see upgrades interiors, & cars like the Imperial, ME412, and the Demon come threw the pipeline. I hope Wolfgang has alot of pull in this new company as we need a rear “car guy” in the drivers seat!
Personally, I think it is a bit early to be assuming this is good or bad. There will surely be “growing pains”. I also think too many seem to think “this and that” should be done immediately; this could be detrimental to the survival of the company. They should really take things slowly to ensure stability. Their primary concern should be to establish stability and reliability. They are still in the process of implementing the RTP and they also have the new interior design studio up and running. These should be the main focuses; with a nice helping of fuel economy improvements.
The unions hold the key. If they realize it’s 2007 and Detroit is in dire straits, and that fewer perks is better than no perks (as in no job) at all…then step 1 is taken care of and a huge breath can be taken. Of course, it also depends on a realistic proposal being offered.
Morale is still going to be shaky for now, yes, relief on one hand but uncertainty on the other. How long that lasts depends on Cerberus. If the union talks go well, then a huge corner will have been turned.
Still…since the ’sale’ was announced I was for ABD…anybody but Daimler. That wish has come true, and ‘cautious optimism’ is my official stance until further notice :)
It’s probably too late to jump in with my two cents, but I’m going to anyway. I agree with the point that what they need to do in the short term is take things slowly and focus on the existing RTP plan. However, long term, I do think they need to take a serious look at bringing Plymouth back. The Plymouth model they need to bring back is not Barracuda, as much as we’d all like to see that. They need a 21st century Valiant. A nice, reliable transportation appliance.
The ads for the Avenger say “boredom is the villan”… but there’s something to be said for boring cars. Quick, what’s the most bland, boring car you can think of off the top of your head? Bet you said something that sells extremely well. Accord, Corolla, Taurus, etc. These cars are all quite unremarkable, but there are millions of people out there who want nothing more from a car than basic transportation. If Dodge tries to compete in the “boring but reliable” segment, it’s going to dilute the Dodge brand. IMHO, there’s a huge opportunity to position Plymouth there once the company is stable and running on its own four wheels again.
Yeah, health care concessions will have to be made. I have seen what they get and it dwarfs anything I ever had. When I was able to work (prior to my back really getting bad) I had a lower paying job and less encompassing health care package and it was more than enough to provide me with what was needed and this was me working part and dealing with multiple disabilities.
Can the “new” Chrysler develop and build a small fuel efficient vehicle and make money on it? Or was Daimler correct in that it would me a money losing proposition and it will have to come from the Chinese or somebody else? Like it or not, I think that for any car company to survive in the future, they are going to have to pay attention to the fuel economy issues.
PENTASTAR 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m hopeful this represents a bright future for Chrysler. I’ll be happy to make my next purchase a 100% American Chrysler. I guess we’ll be out of the van market once MB takes its Sprinter back. But it will be worth it to be free of the yoke of German snobbery.
A new small car, with greate mileage, how about the concept Pronto, i know it was a Plymouth concept, and im not gonna plead about Plymouth coming back, a nice economic car does not have to be boring, take europe for instance the brisk designs small cars have, and they have tiny gas engines or even better diesel`s, so a Pronto concept with a diesel and 50 mpg….why the hell not
it will be GREAT, now without benz ChryCo can make a REAL challenger not a mercedes coupe.
Mercedes can now go and celebrate, but we’ll crash their party with a big ol’ Hemi and hockey stick stripes…
Now do this right and bring back the Plymouth name brand and the Pentastar logo!
Happy, smiley, people. Me too!
Pentastar – no brainer, Plymouth – Yes! But first they need to build a stylish economical car that will attract young buyers.
Chrysler came back from near bankruptcy before with the Omni/Horizon and then the K cars. Then they made a fortune on the innovative minivans.
If the Neon wasn’t bleeding cash then Chrysler should be able to build an entry level car and compete.
The key is quality, fuel efficency and cool styling at a reasonable price. Attract new buyers and turn them into loyal repeat customers.
Let’s hope Cerberus has the good sense to give the “Harbour” numbers the boot and get back to running factories like a business that wants to be profitable in reality, not “on paper”. Chrysler has many excellent employees that need to be utilized not hidden away in
a dark corner so they don’t “count” against the cost of a vehicle to merely satisfy some arbitrary consulting firm’s idea of an efficient operation. The money may come out of different pockets, but it all comes from the same pair of pants. Pay bonuses based on real profitable performance, not just on how many units you pushed out the door of a plant or some fantasy cost savings that only exists in someone’s mind. Then the “new” Chrysler will be successful.
A new day, era and chapter in history is about to dawn for Chrysler. The DCX merger was doomed and would eventually come apart, sooner or later.
Hopefully the “new” Chrysler Corporation will be on a right track with a new strategy and products. Plymouth could one day return, along with Imperial and perhaps, American Motors/Rambler.
I understand Toyota is looking to launch an all hybrid division named Prius. Right now it appears to be a rumor, but if true, Toyota would offer 3 different models under the Prius name. This makes sense since the Prius is known as the hybrid leader and thus would be very easy to implement futuristic fuel saving technologies under the Prius name instead of the more mainstream Toyota name.
Plymouth could start off with this model – namely fuel efficient, small, affordable cars that would offer Chrysler’s first hybrids and fuel saving technologies. Since Chrysler would be more upscale and Dodge is more or less the SRT version of the company, why can’t Plymouth be the “green”, hybrid division? The Pronto concepts would be a great start and it could build from there. Adding nice, quality sedans and a sports/pony car like the Barracuda would be icing on the cake. The only downside would be that these vehicles would have to be built in China or Mexico to make money, but at least it would be a start.
Oh well, I’m getting carried away again.
Now I can finally go buy a new Chrysler without feeling like I’m being used. For the first time in 9 years…Mopar or no car!
ok
ok
ok hey just a thought of the thing that Mercedes, or whatever, push Chrysler in to doing,
killing Plymouth, think if Chrysler would revive Plymouth, well isn’t Dodge Challenger going to be out in february,
think a new Cuda’ :)
O and the ME-412, if i Understood right, Mercedes did not like the ME-412 becuase would blow the doors off there
Mercedes McLaren SLR, ha ha.
more
not putting down Mitsubishi but now Chrysler is not being told to use their part. just a thought
Chrysler immediately needs to refine the small/midsize cars they have. They have good platforms for their cars but the refinement is lost. Step up the quality of the interiors and the assembly, isolate the engine and road noise, and please get rid of the 4 speed auto. The Caliber, Compass, Avenger and 08 Sebring are not bad cars- they just need to tweak these cars to be competetive. Those are the cars that will sell now.
Huh? What year cars have YOU been driving? I haven’t seen any problems with refinement, but with interior looks and the peaky power production of the “world engines.”
I am not dreaming. A free Chrysler is back. The Pentastar is back. This is so awesome! I never thought I would see the day. Long live Chrysler Corporation.
Dave: I beleave u told me that the World Engine was making alot of noise compared with the Japanese sedans, inf that is tru i guess thats the kind of noise DBY2005 is talking about, thei are not bad, but the Jap´s are better in the Noise Arena.
Best Regards
And now that we are apart from Daimler we can do better, no longer have to settle for..That´s Ok for the DODGE kind of costumer, and respect us alot more, im adding this becouse the Refinment, the cuality of interiors, seats, dashboard design, richness aperiance, more options included in the base models, lots of things have to be done with the current lineup, i love Chrylser Group as much as u do DAVE, but we dont have to support any more the crappy, mediocre products Damler made Chrysler to produce and release to the Market, The World engine´s power is the least of my worries, Hyundai cars have the same power “problems” but the rich interiors get people hooked, not an R.P.M . Issue, Give people what they want, reliable, confortable, beautiful-interiors, Design, wich IMO is the best thing Chrysler Group products have going Exterior design, there is nothing wrong of going spartan or minimalistic on the inside, but do it with cuality, not noisy crappy cheapest plastic they could find, that scratches if you dare to look at it. That is the lack of refinement im thinking and i bet DBY2005 is thinking…Cheers
It seems to me that a return of the Plymouth or AMC brand to market small, fuel-efficient, youth-oriented cars makes some sense. Toyota will have done it twice if the they make Prius a separate brand (along with Scion). That Hornet concept car would fit right in to that plan, along with any future hybrids. A brand like that might also be a home for a restyled Compass, which is not a bad car, but should not be a Jeep. I think that would also clarify the market positions for the Chrysler and Dodge brands. It just feels like the shackles have been removed and there are so many new possibilities….very exciting time for the future of Chrysler!
