Comments on: Alternatives to loans for Detroit automakers http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2008/12/05/pre-censored-the-alternatives-to-loans/ Chrysler, car, and other discussions by Allpar contributors Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:08:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: DaveAdmin http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2008/12/05/pre-censored-the-alternatives-to-loans/comment-page-1/#comment-77158 DaveAdmin Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:56:01 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/?p=591#comment-77158 I'll add that this "protectionism is evil" religion seems to be a matter of faith, rather than tested science. My guess is that protectionism is like capitalism and socialism: if you push it to an extreme (either totally free market or totally protectionist), it's bad; but you need some balance. Not many people think we should have no government roads, dams, etc.... or the VA, badly run though it can be. Ask people whether they want the socialist USDA or FAA to go away for the sake of pure capitalism... and the same applies to protectionism vs free market. I don't think there are a whole lot of extreme positions or pure ideologies that are right. Nor, as I've said before, do I think that applying a label to something automatically means we have to reject it. I’ll add that this “protectionism is evil” religion seems to be a matter of faith, rather than tested science. My guess is that protectionism is like capitalism and socialism: if you push it to an extreme (either totally free market or totally protectionist), it’s bad; but you need some balance. Not many people think we should have no government roads, dams, etc…. or the VA, badly run though it can be. Ask people whether they want the socialist USDA or FAA to go away for the sake of pure capitalism… and the same applies to protectionism vs free market.

I don’t think there are a whole lot of extreme positions or pure ideologies that are right. Nor, as I’ve said before, do I think that applying a label to something automatically means we have to reject it.

]]> By: Bob Taylor http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2008/12/05/pre-censored-the-alternatives-to-loans/comment-page-1/#comment-77157 Bob Taylor Sun, 04 Jan 2009 05:58:38 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/?p=591#comment-77157 Why, exactly, is protectionism bad in the US but not in every other "free market economy" in the world. The US Free Market thinking is peculiar only to us in the US. Every other country in the world rejects it in some way. The only free market that works in totality is in a flea market because nobody actually needs anything from there! Everything else in this world is either regulated, manipulated or corrupted in some way. Why, exactly, is protectionism bad in the US but not in every other “free market economy” in the world. The US Free Market thinking is peculiar only to us in the US. Every other country in the world rejects it in some way. The only free market that works in totality is in a flea market because nobody actually needs anything from there! Everything else in this world is either regulated, manipulated or corrupted in some way.

]]> By: J. Tranor http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2008/12/05/pre-censored-the-alternatives-to-loans/comment-page-1/#comment-77154 J. Tranor Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:26:35 +0000 http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/?p=591#comment-77154 I agree with most of the points you make about the alternative except for 4, 6, and 7. I do like the other point very much. I feel that the points I disagree with are a form of protectionism. The reason I say this is that I do not believe that protectionism allows us to compete properly because it gives a false prop. I buy everything that I can made in U.S.A.. It is hard because there are very few things at a personal consumer level except for big ticket items. I will be getting a new car in the next month and I will buy American also. It is a no brainer. I do believe that there are some people who would buy a foreign auto no matter if a U.S. car was made of gold and half the price because they are in love with the idea that the foreign auto industry is better. I disagree whole heartedly and I would rather my eyes burn out of my head than look at a wannabe; exaggeration of course but I cannot stand the thought. That being said, I want to tell you why and how I feel protectionism hurts us. I am an aerospace machinist and my skill level is probably a 7 with a 10 being a master machinist. I have a journeymans card and I have my tool and die certification. This is so that you can know where I am coming from not to brag. We have people who come from Ford, GE and sometimes GM. These are people who come from the lower seniority, 14 years or less. They claim to have the same credintials and years of experience but it seems that 99% are terrible machinist who whine about what is required of them and the pay. If we had to up our price on our machining so that we could afford to have these people, we would soon be missing contracts. Thier jobs are protected for the most part because the ones who do stay end up going back to the companies after a certain amount of time. What I am getting at is people need to be competitive. I am not talking competing on an non-level playing field. Instead of cutting tax breaks for other companies and protecting us from them(foreign auto co.) they need to cut taxes for existing companies and quit having so many regulations that choke out the industry. I believe the government is one of the big blames for this and they need to get thier hand out of the business. Requiring business to do things that are good for the social reasons does not add up to profitability but it is what we get now. Level the playing field and let us compete. We are Americans, we do not need a crutch that is not what made our country great. All the people who believe that other countries make so many more wonderful things and have a better way of life by socializing things, I feel they should go live there and let us thrive. I agree with most of the points you make about the alternative except for 4, 6, and 7. I do like the other point very much.

I feel that the points I disagree with are a form of protectionism. The reason I say this is that I do not believe that protectionism allows us to compete properly because it gives a false prop.

I buy everything that I can made in U.S.A.. It is hard because there are very few things at a personal consumer level except for big ticket items. I will be getting a new car in the next month and I will buy American also. It is a no brainer. I do believe that there are some people who would buy a foreign auto no matter if a U.S. car was made of gold and half the price because they are in love with the idea that the foreign auto industry is better. I disagree whole heartedly and I would rather my eyes burn out of my head than look at a wannabe; exaggeration of course but I cannot stand the thought.

That being said, I want to tell you why and how I feel protectionism hurts us. I am an aerospace machinist and my skill level is probably a 7 with a 10 being a master machinist. I have a journeymans card and I have my tool and die certification. This is so that you can know where I am coming from not to brag. We have people who come from Ford, GE and sometimes GM. These are people who come from the lower seniority, 14 years or less. They claim to have the same credintials and years of experience but it seems that 99% are terrible machinist who whine about what is required of them and the pay. If we had to up our price on our machining so that we could afford to have these people, we would soon be missing contracts. Thier jobs are protected for the most part because the ones who do stay end up going back to the companies after a certain amount of time.

What I am getting at is people need to be competitive. I am not talking competing on an non-level playing field. Instead of cutting tax breaks for other companies and protecting us from them(foreign auto co.) they need to cut taxes for existing companies and quit having so many regulations that choke out the industry. I believe the government is one of the big blames for this and they need to get thier hand out of the business. Requiring business to do things that are good for the social reasons does not add up to profitability but it is what we get now.

Level the playing field and let us compete. We are Americans, we do not need a crutch that is not what made our country great. All the people who believe that other countries make so many more wonderful things and have a better way of life by socializing things, I feel they should go live there and let us thrive.

]]>