GM and Chrysler, working together again
You may remember how the analysts and reporters were claiming that GM, after acquiring Chrysler, would shut down pretty much everything but the minivans and Jeeps. At that time, you may remember my saying:
Rubbish, I say. Even if Rick Wagoner is as foolish as he looks. These people don’t know Chrysler. They are still thinking the Daimler line about Chrysler: that it’s nothing but a bunch of aging dinosaurs selling obsolete vehicles nobody wants.
I had a list of what Chrysler could offer to GM. I have another list of how GM and Chrysler can work together as partners, with no need for shared ownership. Remember, GM and Ford worked together on a new six-speed automatic transmission, and GM and Chrysler jointly used to make manual transmissions, and worked together on hybrid powertrains. Competitors can work together without having to own each other.
So what do the pair have to offer each other?
- State of the art Phoenix V6 engines (which are not yet in production but are still in development) – these are said to be lighter, cheaper, and far quieter than GM engines. I wonder if GM would want to use them, at least in some vehicles.
- Dual-clutch technology. Despite what the media like to say, it’s not all Getrag or Volkswagen patents. Perhaps the Getrag conflict was created because Chrysler didn’t see any need to give German companies big profits, which seemed to be a major Daimler motivation. Maybe they figure that the world’s largest transmission maker might have some spare capacity that would be cheaper than having a vendor build a whole new factory.
- Electric cars apparently at a high level of development. I’d guess that neither one has all the pieces of the puzzle, but that together they’d be pretty close.
- The Ecotec engine is probably a better choice than Chrysler’s current World Engines. The Dundee facility is supposed to be world class; making Ecotecs might make all the difference.
- Shared car platforms – remember, we’re talking dimensions, not engines or other components – would save both companies a ton of money. Even some shared architecture would make sense, if they could get away with it. Chrysler really needs good cars to replace the Neon and, according to most reviewers, the current Sebring/Avenger; they also need something in the Aveo class.
We’ll never know what GM and Chrysler were talking about, but it’s quite possible these are some of the issues that were on the table, instead of a complete takeover. Likewise, talks with Fiat and Hyundai were unlikely to be covering an acquisition (which may be why Hyundai denied it outright). Maybe Chrysler was talking about an exchange with Hyundai – access to better V6 engines (or for that matter, better fours) in exchange for access to some of their basic car designs, or even just a continuation of the Hyundai Atoz sort of deal. With Fiat, Chrysler may have been talking contract manufacturing, diesels, sale of Newark, or any one of dozens of other scenarios. I personally doubt Fiat has the money to buy Chrysler or the foolhardiness to think they could run it.
Rumors are a great source of hits to a web site, and that means advertising dollars. Analysts are going to be coming up with all sorts of foolish notions (like “Chrysler will be bankrupt by Wednesday”), forgetting all the past predictions that never came true. Reporters will cover the analysts’ statements as though they have more accuracy than palm readers. (Remember all the “Apple will be bankrupt by June” stories? How about the Chrysler bankruptcy predictions in the late 1980s/early 1990s?)
The GM rumors were started by stories in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, newspapers that tend to fly off the handle less often than some others, and were supported by the Detroit News. Maybe there was something there. Maybe the rumors were disinformation or misconstrued information, or maybe there were plans for a Chrysler or a GM acquisition; we don’t know and neither do they, I suspect. We ran with them because those are credible sources (unlike, say, Reuters.)
Tomorrow, we’ll give you the real story. No, just kidding. Tomorrow we’ll hear more fragments, perhaps, or will think of other speculations. But I must say that the Cerberus people seem pretty open to working with other companies, and they really have to be; Daimler got rid of most of Chrysler’s engineers, they got rid of another bunch of engineers, and there just aren’t enough people left in Auburn Hills to make a full line of cars by themselves. Even if they went back to one central architecture with numerous variants for each type of vehicle (e.g. K-cars, body-on-frame, Jeep, and minivan/crossover; or A-B-C-D cars, and trucks), they could not do it all themselves any more. That’s sad – perhaps tragic - but that’s the reality Daimler left behind.
i believe that chrysler and GM should never work together because of chrysler doing so much better than ford or GM.
I feel Chrysler should not help/align with GM. I worked for a GM dealer for over 4 years in service and can honestly say they are far inferior in quality and dependability. People complain about Dodges truck tranny but they should have seen the number of Sierras and silverados I saw blowing trannys at 7-10000 miles. Numerous intake and head gasket problems, piston problems. We even had a New Envoy that needed an engine before its first ooil chnage, then a transmission, and numerous fit and finish problems. A G6 GT that was in our shop more than the owner had it in his driveway and GM bought it back because it was so bad. All before 10,000 miles. I have owned many GM’s Ford and Chryslers and the Mopars have been the best by far. Its to bad so many current magazine and consumer assistance magazines are completely Anti-Chrysler. They do make some great products and have the ability to continue to amaze with their innovations and designs.