Remember now and ever they make the calls looking for just one thing, PROFITS, they dont care about Heritage, and its most likely to make a Chrysler subdivision or Dodge subdivision for the ECO-BUDGET-FRIENDLY type of car, instead of investing all over again at a brand that even though i like-love and respect so much, smells like our grandfathers, OLD, i would love if they bring those old names back, but in this century not all things are Cool-Retro´s, and Plymouth its defnitly not a Cool-Retro, IMO.
If the New Chrysler prooves me wrong, i´ll be most than pleased and satisfied.
No, no, and no. People keep asking for a return of Plymouth (and others), this can not be afforded at this time; nor should such ideas be contemplated. What needs to be done is let the new interior design studio do their job, get the RTP completed, and improve fuel economy.
Then, they really need to get a Neon replacement on the Caliber platform with the tuning pushed as much towards fuel economy as possible. It is my understanding that the Caliber/Compass/Patriot could have been more fuel efficient, but it would have hindered the performance, so they chose to err of the side of discretion by tuning it “middle of the road”.
As I was trying to say in post 68 here, they need to take things slowly and do the more important things first, before contemplating any of the wildly archaic ideas some have brought up here.
I agree..worry about a Plymouth later, make the Chrysler and Dodge divisions profitable now. Does anybody remember the days whe Chrysler Engineering meant something? I bet all the fine engineers are waiting to get out from under the thumb of Daimler and show what they can do under a Free Chrysler! Show again how we can build a small car and still make a profit. Show how we can have best in class interiors. Match the warranties with the Koreans. Hang in there UAW/CAW workers too. Show that we can build cars that are on par with the world. I am just glad that Chrysler is home again.
The return of Plymouth would be great publicity, though. I don’t see it as being a major cost factor, not if they do it like Scion. There are several options:
1) Plymouth sold at select existing dealers. Town & Country becomes an elite minivan only available fully loaded and with added sound insulation and such. Base models are restyled a bit outside, identical inside (except no leather), and no top engine option, and become Plymouth Voyager again. Eventually Chrysler gets a sedan based on the Compass design, when Compass/Patriot/Caliber sales slow down enough to create space in the plant. The next generation Sebring goes to Chrysler and Plymouth, with Avenger giving way to a Plymouth, and the Chrysler version going upmarket. When the LY comes out, there’s no slow Charger; and the Plymouth LX (Belvidere?) is as stripped as they can make it. Advertising is done as Scion and Mini were done – low-budget. Dealers have to pay to get a franchise, and have to follow Saturn rules. (Or do it as Scion and Mini did.)
2) The ideal – same as in #1 but the PT Cruiser shifts over to Newark, DE. Instead of shutting the plant down and getting a bunch more retirees to pay for, keep it running (albeit lower volume) making the PT which has to leave Toluca to make way for the new crossovers. Hopefully PT keeps making profits. PT become a Plymouth which means they don’t need the clock… eventually re-engineer the PT. Also drop the 3.3 Caravan to allow the Voyager to take those sales, and to allow Dodge to be, well, bold.
I don’t have visions of Cudas just yet. I have visions of Dodge being big and bold, and Chrysler being affordable luxury.
Affordable luxury to me means no Imperial. I just don’t see the need for competing in the over 50K sedan market. That’s just not a volume vehicle. Let’s get focused on those areas where volume can be increased by bringing affordable, well engineered, high quality, increased fuel economy vehicles to market.
I’m also wondering about bringing back the Pentastar. Are they going to use it as an emblem on the vehicles or just as a corporate logo? From what I’ve been reading elsewhere, there is a huge negative reaction to using it on the vehicles. It is suggested that the Pentastar reminds people of the junk vehicles that Chrysler produced during the 80’s and early 90’s (even though we might feel different about it).
Would people buy a car from The “New AMERICAN MOTORS” Company? Matador? Eagle? Spirit? Economical, Sturdy, Fuel Efficient Transportation built with a very high percentage of parts produced in the U.S.A.
It’s great to see the enthusiasm of everyone here for the new Chrysler company. Lot’s of terrific ideas from everyone. Here are my two cents. Chrysler – stretch the LX and make a New Yorker or Imperial, flagship model. Beautiful engineering that shames the imports at half the price. Keep only the 300C(N), and the 3.5 Limited. Take a version of the Charger for your mid price line. Windsor, Saratoga,or Newport. Keep only the hardtop and Limited version of the Sebring – give the rest to Plymouth. Lose the Town and Country, re-introduce the Voyager as a Plymouth. Keep the Pacifica exclusive to Chrysler. No trucks – no suv’s. Jeep becomes the Premium SUV division, along with a luxury truck. Dodge is the performance division. Magnum, Charger, Avenger, with a soft top? Challenger coupe and convertible. Retain the Caliber, but re-engineer it for better performance and fuel economy. Keep the Dakota and Ram, but reduce the model line-up to a manageable few. The Newly Re-introduced Plymouth get’s a base Charger, police package, base Sebring (Satellite), base Voyager (SWB) panel van, and (LWB) passenger version, and a new PT Cruiser. Minor tweaking for all divisions with more focused branding and advertising that emphasizes North American engineering and excellence. These changes would not bankrupt the new company and would require minimal investment to start, other than readvertising for the Plymouth brand. This would go a long way toward’s differentiating the car lines and still allow for platform and component sharing to control costs. He**, they should just hire me!
The Imperial is not in the cards; the New Yorker is, and that’s probably more like $38,000. The idea, I think, is to not only go after the upper-Avalon market, but to take Lincoln’s place in the limo fleets with something more reliable, economical, and fun.
jimboy, I agree very much with your assessment and ideas regarding a new Chrysler Corp. There would be a few things I would change in regards to nameplates, but your general outline is very close to my thoughts as well. I am especially surprised that you also have the same thought that the Town & Country should be removed and given to Plymouth as the Voyager, while keeping the Pacifica as a high priced Chrysler people mover. That would be one way of differentiating the line ups.
Looks like this blog hit 100 posts!
Dave, don’t get me wrong. My first car was a Plymouth and I would love nothing more than to see it come back. I just don’t think it is a fiscally responsible thing to do at this juncture.
Did the deal kill the Hornet. This is the kind of car Dodge should be building. The Neon brought me back to the brand in the ’90s. They need to drive the market again. They need to show what they can do other than make cheap plastic interiors on ho-hum cars with bad mileage. I miss the Neon which served me well.
The Key to success of any full line car company selling in the USA is a high quality Low End product to attract the future High End buyer. Chrysler has always been the value leader maker of the US industry. MB tried to make the switch to delete the bottom feeder customers of Chrysler. The result was sufficient loss of sales and reduction of mass production to have a negative effect on the bottom line. Obviously MB did not recognize (Dodge + Plymoth + Chrysler)- plymoth = lost sales and ultimately profits. Remember the German leaders in 1940 were arrogant enough to think they could win a war on fought without alies simultaneously on three fronts. Maybe head strong arrogance in the face of reason is an inherited trait.
Chrysler should bring back Plymoth, they would not have to advertize it, hell, they havent advertised it in the last 25 years, but Plymoth still sold significant numbers of vehicles untill MB decided it was not necessary. The low end buyer of a high quality product(Civic and Corolla)is what Toyota and Honda built their empires on. It will take 6+ years to see the return of a strong Chrysler.
And what does MB Know- Nothing about running a American car company like Chrysler and nothing about attracting car buyers who have incomes of less than $200,000.00 a year. I am glad MB finally figured that out before Chrysler was buried.
Yes, I have owned 3 Plymoths, 1 Dodge and 1 Chrysler and a Jeep.
Well, I think it’d have to be a year or two before Plymouth came back – but even then I think it woudl do more good than harm. Think of all the advertising and rebates they wouldn’t need on Chrysler vehicles.
For a old dodge nut, I am glad to see they are back here, I would realy like to see the 2 liter diesel in the new patriot! I would buy it tomorow, America is ready to see diesels in every aspect of our vehicals, latly look at the fuel prices $3.35 a gal for gas, $ 2.80 for bio-diesel, and the diesels aways get much better milage.
I also like the thought that Plymouth could be back, we sill have our 84 Voyager.
But I still have troughble with Dodge trucks madi in Mexico!!! makes me look at GM stuff that is states side made.
