Comments on: Allpar’s holiday schedule http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/ Chrysler, car, and other discussions by Allpar contributors Thu, 08 Jan 2009 02:07:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Dave http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-68503 Dave Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:50:58 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/#comment-68503 The invoice was not posted to make dealers look bad. It was sent due to the incredible curiosity and excitement around the Challenger. We all know the dealers need a winner to make up for what Chrysler's been doing for the last few years. We all know some dealers are good - maybe even a majority (though my personal experience would tend to make me doubt that). Price gouging is indeed an issue that some people find morally repugnant. I'm personally divided on the issue, just as long as the dealer stands behind the product and services it properly - and keeps selling on the up-and-up. Even reputable five star dealers often have some questionable practices... but this isn't the time or place. I wish there were more dealers like Curtis' family's still around. Unfortunately, many of them have been drowned out and destroyed by the high-volume, shrill, con-them-if-you-can megadealers, and the companies have rewarded that because if it moves the goods, it's good. I'm hoping that'll change and the good dealers will be rewarded with more than just a few grand on Challengers. The invoice was not posted to make dealers look bad. It was sent due to the incredible curiosity and excitement around the Challenger. We all know the dealers need a winner to make up for what Chrysler’s been doing for the last few years. We all know some dealers are good - maybe even a majority (though my personal experience would tend to make me doubt that).

Price gouging is indeed an issue that some people find morally repugnant. I’m personally divided on the issue, just as long as the dealer stands behind the product and services it properly - and keeps selling on the up-and-up. Even reputable five star dealers often have some questionable practices… but this isn’t the time or place.

I wish there were more dealers like Curtis’ family’s still around. Unfortunately, many of them have been drowned out and destroyed by the high-volume, shrill, con-them-if-you-can megadealers, and the companies have rewarded that because if it moves the goods, it’s good. I’m hoping that’ll change and the good dealers will be rewarded with more than just a few grand on Challengers.

