Fiat: the best choice?
Once again, Chrysler managed to surprise much of the world by announcing its tie-in with Fiat. The deal was a win-win, with Fiat finally getting a serious entry into the United States, via ownership of around one third of Chrysler, and Chrysler getting a serious entry into Latin America and Europe, with Fiat’s distribution network and small-car technologies.
Do not underestimate what Chrysler is gaining here. Outside of Jeep, the company has never had a serious presence outside North America, Australia, and some parts of South America (at some times), and has not had a real minicar lineup since selling SIMCA and Rootes Group to Peugeot. What’s more, the Australian business was sold to Mitsubishi nearly 30 years ago.
Daimler left Chrysler with a severe shortage of cash, engineers, and time. Cerberus surely saw that Chrysler has been left without any seriously competitive entries below the 200C (assuming that’s going to yield a real car); the Patriot is a fine niche vehicle, and some people like the Caliber, but the volume just isn’t there. Nor did the Avenger/Sebring set the world on fire; they aren’t bad, in my opinion, but they don’t have the wide appeal the company needs to have an assembly plant devoted to them, even with the Journey thrown in. Chrysler needs small cars – mid-sized and smaller.
The company has been saying for years that it will only get into this space with a collaborator. That goes for the mid-sized market, too – the ever-popular area where Chrysler used to dominate with the Valiant, Duster, and Dart. While a 200C, if produced, would be popular, I suspect it would compete more against higher-end mid-sized cars than the entry level, where the Camry thrives.
Fiat is one of the very few companies that does not compete against Chrysler in ANY meaningful way. Really, they don’t. The two have barely any geographical overlap and even less product overlap. Mercedes was always an insane idea; Chrysler wanted to bump up into their turf in both cars and SUVs, and both had their chief selling market in the U.S. Fiat was, in contrast, always a great idea, because they complement each other. Very few people cross-shop Fiat and Dodge.
Today’s Fiats are not the awful (but weight-balanced!) junk of the 1970s. Driving a modern Fiat is a revelation after those awful, plywood-dashboard, unreliable, but fun-when-they-worked cars sold in the United States so long ago. Yes, they were so bad that their reputation lingered long past Fiat’s exit.
Autoblog and others seem to be fixated on Alfa. That’s not where the action is and Cerberus knows it. A Chrysler-badged Alfa would be like the Crossfire; few would accept it.
In this deal Fiat is getting 35% of Chrysler equity; much of the remainder will go to the UAW and other parties. Cerberus already said they were giving away all the Chrysler equity. This allows them to do it in a way that will benefit the company, by providing a ready-made set of cars that just need to be brought into compliance with American needs.
The new cars will apparently be made in the U.S., not by Fiat. They will probably be re-engineered. The engines can be used in existing vehicles. The array of technologies gained by this is impressive to say the least, and without any “real” cost to anyone but Cerberus and maybe, sadly, the UAW.
This will help to make up for nine years of product starvation in those ranges, and it will do it quickly. There is no more need to link up with Chinese companies that will soon be here in any case, buying up bankrupt suppliers, building cars in Mexico for export to the U.S., and otherwise wreaking havoc – which we cannot respond to, for Americans cannot own companies in China, and in any case they have the trump card (enough American debt and off-shored factories to make this recession look like a party). There is no money for Chrysler to create all the goodies that Fiat will soon be handing over.
For Fiat, the deal is also positive. They do not have to buy their way into the American market; they will have a presence here even without their name brand showing up. It is like building a bunch of joint-venture factories, without having to spend a penny. Launching the Fiat brand would have been incredibly expensive; now it won’t be needed. Alfa Romeo can be relaunched using Chrysler distribution channels (not the dealers, but the parts centers and such).
But I care far more for Chrysler and what they are getting: small and mid-sized cars, small engines, lightweight transmissions, new fuel saving technologies, long-awaited distribution channels in Europe and Latin America, and an equity owner that can easily outvote Daimler-Benz – and has a vested interest in Chrysler’s success, with no emotional need to destroy the company. What’s more, Cerberus will still be pushing for Chrysler’s success, since they own the loan company – which will thrive if Chrysler the car company does.
I care less about Fix-It-Again-Tony jokes and other indications that a person knows little about Fiat as they are today, versus how they were thirty years ago.