I understand your feel Bill, how ever the Ram´s and PT`s even being built down there, the profits go to Chrysler, it´s not an outsurcing scenario like it would be in China, i wouldn´t mind fi the cars were bult even in Australia, if it´s a Chrysler plant, with Chrylser Managers, and For a Chrysler Profit-Full operation.
IMO, it doesn´t matter, Michigan High Cuality Workers can work with High UpScale Chrysler and Big Rig Dodge Vehicles, but leave Dodge mass market products and future Plymouths wherever the costs require them in order to make a profit, it´s a globalized world, globalized Economy, and Chrysler in order to survive has to get global, on everything, bulding selling and financing.
Hell, even UpScale German/French/Italian brands have plants in China, for the same reazon.
The Real Chrysler Corporation proved to the world that with the Neon a small car could be produced at a profit. Let’s set the engineers free again, the product designers, and all that are left and challenge them to do it again! Look at the ME-412! Made for a pittance of what a comparable Mercedes Bends would cost. Set them people loose on a small car project, good looks, economy, and reliability. Chrysler has a habit of knocking one out of the park when the count is not in their favor. It’s time to make magic again.
Chrysler products have more rabid owners per capita than any other make. They have put up with more issues, reliability, Mercedes thievery, and lack of new products, and have still hung in there. We are here, New Chrysler, hungry to buy product. I know there is still pride in engineering to design new product. There is pride in the autoworkers to build new product. Let’s do it!
I think this is a good thing. It was a sign when Dr. Z did the commercials for Chrysler and sales of their vehicles actually dropped. The people at Daimler (under the Mercedes impression) assume that people who have to work for a living will go and buy their vehicles regardless of the cost. I also found that when Daimler took over, the price of the vehicles went up while the quality went down. My first vehicle was a Dodge, so I have a soft spot in my heart for Mopars. Chrysler has built some great cars throughout it’s history. I think with the Cerberus ownership, they will continue to do so. I just have one thing to say to Cerberus: PLEASE BUILD THE CHALLENGER!!!!
Now that Chrysler’s leash is off from the Germans, let’s see some exciting product! All of their stuff is decent now (aka “nice”) but little seems to stand out, with a few exceptions. The Caliber seriously needs updating for fuel economy. Its top rating of 32 mpg is only 1 above a Chevy Impala which is 2 class sizes larger, has a much larger engine, and a standard 4 spd. auto.
The Sebring/Avenger aren’t too bad, but please give them better interiors! I hope the new interior studio will address this. A little better fuel economy wouldn’t bother me either…
What I’d really like to see the most is an image car. The Challenger is a perfect example. Let’s face it, Chrysler probably won’t turn a huge profit on it because it’s in a market segment that has much more inexpensively-built vehicles (Mustang), and it may not sell very well (by bean counter standards) because of its lack of a V6. Despite all that, it’s a product people will get excited about. If people are really excited about it, they’ll hopefully create dealership traffic and allow the salesmen to show them Chrysler’s more “sane” products.
The Challenger would make people take notice of Dodge’s performance image, if the Imperial or New Yorker was brought back, hopefully it would do the same thing for Chrysler’s upscale/luxury image. Chrysler used to compete in Buick’s segment, let’s boost their image back up so they’re not seen as merely a warmed-over Dodge.
In addition to that, the PT Cruiser, base Town & Country, and base Sebring are a huge drain on an upscale image. They could always be sent to Plymouth *hint*.
I’m so giddy and optimistic about the whole deal, my wife and I actually went to the Mopar dealers we had sworn to NEVER visit after the crappy treatment we had received after being loyal customers for decades. I actually found myself getting interested in a sneaky-black 300 or two and praying to God this all works out and the smartass, Teutonic arrogance (”No, the head gasket problem on the Stratus isn’t a warranty thing” (At 12,000 miles, can you say LAWYER?))and (”you want to schedule transmission fluid change on an ‘82 B250 van/wagon? Hell, you want the Parts Department. I’ll transfer your call.”) which had trickled down to the dealership level has trickled OUT.
I’m elated for Chrysler to be free of the shackles of MB. Personally I would like to see the resurrection of Plymouth (since my first car was a Valiant) and this would be a perfect opportunity to market a hybrid/fuel cell/new technology/save the earth fun-to-drive vehicle that Chrysler/Dodge does not currently offer. Leave Dodge as the performance oriented division and Chrysler as the luxury/prestige car it used to be.
I would also really like to see Dodge Truck division get serious and bring back an extended cab Ram with a real eight foot bed. If I wanted a four door vehicle I’d buy a sedan, I can’t believe so many people buy a full size truck with a dinky little six foot bed on it (buy a Dakota for heaven’s sakes!) Full size should mean full size, not compromise! The other truck manufacturer’s all offer more choices in cab/bed configurations than Dodge does. I love my ‘94 Ram, but one of these days I’m going to have to replace it with a new one. Hopefully Dodge will build a full sized truck for someone who tows and hauls 8′ plywood and lumber.
God bless the new American owned Chrylser Corp!
I agree with having to get Chrysler stable and profitable before doing anything ‘out there’, like bringing back Plymouth. However, i do think that eventually bringing back Plymouth is a good idea. Having Chrysler for Luxury, Dodge for performance, and Plymouth for the lower end would work well, but for products i’d love to see something along the same basis as the old shadow’s/sundances. I have an ‘88 Shadow ES (2.2L turbo) right now, and i love it. A couple years ago we had an ‘88 Lancer ES (2.2L Turbo), which we had from new, and finally got rid of with 287000kms on it. Thats reliability, and great performance. Hell, with the shadow i still get something like 35mpg on the highway, and it’s a blast to drive. Thats the kind of car that i think people could get into, that would sell well. Something thats reliable, fun to drive, though if a bit basic, with good economy. If Plymouth is brought back, thats the kind of car that they should produce. It doesn’t have to be lightning fast, leave that to Dodge, but it should by no means be totally gutless like other cars i’ve driven (cough cough, KIA). Something turbocharged offers the best of both worlds – economy and performance. Oh, and i’m all for the Pentastar, particularly centered in the grill, like on the older cars.
FINALLY, we are BACK to 3 AMERICAN car companies. Yes, I love my 89 Firebird Formula 350, and my ‘99 Wrangler Sport. But they would look even sweeter with an AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR right next to them….. THE CHALLENGER BABY!!!!
Despite my best efforts to refrain from the speculative details I can’t resist joining the party. These are just my opinions and are geared toward a time frame of two to five years. Although the General is beginning to turn things around they are still a perfect example of what to avoid, that is, brand-bloat. I’ve never understood why a company would produce multiple brands that compete with each other. As much as it pains me to say, if Chrysler were to adopt a japanese-esque brand structure they would give every other auto maker a real run for their money. It goes a little something like this…
1.) Bring Plymouth back. For those nay-sayers out there, this would actually cost very little money. All that would be required is a is a shuffling and rebranding of the current vehicle line-up. Period. The dealer network is in place, all of those Chrysler/Jeep dealers used to be Chrysler/Plymouth dealers. Same goes for the advertising, just replace “Dodge” and “Chrysler” with the corresponding “Plymouth” models and they’re all set. As for the Plymouth line-up:
1a.) The Neon. They first and foremost need a Neon replacement. In my opinion a restyled Compass/Caliber would do the trick nicely. Offer it in a coupe, sedan, and hatchback configuration and only offer them with economical four-cylinder, turbo-four, and diesel engines.
1b.) The Voyager. If Plymouths are to be the mass-market, people movers they ought to be they need to be THE mini-van brand, scrap the Town & Country and Caravan. Offer it in base-four, mid-six, limited-six configurations and make a diesel available for all models.
1c.) The Breeze. The Avenger/Sebring sedans should be scrapped and given to Plymouth. Make it roomy, comfortable, and most importantly, bland! Again, make it available in four, turbo-four, and diesel configurations. Sedan only, no coupe offering.
1d.) The PT Cruiser. This can be Plymouth’s “fun car.” Keep all the trim level and engine configurations they way they are.
2.) Dodge = Performace + Trucks. This is pretty simple. Scap the Durango, Caravan, Nitro, and Caliber.
2a.) The Avenger Coupe R/T. One trim level, turbo-six.
2b.) The Charger Sedan/Wagon. Due away with the Magnum nameplate. Offer these in R/T and SRT configurations. Turbo-six, turbo-diesel, and Hemis only.
2c.) The Challenger. Nuff’ said.