]]> By: curtis redgap http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-68501 curtis redgap Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:19:29 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/#comment-68501 Ah, Mikey. Well, I did find a lump of coal, however it was not in my stocking, since Santa was, and always has been VERY good to me. The coal was rather placed in ALLPAR by someone alleging to be a dealer giving us the ol' "bah humbug" trick because some good information was posted therein. Hellbent? Disappointed? Quite as expected your response is a typical pre-judgement of what a "consumer" is or what constitutes a potential "up" that comes to your store. I grew up in a dealership, sir. A damned good one, thank you very much. One that existed far longer than most due to the management esconed therein, as my Granddad, and my Father owned and operated it for many years. Honesty was a center most pillar with trust, and value making up the bearing walls. So, selling a $249.00 "Wii" for $1,000 is OK because EVERYONE is doing it? It is all right because it "goes on everyday, everywhere?" That may be your moral judgment to justify that sort of action, however, it is NOT right, never has been, and never will be. That is just taking advantage of a given situation and "gouging" the customer. Yeup, my grandson (5 years old) wanted a "Wii" pretty badly. However, even he, quite easily grasped that paying out a grand for a $250 item is a "rip." As far as my business acumen, well, again, you prejudge, making assumptions based upon your tilted value systems. I have owned and operated businesses of my own, several, over the years, and currently own and operate an electronics business, doing well after 8 years, after having sold a Motor Coach Bus business that operated for 10 years with a dozen coaches. Many, many businesses remain and thrive due to posting and sticking to the actual value of the item they are selling. For years, dealers reputations were continually soiled by unscrupulous practices. About 150 years ago, horse dealers who lied were hung. Why do you suppose that was? The reputation for being a "horse trader" rightly or wrongly has stuck to the automobile business. Take care of the customer. True, but I think your believe it is OK to charge someone several thousand dollars over invoice for a vehicle, because that is "business." Sure it is. Is it right to do? No. It is not. But, there are always going to be people who will make the choice to pay the money, even though good information is out there for them to be informed that they are getting gouged. And as for the seller? Sure, sellers get all that high gross..... but in the end, it comes back at them in some way. A good "deal" is a good deal. As for being a true MoPaR "NUT" I can say that I used to be the biggest. However, the "merger of equals" took all that energy away. I have not seen anything, and that includes this Challenger that is going to restore confidence in Chrysler. As for understanding the dealers..... well, I think there are many that just plain do not deserve to have a franchise. Not directed at you particularly in anyway. However, there are many that also will do little to restore confidence in Chrysler. Charging outrageous over invoice prices for a production auto is one of the things that brings doubts as to the sincerity of such a store. Believe it or not, a car company can do business without a dealer and survive. People buy on the internet all the time now. And that is an area that is growing. Why? Dealers. However, thank you and I wish you and all of yours the best for 2008. Ah, Mikey. Well, I did find a lump of coal, however it was not in my stocking, since Santa was, and always has been VERY good to me. The coal was rather placed in ALLPAR by someone alleging to be a dealer giving us the ol’ “bah humbug” trick because some good information was posted therein. Hellbent? Disappointed? Quite as expected your response is a typical pre-judgement of what a “consumer” is or what constitutes a potential “up” that comes to your store. I grew up in a dealership, sir. A damned good one, thank you very much. One that existed far longer than most due to the management esconed therein, as my Granddad, and my Father owned and operated it for many years. Honesty was a center most pillar with trust, and value making up the bearing walls. So, selling a $249.00 “Wii” for $1,000 is OK because EVERYONE is doing it? It is all right because it “goes on everyday, everywhere?” That may be your moral judgment to justify that sort of action, however, it is NOT right, never has been, and never will be. That is just taking advantage of a given situation and “gouging” the customer. Yeup, my grandson (5 years old) wanted a “Wii” pretty badly. However, even he, quite easily grasped that paying out a grand for a $250 item is a “rip.” As far as my business acumen, well, again, you prejudge, making assumptions based upon your tilted value systems. I have owned and operated businesses of my own, several, over the years, and currently own and operate an electronics business, doing well after 8 years, after having sold a Motor Coach Bus business that operated for 10 years with a dozen coaches. Many, many businesses remain and thrive due to posting and sticking to the actual value of the item they are selling. For years, dealers reputations were continually soiled by unscrupulous practices. About 150 years ago, horse dealers who lied were hung. Why do you suppose that was? The reputation for being a “horse trader” rightly or wrongly has stuck to the automobile business. Take care of the customer. True, but I think your believe it is OK to charge someone several thousand dollars over invoice for a vehicle, because that is “business.” Sure it is. Is it right to do? No. It is not. But, there are always going to be people who will make the choice to pay the money, even though good information is out there for them to be informed that they are getting gouged. And as for the seller? Sure, sellers get all that high gross….. but in the end, it comes back at them in some way. A good “deal” is a good deal. As for being a true MoPaR “NUT” I can say that I used to be the biggest. However, the “merger of equals” took all that energy away. I have not seen anything, and that includes this Challenger that is going to restore confidence in Chrysler. As for understanding the dealers….. well, I think there are many that just plain do not deserve to have a franchise. Not directed at you particularly in anyway. However, there are many that also will do little to restore confidence in Chrysler. Charging outrageous over invoice prices for a production auto is one of the things that brings doubts as to the sincerity of such a store. Believe it or not, a car company can do business without a dealer and survive. People buy on the internet all the time now. And that is an area that is growing. Why? Dealers. However, thank you and I wish you and all of yours the best for 2008.

]]> By: Stratuscaster http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-68500 Stratuscaster Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:03:49 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/#comment-68500 Mike - relax. You act as if Allpar was the only site that ever revealed a dealer invoice or other "secret" information. And you have to admit - there's a buzz around the Challenger - ANY information, no matter how trivial - is news. Most of us already know what margins dealers operate on, that invoice price doesn't mean that's what the dealer really paid, and other supposed secrets of the trade. Most of us have also had enough bad experiences at an auto dealership to have a negative taste about it anyway. I'm all for a dealership making money. I'm against dealerships using deception, lies, and scams to make money. Not saying you have or your dealership has. Unfortunately, there are enough bad dealers and salespeople out there to taint the entire group as a whole. I see the invoice, and I see that between "invoice price" and MSRP there is a nice chunk of change to be had by the dealer. That's great. If you can sell it to someone else for more than MSRP, then more power to you. Just be honest about doing it. Limited edition, supply and demand - both are valid reasons. Yes, I know the dealer costs on my flat-screen TV and computer - I make it a point to know as part of making a purchase. Enjoy your holidays, Mike. Relax, finish that eggnog, and sell those cars. You take car of your customers. Allpar will take care of it's customers, too. -jim Mike - relax. You act as if Allpar was the only site that ever revealed a dealer invoice or other “secret” information. And you have to admit - there’s a buzz around the Challenger - ANY information, no matter how trivial - is news.