I fully agree with Mike. I have been a salesperson for Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep for 14 years and continue to see quality improvements every year. Our medium duty trucks are second to NO ONE. Chrysler needs to develop a better marketing plan that instills faith in our products to the public. Toyota and Honda somehow have been able to do that. They too have problems with their vehicles. However, they are covered up or ignored and never seem to reach the general public.
I agree with both Mike & John. I feel GM would bring Chrysler down and hurt them financially even worse than Diamler did. The ONLY thing I personally saw come from Diamler was an improvement in fit & finish. Unfortunately, they also made Chrysler use sub par materials for the interiors to keep them from becoming too competitive with them..
Everybody lets just do an employee purchase like southwest air did years ago.
Fit and finish was getting better anyway…
I BELEIVE A MERGER WITH NISSAN WOULD MAKE ALOT MORE SENSE
GM would definately hurt Chrysler. Chrysler engineering is second to none. They are always first with new innovations and introduce new and exciting products and refinements to consumers.
I agree, their reputation has been hurt over the years. Many people think its taboo to own a Chrysler vehicle. As a person who has done my own repairs in the past, I can tell you it has been a walk in the park as compared to people I have seen working on a GM or Ford. I’ve never seen anything so assed-backwards as what I’ve seen in Gm or Ford products. Even when they copy something
they can’t get it right, or add their own twist to something that just takes completely away from the idea or point. I totally agree with Chrysler comming up with a new marketing scheme to get away with bad publicity or mind-set. Those dirty top ten car magazines (which I’d never buy) are totally biased when it comes to Chrysler. They’d try and make you believe that an Import sardine tin car, with a fart-can muffler would better benefit Americans than a tried, tested, and true American icon/marvel of the automotive world.
Back to Chryslers ad campange, I’d like to see them come up with some TV ads using Rock and Roll music and some guts like in the old days. Wouldn’t you rather see an ad for the new Ram with AC/DC’s Who made who playing? What about if they took that song, with a black screen and as the song cues up we see nothing but the headlights come on, a black Ram appears, takes off and does a half donut (to show the rear), with the caption ” America…Here’s your truck! Catch it!) as the truck is taking off down the road with the backdrop of a canyon or something.
I’d think that would make me buy one and I wouldn’t be able to get it out of my head.
I see import commercials all the time using this. All we’ve gotten from Chrysler is Dianna Krall,
makes me bored. Remeber the old Ram ads with the Ram towing a peice of heavy equipment and pulling ahead of GM and Ford. Toyota is doing similar stuff even today with their commercials for the Tundra. Blow away the competition with ads.
Remember WPC was VP of Buick. So we’ll do it again. Sell GM engines, dual clutch, transmissions. And maybe stopgap small cars from them, shared platforms/architecture, if need be, utilizing Chrysler drivetrain, etc.
Years ago when I bought my ‘79 D150, my friend was selling Chevys and I agreed that their body was better (at least better than the 70 – 78 Dodge Trucks). So I said sure order me in a ‘79 Chevy Step-Side, but no engine and transmission, because the 318/4 spd Dodge was superior. lol
Cooperation is at least a means of staying alive in this economic down turn. I am just sad to hear how Chrysler has been stripped of its engineering staff. Thats what happened during the late 70 & 80s and Chrysler suffered for it, we can all remember the Aspen & Newports of late 70 & 80s. Chrysler currently has few impressive vehicles. Most are pretty homely styling. And it hurts me to say that, since I have owned my 69 Imperial Lebaron for 19 years. I just bought an 05 Town & Country so I didn’t have to buy that ugly new one.
An alliance with Nissan & Renault I think would have benefited Chrysler on a number of fronts, Nissan using the Ram as there full size truck, Renault selling a small car or two as a Chrysler product. We can only hope Cerberus will hold onto Chrysler long enough for it to make a come back as it always does
It really looks like the ChryCo PR folks need to brazenly and consistently buy off the car magazines, both to praise the Company’s cars (see what happened with they took Motor Trend to Europe in a Challenger?) as well as to rain on the europeans (the most dishonest bunch of creeps on the planet, for those of you that haven’t dealt with any of them – brits, germans or french) and japanese/koreans. Additionally, it’s time for Obama to talk about how it’s patriotic to buy American, and that it’s the road to rack and ruin to buy foreign. Give that activity and message a couple years and the car biz for the US companies will flourish. We all share in this. People who buy foreign need to be called on it, made to feel disloyal and (self) destructive. Peer pressure is a powerful thing. It’s nice to see Sony not doing so well, huh? Too bad there’s no RCA or Zenith left.