2d.) The Ram and Dakota. Diesels across the board.
3. Chrysler = Limited. This is also pretty simple. Chrysler needs to be the working American’s luxury ride. Scrap the Aspen, PT Cruiser, and Town & Country.
3a.) The Sebring Limited. Due away with the coupe. If you want the coupe you get the retractable hardtop. If you want the traditional convertible you get the cloth drop-top. One trim level and a six-cylinder.
3b.) The 300. Offer it in Limited, C, and SRT. Six-cylinder and Hemis with a diesel option.
3c.) The Pacifica Limited. The high-end people mover. One trim level. Two engines – six and diesel.
4.) A Jeep is a Jeep is a Jeep. Keep the Wrangler of course, but give us a Scrambler. Keep the Grand Cherokee the way it is. Scrap the Compass and Patriot. Rename the new Liberty to Cherokee. Scrap the current Commander, build a new one off of the now available Durango/Aspen and rename it the Grand Wagoneer!
Sorry for the rather long post, but if I were going to do this I was going to do it all the way!
Forty years. I’ve been a GM-Ford man all my ‘motoring days’, over forty years. Until now. Two months ago, we bought our FIRST Chrysler product ever, a 2007 Pacifica. I’ve bought many new GM/Ford products in the past, but this Pacifica outdoes them all. We absolutely love it. It’s the most quiet, smooth riding, tight-as-a-drum rattle free vehicle we’ve ever owned. It’s the Touring model, 4.0 L 24 valve, 6 speed tranny that hauls A**!!! Gets great mileage, all for a very reasonable price. Yes, we tested the Fords & GM crossovers before deciding on the Pacifica. I’ve always been pretty much a Chevy man at heart, but when I found out the Chevy Equinox engine and tranny are imported from China, that was the last straw. Ford’s Freestyle CVT tranny problems I just didn’t want to deal with. Didn’t even consider any of the riceburners. Discovered the Pacifica engine and tranny are built in Michigan and that helped in the decision to buy Chrysler. But still the main reason we bought the Pacifica is the overall build quality of the car. Everyone we meet loves it, wants to drive it, wants to own one. Even so, I keep hearing that Chrysler plans on dropping it. That’s just insane to me. Yes, thanks in part to the Daimler bunch, it got off to a slow start, a bad rollout, bad Ad campaign, overpriced, the excuses go on and on. But hey, I’m not an automotive expert here, and don’t claim to be. Every few years I just spend my money on what I perceive to be the best vehicle for the money that will serve us well for the next 100K miles. And I truly believe the Pacifica will do just that, and more. And now, Chrysler has a new horizon to look toward. All of us ‘MOPAR’ folks need to get on with the business of making Chrysler the great car company it once was, and frankly, I think still is today. In a few years, I’ll be in the market for another new car. If I’m pleased with the Pacifica performance, you bet I’ll buy another Chrysler!! It’s a well known fact that Chrysler offers some of the coolest looking vehicles on the road today. Everyone talks about how cool they are. They beat out GM and Ford by miles. And anytime someone comments on Chrysler vehicle styling, the name ‘Daimler’ never comes up. It’s CHRYSLER!. So what’s all the fuss about all the horrible things Daimler did to Chrysler? For heavens sake, let’s get on with the future. Chrysler can win it all with Cerberus. And speaking of Cerberus, who cares about the politics of Cerberus? Really!! I promise you, the next time I’m at my local Chrysler dealer showroom trying to decide which color to choose, the name ‘Cerberus’ won’t even come to mind. It will be “CHRYSLER” !!!!!!!
I was just about completely going over to the “enemy” camp after buying an older Cadillac, but the dumping of Daimler was such lovely news I decided to overlook the snotty dealer treatment of the past and sniff at the latest offerings. I couldn’t f’n believe it! Teutonic arrogance is still in full sway! The two dealers we visited wouldn’t even BUDGE below sticker on a 300M for my wife we were looking at! And that was on a CASH deal! No wonder sales are down. Are these people stark, raving NUTS?
I just re-read my post. I meant 300C. That shows how flustered I am. But when I have $40k in my hot little hands, ready to buy, and I’m treated like trash, I DON’T LIKE IT!
Well, for what it’s worth, we had the same situation with a 300M… I can’t believe they won’t go below sticker on a 300C.
The dealers have become as arrogant as the Daimler people. To be fair, they were largely lousy BEFORE the buyout, but they were working on that, at least.
Don’t know what part of the country you’re looking in, but we never EVER got sticker out of any 300C even when they were red hot. Again, I think dealers are being judged as a whole on the actions of a very few.
GOD BLESS MA MOPAR , I CURRENTLY OWN 6 CHRYSLER VECHICLES SPANNING 40 YEARS AND I AM LOOKING FOWARD TO MANY MANY MORE . IHAVE NEVER BEEN LEFT WALKING FROM A CHRYSLER BUT FROM GM’S I HAVE OWNED AND PHORDS I HAVE DRIVEN THEY DO NOT HOLD UP TO THE USE I PUT THE CHRYSLER’S TO MOPAR OR NO CAR , THE DEAL IS A GOOD ONE AND CHRYSLER WILL AS ALWAYS SURVIVE
if you ask me i think they will pull through it. and i really think that they should get rid of the caliber and bring back the top seller the NEON!!!!!!!!
ill keep my fingers crossed and pray that they pull through it.
thinkabout this i think that mercedces did this to get back at us. becasue we were suppling most of the vehicles for the world war when we went against the germans. i think that this is there way of geting back at us. they stole all of our ideals and put them on the mercedces. but the funny thing is that i dont think that will help them. just remember one saying… its mopar or no car!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im so glad to read all this postive post´s, but isn´´t to soon to claim all this?, i have to tell you, i still have my doubts about Cerberus, and i would like to encourage you to take things slowly, if Chrysler Financial starts to give profits befor the end of 2007, then i would start the party, and if in 2008 or 2009 Chrysler as a whole, starts bringing black numbers i would pump up the party, AND, join all of you at your Frenzy.
Best Regards
MOPARNUT, don’t know where you live, but we are selling 300C’s for $6000 below sticker including rebates. That’s in the Washington DC suburbs.
Maybe now their under new management (Chrysler), they can take the current models and upgrade what needs fixin for 2008.5 (M)odel (Y)ear. They have all this money now and should use it for good and phase of most of DiamlerBenz’s bits and pieces. They have a new supply manager,who I understand helped with the resergence of Chrysler once before, so quality issues should trinkle in with the new products as well.
(What the hell was chrysler thinking w/the new Caravan/Town&Coundtry exterior?!! I thought the GM triplets were DEAD?)
What most people dont understand is that it takes alot of money,facilities,workers to get new product out. Just simply saying ‘they should take this out and replace that and swap this get rid of this car’ and so on is a easier said than done (really it is). You’d need all kinds of money for plant restructure, money for testing facilities, money for advertisement, and the list goes on and on……
I think Cerberus knows already what they plan to do product-wise,jeez,their already moving faster in one month than DiamlerBenz in one year. Thank God the Imperial was approved for production!!!!!
“And that’s all I have to say,about,that”–Forest Gump. 1998(?)
With Dave’s comment to back me up, (I must have been thinking of buying Dave’s car (LOL)) I’m in the central Connecticut area and you wouldn’t believe the hassle it is to bring in an out of state car, new or old, through CT DMV. But the bottom line is how badly my wife is soured on the experience, especially after the way we’ve been treated at a Cadillac dealership with a TWELVE YEAR OLD CAR (1995 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham). I got the same treatment that they give to some guy who just bought some $70,000, overgrown Chevy Avalanche. I can’t blame her, especially if you care to look at the string of Mopars we’ve had over the decades.
I got the Cadillac after giving my beloved Dodge B250 van/wagon to a relative when his Ford pickup died and the little upholstering business – which he needed to supplement his skinny retirement income – is a necessity. That Cadillac will do what our Dodge did: tow our PopUp RV.
But I’m not known as Moparnut for nothing and still want another Mopar, some way, some how. Wish me luck on talking her into one. Maybe a used Concorde LXi or something that I can take to a local garage for service beyond my abilities.
Cerberus hasn’t taken over yet. Any news you hear on product is still Daimler.
Is CT one of the “super emissions” states? That would surely limit where you could get a car. Also, OT, can Cerberus get Chrysler to make the 3.5L quit vibrating at idle. I’m driving a 2007 SXT Magnum and when sitting at a light, it feels like I’ve stopped on a busy bridge. It doesn’t run rough, it just vibrates. I’ve felt it on my friend’s 3.5L 300 as well. Maybe some motor mounts that cost $.50 more each.