Most of us already know what margins dealers operate on, that invoice price doesn’t mean that’s what the dealer really paid, and other supposed secrets of the trade. Most of us have also had enough bad experiences at an auto dealership to have a negative taste about it anyway.

I’m all for a dealership making money. I’m against dealerships using deception, lies, and scams to make money. Not saying you have or your dealership has. Unfortunately, there are enough bad dealers and salespeople out there to taint the entire group as a whole.

I see the invoice, and I see that between “invoice price” and MSRP there is a nice chunk of change to be had by the dealer. That’s great. If you can sell it to someone else for more than MSRP, then more power to you. Just be honest about doing it. Limited edition, supply and demand - both are valid reasons.

Yes, I know the dealer costs on my flat-screen TV and computer - I make it a point to know as part of making a purchase.

Enjoy your holidays, Mike. Relax, finish that eggnog, and sell those cars. You take car of your customers. Allpar will take care of it’s customers, too.

-jim

]]> By: Mike http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-68491 Mike Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:49:55 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2007/12/21/allpars-holiday-schedule/#comment-68491 Mr. Redgap, I can tell by the date and time of your post, that you must have woke up on Christmas morning and found a lump of coal in your stocking. Hellbent and dissapointed, you set out to explain away your view obviously as a consumer. You talk about over-charging, smoke and mirrors, and the such. I'm guessing that you have never worked in an auto dealership, or owned your own business. Constantly under attack, lumped together with all the bad eggs out there. Supply and demand dictates price. There's been a game highly sought after this Christmas, called Nintendo "Wii". They are supposed to retail for around $250.00, yet they are on Ebay for sale for up to $1000. This type of thing goes on everyday, everywhere. No matter what product it is. My guess is that you havn't been on the receiving side of this type of transaction. Yet no one knows that particular individuals cost and expense to maintain operation, advertising expense, insurance expense, wages, property taxes, inventory, etc. Either the price works for you, or it don't. It's that simple. Being that there is a production number that is limited on the first batch of Challengers(roughly #5500) there will be some stores that charge more than sticker, regardless of the invoice being posted on sites like this or not, and customers will pay it. However, the true Mopar "nuts" realize the value of having a limited production vehicle. My only gripe is, that the auto industry, seems to be the only one that has cost on it's product's displayed many places, correct or incorrect. Why? Anyway Mr. Redgap, I'm not sure if your a Mopar "nut" or if you work for this website in some capacity, but if you are a true Mopar guy: past, present or future, you might try to understand, that without dealerships there is going to be no future Mopar products as we've come to know. We are a third generation business, thriving and successful. Not because of unhealthy business practices, but because of a basic understanding of business. Take care of the customer! Happy Holidays. Mr. Redgap, I can tell by the date and time of your post, that you must have woke up on Christmas morning and found a lump of coal in your stocking. Hellbent and dissapointed, you set out to explain away your view obviously as a consumer. You talk about over-charging, smoke and mirrors, and the such. I’m guessing that you have never worked in an auto dealership, or owned your own business. Constantly under attack, lumped together with all the bad eggs out there. Supply and demand dictates price. There’s been a game highly sought after this Christmas, called Nintendo “Wii”. They are supposed to retail for around $250.00, yet they are on Ebay for sale for up to $1000. This type of thing goes on everyday, everywhere. No matter what product it is. My guess is that you havn’t been on the receiving side of this type of transaction. Yet no one knows that particular individuals cost and expense to maintain operation, advertising expense, insurance expense, wages, property taxes, inventory, etc. Either the price works for you, or it don’t. It’s that simple. Being that there is a production number that is limited on the first batch of Challengers(roughly #5500) there will be some stores that charge more than sticker, regardless of the invoice being posted on sites like this or not, and customers will pay it. However, the true Mopar “nuts” realize the value of having a limited production vehicle. My only gripe is, that the auto industry, seems to be the only one that has cost on it’s product’s displayed many places, correct or incorrect. Why? Anyway Mr. Redgap, I’m not sure if your a Mopar “nut” or if you work for this website in some capacity, but if you are a true Mopar guy: past, present or future, you might try to understand, that without dealerships there is going to be no future Mopar products as we’ve come to know. We are a third generation business, thriving and successful. Not because of unhealthy business practices, but because of a basic understanding of business. Take care of the customer! Happy Holidays.

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