I HOPE THAT THEY DO WHAT THEY ARE TLAKING ABOUT.( Cerberus SAID THAT IF HE GETS WHAT HE WANTS THAT WE WILL BE SEEING A LOT OF OLD NAMES THAT WE HAVENT SEEN FOR MAYBE LIKE 40-60 YEARS AGO AND THAT THEY WILL BE BRINGING BACK THE PLYMOUTH LINE WHEN THEY GET EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL (WOOO…. whoooooooo). I CANT WAIT BECASUE HE SAID THAT HE IS BRING BACK THE DESOTO AND CARS LIKE THAT.)
“Is CT one of the “super emissions” states? That would surely limit where you could get a car. ” Huh? NJ is also one of the superstates and believe me, they discount 300Cs here. We get every car sold in every other state.
Re SRT4King – where did he read that?
I once posted a comment on the forums, a revival of Plymouth would be very good (and if it’s not possible we could use Rambler, Frazer, Willys, Nash or Hudson or Valiant who was once briefly as a separate division, Kaiser might be a little bit too politically incorrect). As Mopar4ever mentionned then not all things are Cool-Retro (even despite the new Mini success and in Europe, the future new Fiat 500 evoquing the older model, maybe the retro isn’t finished yet), AR2 at the post #82, mentionned also to bring a “green” image, maybe there a way to kill 2 birds with one stone by being “retro-cool-green”
Then Chrysler could step ahead to compete Cadillac as well as Lincoln, Jaguar, MB, Lexus more directly. Dodge stay sporty while Plymouth/Valiant or Rambler go as the inexpensive entry/green division which left a void between Dodge and Chrysler. I ponder if the DeSoto nameplate is too damaged to revive? I guess I’m perhaps the only Gen-X to like the DeSoto nameplate.
Retro Isn´t finished yet, i´ll agree Stéph, how ever most kids, according to those that i know, they like much more High tech image, ofcourse with a retro touch, that´s why the caliber is selling, if you bring retro looks in a simple car, u might…just might get the oposite reaction.
If plymouth gets back i would like to see High Tech apareance, with simple technologies, to make it reliable, cool looking, economic (price tag and Mileage), yes a low profile Hyundai/Daewoo fighter, Toyota is a bit upper scale, as far as i know.
Atracting young buyers is the key to a brand longevity, if you reach the old timers nostalgia, it might work for a while, but after they leave us, who would buy the nostalgia kind of cars
I think they’ve taken the boxey look too far. Just about every model (especially Dodge) has that design and it’s just not playing well with the general public. I would like to see a return to a more aerodynamic styling theme. It should also help fuel economy.
Stéphane,
I don’t know if you are the only Gen-Xer to like the DeSoto because I have good feelings for it as well. I wouldn’t really know of DeSoto if it weren’t for my grandpa’s 1959 DeSoto Fireflite. I like that car along with the Adventurer, but I just cannot see where DeSoto would fit into the lineup today. DeSoto worked in the old days because the competition (GM and Ford) pretty much had the same matching lineup as Chrysler and vice versa. Today, Toyota and Honda are killing Detroit with 3 and 2 divisions respectively. The idea of numerous divisions like GM has pretty much become obsolete. You want to try and do more with less.
I think Dodge could move upscale a bit more, thus pushing Chrysler to a higher price point. I think this would allow Dodge to put better detail and effort into the performance, design, and exterior/interior design of its cars without worrying about being the price leader. Dodge can’t be both – sporty and the price leader because you wind up with mediocre efforts like the Avenger and Caliber. Plymouth can fill this role better without worrying so much about high performance and concentrate more on the daily driving machines that Honda and Toyota sell so successfully. They may not be exciting, but they are what keep dealerships going.
I think it is a good idea to bring Plymouth back because it can come back with fresh, new thinking – and give a jolt to Chrysler Corporation. We know what Chrysler and Dodge are about and have been about over the years, but Plymouth is kind of an “X” factor and could jolt things up with new, fresh thinking and a new way of doing things.
Brad,
I agree they’ve taken the boxy shapes too far. I find almost all of their stuff to be boring and too boxy. If they were to bring back the sleek, aerodynamic styling of the old Chrysler, I might be interested again. I just don’t connect with these Daimler inspired designs they have now.
Moparnut,
I’m sort of in the same situation as you are. When I was younger, I was a Mopar nut. Mopars were the only cars I knew and really cared about. Maybe it was because I was born into a Mopar family or because our family business dealt with selling and repairing Mopars, but that was all I really knew growing up. Fast forward to today, and my “love” for Chrysler has severly dropped off a cliff. I think the Daimler years took a lot out of me and I found, for the first time, that I was cheering against them (well, DCX). The thought of the Germans running and “fixing” Chrysler was just something I could not support, and thus things really soured with my outlook on Chrysler. I even stopped going to Mopar events or looking at Mopars in car shows. I didn’t really want anything to do with it.
Today, I am faced with the difficult task of breaking my ties with other auto companies and coming back to Mopar. It’s not easy. I feel the need/desire to rejoin the Mopar family, but there isn’t anything being made by Chrysler that I even want to buy. The closest thing is the Challenger, but I’ve already been stung by the Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 and Chevy Camaro convertible. I’ve been looking forward to those cars for some time, so they will get first dibs. I’ll test drive a Challenger when it comes out, but I highly doubt I’ll buy it.
Not only are there really no products that interest me, but I have to put up with the arrogant dealers in my area. Not all of them are bad, but most of them aren’t worth crossing the street. In contrast, my experience with the Ford dealer I bought my Mustang Mach I from has been great. I would have no problem buying from them again because they treat me as a person. They don’t come across as arrogant, smart-ass, know-it-alls. They are just a small town, family owned dealership that talks to me like I’m a neighbor. Heck, they let me test drive a Mustang Shelby GT this past Saturday even though they know I have no plans on buying it. I’m sure when their GT 500 comes in this fall, they’ll let me take it for a spin. They aren’t worried that I’ll drag race it or tear the car up because they know I respect cars and try to take care of them as much as possible. I don’t have that feeling with the Chrysler dealers in my area.
Now, if Chrysler comes out with the 300 Hemi C convertible or a PLYMOUTH Barracuda, things will change and I’ll put up with the Chrysler dealers around here. For the time being, however, the products aren’t worth it.
This does disturb me because I would like to go back to what I know – and that is Mopars. Maybe some day I’ll get my chance, but it depends on the people in Auburn Hills and the products they produce.
I own nothing but the old Chrysler Corporation. The newest in my yard is a 99 Neon (160k miles). I am infinitely relieved to see Ma Mopar back in America again. Frankly, it was getting a bit frustrating to see the only cars I’ll drive diluted and mixed into something I cared nothing about. I’m waiting to see what the New, NEW Chrysler produces. In three years, I’ll be in the market for a new car and truck (and the cash to buy them outright) and I want to buy a new car and have a REAL Mopar.
I love my Mopars, they range from a 65 Crew Cab Power Wagon to a turbo 5 speed ‘89 caravan (what a sleeper!) to a Cummins powered ‘93 D250 club cab. I’m presently looking for a C or B body to make into a trailer puller for a planned 2011 tour of the 48 states with a trailer in tow. I’ve owned three 60’s and 70’s New Yorkers, a diplomat, a 65 fury, a reliant, two Aries, a dynasty, a horizon (autocrosser), a Sundance, a slant six powered D150 (78) and most of them have gone immense miles for me and evoked strong loyalty for their reliability and character. There’s been others, too.
If they don’t screw it up, Chrysler can rule again… Here’s to hoping. And betting my future drives on it.
Looks like AR2 and me share the same mindset. HOWEVER – - – I may end up sleeping on the couch permanently if my VERY recent purchase doesn’t work out ( ! ). As of yesterday I talked my wife into TRYING the cheap way into Mopars just this once more. So, at the beginning of the week we traipsed through – get this – auctions and used car lots. We finally ended up with a 2000 Chrysler Concorde LX with LXi trim. Weird, but she actually liked it and it was cheap. (whew!) So if she changes her mind and really wants that CTS-V, we aren’t out all that much. Anyhow, it’s got 71k miles but has that questionable small V-6. Yet the oil looks clean and the car seems okay with a decent warranty paid for by the dealer. I still haven’t told wife that I happened to like that particular model Concorde because of the Ferrari grille and the cute curvy rear that is kind of sexy – sort of like hers (don’t anybody let her see this).
What should be known, however, is how DCX continues to shoot itself in the foot.
When I got the Cadillac, I went to corporate website to get the build sheet. NO PROBLEM. They faxed it to me overnight after I gave them the VIN. Next time I had some other question, eMailed them and BOOM, got another reply OVERNIGHT, by return eMail.
DCX DOESN’T EVEN HAVE SUCH A PROVISION EVEN IF YOU BOUGHT A MERCEDES!
I wanted to know something about this Concorde’s anti-theft system, so I went to the DCX site and wandered around looking for customer relations or somewhere I could ask a question.
NOTHING!
That is corporate public relations suicide!
GET THESE ARROGANT IDIOTS THE HELL AWAY FROM “MY” BELOVED COMPANY A.S.A.P.
Moparnut,
You need to go to the “Ask Dr. Z” site. I’m sure the all-knowing Dr. Z will answer your questions with the twitch of his moustache and a twinkle in his eye!
Even though I’m not a big fan of the current Cadillac CTS, I don’t think I would take a Concorde over a CTS-V if the chance was available. This is where my loyalty for Chrysler has fallen in that if somebody is building something I really like, I’ll buy from them and won’t give Chrysler a look – unless they have something impressive as well. Twenty years ago, that would never have happened.
I agree that Chrysler needs to bring back Plymouth. The Market should look something like this.
Chrysler: Should take on MB head on. No car for under 25k. Undercut MB price by just enough to keep a-flot. These cars have a softer, sexy more luxurious feel to them (models: 300C (5.7/6.1L only) Include a folding hard top. Crossfire and Sebring
Dodge Cars: Keep building the Viper, the way it was ment to be. Brutal (in performance and looks…and fire the guy who made the 03+ body style). The Viper is a halo car. When people talk about American supercars, the viper should come to mind first. 750hp-1000hp Vipers shouldn’t be far behind. All dodge cars should be niche market high level sports cars, nothing under 300hp. When other cars hear a Dodge is comming, they should run and hide. (Viper, Challenger (5.7/6.1 only) and Razor concept from a few years ago.
Dodge Trucks: Once again, in your face style. Mean, Strong and Reliable. Have innovative features(removeable tilt hood/fenders). Whats wrong with offering a Ram 1500 4×4 with a Cummings Turbo, 6″ Lift and 36″ tires. Dodge has no room for wimpy cars. Dodge is a Man’s Brand. NO SUV’s RAM Pickups 1500-3500. DROP NITRO, Caliber and Durango
Jeep: Once again, this is a niche market. Military products and hardcore off road monsters. No trucks or car based SUVs. The SRT’s for this brand will have much more upgrades in the suspension/drivetrain for heavy off road use…and a little power too. Cherekee (5.7/6.1L only) TJ(6cyl and 5.7) and a version of the Nitro.
Plymouth: This will be the mass market segment (somthing, I would never buy myself) It will have 4cyl or 6cyl/ hybirds/SUV/X-Over-SUV. Mostly Pratical everyday beaters. Nothing over 35k. NOTHING FROM SRT. Not cheap crappy cars, just plain, boring and cheap. Start off simple with: Caravan, PT Cruiser and a Advenger (just extra boring name). Ensure all can have hybird and other eco friendly crap I don’t care about.
The way the Dealers are structured should be changed. Chrysler/Jeep dealers should have never been put with each other. Chrysler should be it’s own dealer(ala lexus), same with Plymouth (ala Toyota). However Jeep and Dodge should share showrooms. The reason why is that Chrysler and Jeeps are just too different. They do not share the same image. Chrysler has much more estrigen in her where as Dodge and Jeep are both testeseron driven.
SRT: We need them now more than ever. Nobody goes to the showrooms to see a base model PT Cruiser. No, you want to look at 8.4L V-10 600hp bad boy. Give them 3 cars to work over….just to start with.
Chrysler needs to first pull the plug on it’s NASCAR efforts. That was a waste from the start. The Viper is the Halo sports car, what were they thinking. NASCAR is nothing but a shell of what it was back in the 60s. Win on Sunday Sell on Monday still works very well, it’s just that you need to put that mantality into something the Viper takes part in (ala Speed World Challange…even being the most penalized car, the Viper is still the one to beat). Or better yet, Go back and kick everyones butt is LeMans GT1.
There is lots of room for platform sharing in this arangement. I honestly feel when you drop the car from say a Dodge, to a Plymouth…don’t change the name. Keep it the same. This will show clearly the direction each divsion is heading to. Plymouth is very important to this plan. It will be the highest volume sellers. This should be the bread and butter of the new Chrysler.
Make Mopar strong again. Offer REAL upgrades and crate engines again. When someone wants to rebuild a Neon/viper or Dakota they should be thinking Mopar parts…ala GM
They need to change the Ask Dr. Z site… maybe they should caricature me – I’m also Dr. Z…
I don’t think that would work, Dave. You do not have the same German superiority complex.
I do however have German (and Polish and Russian) ancestry. The Russian part kept me stubbornly on the losing side during the DCX years, the German part kept me thinking I was right, the Polish part provided the beer and keilbasa.
I agree with Bobby O that they need to restructure the brands, and bring back Plymouth, but I have a slightly different strategy in mind:
Chrysler: Pure Luxury, three basic sedans similar to BMW. Sebring, Concorde, and Imperial. Sebring would include 4, 6 and 8 Cyl engines, nothing less than 6 speed manuals, or 6 speed Autoboxes. Concorde similar but without the 4 Cylinder engine and bigger. The Imperial should be full size only with 8 Cylinder engines, but the SRT should step in for all three. Sebring SRT-8, Concorde SRT 10, Imperial SRT 10. Thats right use the Viper V10 for the SRT’s here as well, so you can gain Economies of scale. Also, replace the Crossfire Coupe with a new model, with 4, 6, and 8 Cyl engines. Furthermore, low volume Sebring Coupe and Convertible. Of course, the Firepower with a diff name and the entire Corporations Halo Car should be the ME Four Twelve. Throw in a couple of crossovers(2), and a full size SUV, and you got a full lineup capable of taking anyone on in the Premier Luxury League. Also yea make Chrysler a stand alone brand in its own dealerships where possible. All should have a RWD bias to it, with optional AWD. SRT should be limited to this brand.
Jeep: Wrangler, Wrangler Unlimited, Wrangler Pickup, Liberty, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee. All with gas and optional diesel engines. All should be certified Jeep Trail Rated, but there should be a special Rubicon level of Jeeps geared mainly for offroading and the Overland should be a Land Rover luxury equivalent.
Dodge: Sporty, mainstream, yea hard to do, but Nissan and Honda have accomplished something close. Have a B, C, and D car along with a full sizer. The B, C, and D should all have hatchback and wagon models, and the B, and C should have diesel options. Challenger and the Viper should remain. There should be a 4 in the B, C, and D, car, 6 in the D and the Full Size car, and an 8 in the Full Sizer. Revamped LWB minivan, Sprinter and that covers the van market. They should have a compact, and two midsize CUV’s(five seater and 7 seater), Plus and all new 8 seater Durango. Trucks: my favourite part of their lineup, new distinctive Dakota, and Rampage(yea i said Rampage meaning a Ridgeline fighter), and a new Ram, 1500, 2500, 3500, 4500, 5500, etc. That is what Dodge should be.
Plymouth: two city cars, two B cars, and two C cars. All should have FWD, a hatchback design, sedan design, and 3 dr design. This should be there green leader, and value leader. All models if financially viable should be available with Diesels, and hybrid powertrain. One of the C cars should be a RWD coupe and Roadster model. lighter and tighter built than the Miata. Should accompany the Demon and Crossfire on a new platform. Plymouth prices should not go beyond 25K, and all models should have a version of it that gets close to 40mpg. There should be nothing bigger than a 5 Cylinder engine in this brand. Yea 5 Cylinder.
Plymouth and Jeep should share dealers all others should stand alone. Plymouth should be aimed at Scion and other youth brands as well as act as a way to slow the progress of Chinese and Korean makes.
I’m loving the enthusiasm here, and the great idea’s, but please folk’s use your spell checker’s, some of you are really bad speller’s. Also in post #129 who are you referring to? And to #131, I love De Soto’s, especially the late 50’s models. The very prettiest of the Virgil Exner design’s, IMHO.
Well, Nick, that would be a good way to insure the death of the company.
Nick has some darn good ideas about brand positioning. May I add a couple of unusual additions?
Toss in a few small to mid-size but high-quality FWD DIESELS like Cadillac is running in Europe. Position them at the DeSoto (?) level?
That should hit the market like a bombshell.
Getting back to my elCheapo 2000 Concorde LX with LXi trimmings: It has what my 1995 Fleetwood Brougham was DE-CONTENTED from. It has the mpg and all that computer goody in the overhead that gadget lovers fawn over and which Cadillac dropped prior to 1992.
In other words, Chrysler was putting MORE into their cars but CONSUMER DISTORTS refused to give them a fair shake as would be expected.
On the other hand, we bought the 1999 Stratus after a Car & Driver report which said that if the 5-speed manual model had a HONDA badge and “sport suspension” on it, “you couldn’t keep them in the showroom.” Sure enuf, we’d been crazy about the car ever since; 23 town, 36 highway per MS Excel over its lifetime.
The only reason we sold it was due to having made the commitment to our veterinarian to sell the Stratus to her when we were going to buy a classic deVille coupe but at the last minute the seller proved to be a fraud. So we were stuck.
Still, I find myself liking the driving of the Concorde and its handling.
Don’t tell people to use their spell checkers until AFTER you figure out that apostrophes signify contractions or possession, and are not meant to be used for plurals.
Dave, if it’s all the same to you; I would rather hang out with your Polish side. It seems it has the proper priorities.
Just like a real marriage, the two partners Daimler and Chrysler wedded with heartfelt vows and the best of intentions, but the one partner, despite the ardent courtship, proved fickle, cold, and controlling in the days that followed, true integration was not to be, thus wilting the flower, before it could fully bloom. Daimler did the honorable thing, and released Chrysler, the jilted lover, to find someone else: Cerberus. Yes, Chrysler enthusiasts remember Consumer Reports in 1978 invented a new road test, i.e., flicking the wheel at freeway speed– and then complained when the car(Omni/Horizon) actually responded to this insane maneuver. The reviewer had probably never heard of “low polar moment of inertia” or that it is often an engineering goal to provide maneuverability. Consumer Reports often misinterprets the data: for example, most lemmings go off the cliff, but– CR never seems to ask: is this a desirable outcome? Does Daimler builds cars too heavy? Or is it an industry-wide problem? I was looking at the stats in a 1950’s Motor Trend and it seems that a lot of cars back then were 3250 – 4500 lbs. A half century later that same weight is still considered acceptable, even with the advent of new, lightweight materials and the intellectual acknowledgement that oil will someday decline — suddenly. It’s simple physics that shedding weight improves economy — and performance. See “peak oil.” The big problem with the cute, little cars is that many people give them lip service, but don’t want to be the first to drive them! Not with so many large trucks with bad brakes on the road. There is also the momentum or inertia of the entire industry to consider, new models outside the mainstream may be too great a risk, and, the profit margins on a thrifty worldcar are too small
Am I the only person who is irritated by news articles talking about how Daimler finally wised up and dumped loser Chrysler? It seems that the media has collective amnesia about that fact that Chrysler was extremely successful at the time they were taken over, were crowned Company of the Year by Forbes magazine in their January 1997 issue, had hot selling cars with short design-to-production times and the highest profits-per-vehicle, all of which allowed them to create the cash reserves they had always lacked. The reason that Chrysler may be a “loser” now is that Daimler sucked the life out of them, interfering with and ultimately wrecking the entire management system that had made them successful in the first place, while siphoning off money to prop up a “luxury” car company that got lower quality ratings than their supposed inferior corporate step-sibling. I guess it at least makes me happy that the original Chrysler Corporation (1925-1998), after so many years on the roller coaster, passed while at the top of its game; hopefully, there is enough life left in the company to survive in its new form, Chrysler Corp. LLC.
Enough of the cute stuff. Let’s get a bit serious.
Try this for a plan based on a few proven bits of history.
Car buying is EMOTIONAL! Face it. The old expression “Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday” isn’t merely a cliche, IT STILL SELLS CARS!
e.g.: why on earth would Hertz want the GT350H? (Emotion?)
e.g.: what use is a Barracuda? A Mustang? A Camaro?
They are all about as practical as an ear on the top of your head.
Now – - – Take a fellow like Chairman Lee, A real CAR GUY who literally invented the MINIVAN.
Don’t forget, he also took bits and pieces from the Falcon parts bin and created the Mustang.
Further, remember that the stupid fools in the average newspaper still thinks that Chrysler never repaid the loans that Iacocca “stole” from the government. In actuality, it was repaid – in spades well ahead of time thanks to brilliant strategies and the K-Car.
So we know that a scrappy Chrysler company can overcome a whole bunch of obstacles, even the likes of Johnny Carson making skits calling it the “Chisler” corporation.
Sadly, when the sauerkraut brigade took over, one helluva lot of talent bailed out as did the fantastic cad/cam/design/assembly programs which M-B wanted in the first place.
But if another Iacocca/Lutz combo might be in the offing, what about:
> IMPERIAL – Goes head to head with Cadillac in EVERY way.
> CHRYSLER – Slightly below Imperial in “image.” Sort of the kind of vehicle driven by the Hit Man or Wheelman while the Imperial is the vehicle that the Don rides in. The old image of the Hell-for-leather, powerful, amazingly able and astoundingly roadworthy, harkening back to the image of the 300s.
> DODGE – Buick/Mercury/Pontiac fighter. Mid-range PERFORMANCE car with a lot of FAMILY image thrown in as well. Here ONLY is where the MINIVANS BEGIN! (More on this in a minute.)
> PLYMOUTH – Returns in a blaze of glory, bringing back many customers who cried many tears at its untimely demise. FAMILY/ENTRY vehicles with all the performance goodies one might want on the option list, plus – of course – minivans.
Now – - – Sit tight *****
> Resurrect DeSOTO!
I told you you’d be shocked. This is VERY upscale. Above Dodge, where they used to be. They have the FANCY MINIVAN as well as a downrated/downscaled Chrysler. They would also have something along the lines of that DIESEL CADILLAC that’s pootling around in EUROPE. If Cummins can’t supply it, then – what the hell – Mercedes probaply would or else Perkins surely would just as they do for London cabbies.
OKAY, GUYS. HAVE AT IT !
Just a small correction to the post above: I meant to say Chrysler had the highest profits-per-vehicle of the American auto companies.
The new Chrysler could start by using thier own transmissions. The Dollar is sinking against the Euro, so I suspect that Mercedes hand-me-down auto is getting really expensive. Go back to using the Kokomo built four speed auto behind the six cylinder LX cars, right now, until a better solution is found. They aren’t selling enough LX Hemis to worry about using them until their tranny replacement is found. Dump the CVT in the Caliber/Compass/Patriot. Read Csaba Csere’s column(page 13) in the May 2007 Car and Driver. The CVT is a bigger handicap than weight in these cars. Put the new six speed transaxle behind the 2.4 world engine ASAP. For the Compass and Patriot the six speed auto should become a 5 plus low set up. Put in a manually selected low gear of around 6 to 1. With a 4.1 axle ratio it would give the small Jeeps a better crawl ratio and a taller top gear ratio.
Dodge should quit watering down the R/T title. The 2.4 Calibers would become the 024. The Caliber R/T would have the Avenger R/T AWD drive train. The Avenger should the get the 4.0 six for the R/T.
Finally exploit the Pt Cruiser and Neon platform fully to resurrect Plymouth.
I’ve found all the speculation and thoughts about what Chrysler should do fascinating. I have to say though, despite some compelling arguments, I still don’t think that resurrecting defunct divisions is the answer to the problem. I am a huge Chrysler fan, I’m on my third Mopar (of 4 cars I’ve owned), and have read any book on Chrysler history I can find. I collect all sorts of Chrysler Corporation memorabilia. No one has to sell me on the company. But, I think what’s being missed here is that everyone writing in is a Chrysler fan. We miss brands like Plymouth. If it came back, we might be looking to buy a Plymouth. But I suspect that most (not all, but most) of us didn’t stop buying Mopars because Plymouth disappeared — we just bought Dodges, or Chryslers. I honestly don’t think that the general public — those who aren’t Chrysler Corp. devotees — miss Plymouth in the least. I don’t think the Plymouth name, or the Imperial name, or the DeSoto name, means a thing (or at least nothing positive) to them, and there aren’t huge numbers of potential buyers currently driving GMs, or Fords, or Toyotas, thinking, “if only they brought back Plymouth, I’d be right there to buy one.” Chrysler Group is still selling a lot of cars. Don’t forget how much Chrysler division sales have gone up since Plymouth disappeared. I’m not saying there’s a direct relationship at all. I’m just saying that Mopar fans will buy Mopars, regardless of the brand name on the trunk lid, and someone who is unimpressed with a Chrysler is not going to buy it just because it now says Imperial. You either like the product being offered, or you don’t. It’s that simple. The brand name matters only to a few of us. And whether the product being offered is good, bad or indifferent is a topic for a completely different discussion.
The Daimler buyout of Chrysler was fraudulent from day one. The deal was publicized as a ‘merger’ because it would have been stopped dead in it’s tracks by Congress if the truth had been told. Unfortunately, with a bought and paid for Congress no investigations were ever done. This is becoming the standard in a country that once protected American industry from predators. Anyway, getting rid of German CEOs with no understanding of the American car market is great although I’m sure that Chrysler will be paying for years. Chrysler’s designs have been the absolute best for the last decade (look at all the PTs, 300s, Dodge trucks etc on the streets) and the Germans STILL couldn’t make the company work. Good riddance.
I tend to agree, Norm. We recently bought a new ‘07 Pacifica (post #115) and did so mainly because it is an excellent vehicle, built very well, runs fantastic while delivering great mileage. After comparing other crossovers offered by GM and Ford, dollar-for-dollar the Pacifica won hands down. And, while this next sentence may ruffle a few feathers, if the Daimler bunch had something to do with the design of the vehicle, then so be it!!! Bottom line, we shopped, we compared, and we found out that the Chrysler was the best product out there, and we bought one. PERIOD !!!!
Brand loyalty seems to be something many forget. But i believe very strongly that the return of the PLYMOUTH brand would be a positibve move for the new management. Check the prices of Barracudas currently. They are even out selling the Challenger in the collector car market. When Chrysler dropped Plymouth I moved over to chevrolet Geo’s and have owned three so far. Prior to tha time I had always bought Plymouth.
Actually, Lam was not investigating Lewis, rather it was Debra Yang. See:
http://patterico.com/2007/05/27/memo-to-stephen-kaus-lets-use-facts-and-not-mythology/
The thing about bringing back Plymouth for me is that because it was shut down during most of the Daimler days it was not really damaged. Furthermore, you can do pretty much anything with it, and that could be low cost entry level brand, which would help you reposition better to take on Toyota with three main brands, Plymouth, Dodge and Chrysler. There would be no limits for Jeep. You could also as a lot of people think use it as a mainstream brand and push the rest of them upmarket. It would be a useful tool in rebuilding the company, and increase their overall sales, and if done properly make them money.
Unfortunately, the DeSoto brand I don’t think that there are many possibilities, and that it should probably stay where it is. It could not last when it was fighting only GM and Ford how could it stand up to all the new competition.
Just my opinion.
I’m just glad we can talk about the future like this. Things were looking pretty bleak a few months ago.
It’s great to see everybody thinking about the possibilities. I’d like to see Chrysler achieve a few simple, yet very challenging goals:
1. Regain the lead in full-size pickup design as in 1994 and 2002. Looks like they have a shot of doing that with the 09. And, perhaps exploit the compact truck market with something like the M80. There really is no comeptition there other than the ancient Ranger.
2. I do hope Chrysler will beat Honda and Toyota to market with a hybrid minivan: whether Chrysler, Dodge or Plymouth. Two-mode hybrid with the 2.4?
3. Make a concerted effort to dethrone the Camry as best-selling mid size car. A lofty goal, but certainly worth shooting for. Present Sebring is a good starting point, but needs more captivating styling. Perhaps an improved version could be the core of a new Plymouth division.
4. Bring fuel cell powered car to market by 2010.
5. I’d like the 300 image to be polished over the next few years. Mirror the CTS: a V6 Sport model and the top 300C, maybe a coupe. A LWB Imperial. I like the Idea of a Plymouth Fury model for fleet sales (Hemi for police, hybrid for taxi use)
Chrysler was always good at looking ahead and taking risks, and building a better mousetrap. Chrysler can compete with Toyota and the rest. I am very proud of the company and will be cheering on all their efforts.
Oh, one more thing:
6. Once again, build a profitable small car in North America. It can be done. It can be done without China. Up until now Americans and Canadians have been too willing to give in to the idea that our jobs will inevitably be shipped overseas and we throw in the towel. Let’s refuse to buy goods made in China and show the rest of the world our workers can compete with anyone!
Get that old Neon platform out and design a whole new range of small cars around it. Cheap to make, already developed, and the 2.0L just make the adjustments to the head gaskets, and a proper cheap 5spd, and you got a winner of a car. Maybe a hatch, sedan, coupe, wagon, small convertible, the possibilities are endless.
Nick im also a Neon Fan i even talked my parent´s to stay away from the Corolla and get a used Neon SXT at showroom conditions last year, and guess what, they love avery inch of it, how ever, i doubt that the average costumer, or most costumers would like the idea of a refurbished “old” neon platform with new looks, we know that it matters nothing if the product works well, and meets emissions/EPA regulations, but the costumer like fashionable products, from tiny cell phones with built in high resolution cameras and mp3, up to their houses or plains, just becouse of costumer perseptions it won´t work, If they claim that it´s a NEW small car platform, with the Smallest World Engine Avaleble, with a 5 speed stick, with an Auto as an option, and make it TOP SECRET that it really is an Old Neon Refurbished, and updated..it might work, but we all know that sooner or later it would get out to the streets, and that would be it for the product, Even thoug the Neon was a hit in 1995 and killed by the Daimler inepts, we sould keep it dead.
I Agree with post 163 by Mr. Mutz we need a small NEON like car, but not a Neon Frankenstein with Caliber technologies and gadgetry., a new car built from scrap with to main things in the objective
LIGHT WEIGHT – no matter how good your engine is, if it has to move a large weight, the EPA rateings would not impress anyone.
COOL YOUNG LOOKS – Like it or not the main stream like futuristic designs, that´s why the “new” Civic have that edge againts the corolla, the corolla looks boring and the civic transpires High-Tech, even thoug its a same old – same old civic in the inside (except the Hybrid).
SPORTY LOOK AND FEEL – Even when we are on a budget, we like to do the smartest buy, and get the most of our money, the fastest for the buck (Plymouth expertice), so even if we buy a 40+Mpg little car, we would love to have some “GO” and tell to our favorite lady friend, “it might not be much of a car, but it´s the fastest little car in the road, and i´ll start some mods next month” no matter if we ever do it or not.
Having to settle down, or downsize becouse of the Gas prices, does not means we HAVE to buy a boring little car.
I cant believe some of these ideas! Does anyone understand what the real intent is. The only barrier China has to the US auto market is the dealer/parts network. What do you think a private equity group will do with that? Chryser assets will be sold off within 2 years and a Chinese car company (think Chery Motors or Shanghai Motors) will buy what is left and the dealer network. Given 3-4 years there will be nothing for the UAW/CAW to worry about because there will be no manufacturing of Chrysler autos in North America. This is so obvious and nobody is catching this story. I can see the TV ad now “Only at your local Chrysler/Jeep/Shanghai dealer”. Also note, the Chinese product is close in quality/fit/finish of what is coming out of Detroit now–all that wrapped up in a $10,000 sticker. Time to face the future, boys. The American consumer does not want what Detroit makes.
RSmith/DJones, you are so out to lunch. Where do you get your information? These cars can’t even pass a crash test and you are comparing them to the quality of american autos. Get real if people such as your self would get your heads out of the sand and acknowledge that except for Toyota and Honda even the other Japanese manufacturers quality isn’t that hot. But y’all keep buying them. neglecting the fact that these companies support your fellow americans into their old age, whilst the janpanese ones have no such interest. If it wasn’t for the uaw/caw do you think a Toyota or Honda worker would make the wage that they do today. Get real pleeeeeeeeeease.
Welcome to the New Chrysler everyone, Daimler is out of the way and Cerberus is letting LaSorda do his job. I think its time to celebrate.:)
I think that is a good news. Don’t feel about it. Life is full of changes. I hope Cerberus will do its part and I know they can.Goodluck!
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