That said — I do have concerns. I am mainly concerned with the fact that, as a reader pointed out, this will make Chrysler foreign-owned again. That is something I’d like to see avoided, and it can’t be, even if Cerberus buys back Daimler’s 20%, because apparently Fiat has an option to buy another 20%, pushing it up to 55%.
Also – So much for Cerberus giving large amounts of equity to the union! Guess I should have seen this coming. I can’t imagine a lot of people at Cerberus have any sympathy for the UAW or the retirees; the medical and pension funds won’t be getting anything near the money they need. If you ever wondered why the union doesn’t seem to trust management, look at the deal to offload medical costs from the company to the union, and how much of the agreed upon cash will actually end up in the union’s trust funds.
It would be a better deal, in my opinion, if Cerberus managed to keep European ownership down to 49% at most. However, gaining a 55% majority was probably a deal-maker for Fiat. If this means Chrysler’s survival, so be it; maybe at some point in the future, Chrysler will come back to us. In the meantime, at least we’ll own 25%… which is more than we had under Daimler-Benz.
Well at least nothing will be screwed up as far as keeping Chrysler Chrysler. And as for being foreign made may not be a bad idea since Fiat has no intentions of butchering it up like Diamler did!
I suspect that it is one way for Chrysler to have small cars in the wings without having to actually design them. The fellow at Autoextremist has lots of nice things to say about the 500. With a European partner that actually understands common car economics rather than “The consumer doesn’t know what they want and we do” attitude from Daimler, it has to be an improvement. Chrysler needs a small car line. Fiat cars may be the answer. Using Chrysler to get vehicles through the legislative hurdles may be the only way for Fiat to to sell cars here in any case. Chrysler has the facilities and Fiat does not.
As a lifelong Chrysler buyer, I am ellated that this partnership came together as it did. I did not want to see a Merger between GM and Chrysler because the latter would have gone away, too much overlap. Same thing with Renault/Nissan. This is a Godsend! These two companies will help one another in the areas each need the help, and I am certain both will benefit tremendously in this partnership. I would love to see a Chrysler badge on a Fiat 500, and I really want to see the Chrysler 200c built. This car is, “Electrifying”, phrase coined by a Motor Trend Editor, but it will bring Chrysler back to the forefront of styling leadership as they once were before Daimler got their claws into our America Icon. If I were King, that would have started World War 3 against the Germans.
Sad, truly sad. This is what happens when someone buys a company and doesn’t have a clue about what they do or how they do it. I don’t see this helping at all. I see the end of the line for a once proud American company. Fiat better come up with some money, the American taxpayer won’t fund a foreign owned company, nor should they. I was going to order a Challenger in the spring, not now. I guess in the end the only things we will actually “make” in this country are cigaretts and Whoppers. I guess in the not too distant future we will fondly talk about Chrysler’s like we do Packard’s, “they were a great car, once upon a time”….
I work at a Chrysler dealer, there is a big sigh of relief going thew dealers right now. They are actualy smiling becasue 1 it looks like they will still be around for a while, and to some there maybe another car line added if Fiat brings Alfa here. If this keeps Chrysler alive then I am all for it. Its better that the Gm deal that would of shuttered dealers, factorys etc. And lets face it Alfas are drop dead pretty cars. James R I agree the Fiat 500 would and could be rebadged as a small Dodge. They also have a pocket rocket of this caleld 500 Abrath I believe, can you say return of the GLH (wishfull thinking).
I agree that this is better than a GM-Chrysler merger which certainly would’ve meant the end to several car/truck lines because of overlap. Getting the small car help Chrysler needs (and should’ve gotten from Daimler) will, hopefully, have some fuel efficient models in the showrooms sooner rather than later. Fiat will benefit from Chryslers dealer and parts distribution in North America and Chrysler will benefit from Fiat’s networks on other continents. I hope the 35% ownership stake combined with Daimler’s 19% doesn’t impact our government’s support of Chrysler.
As for Daimler trying to sell their share, I’ll gladly give them $100 for the 19% they still own. That’s all they deserve after the raping and pillaging.
… they actually deserve to lose $15 billion for the pillaging… or more. Chrysler, as it was under Lutz and particularly Stallkamp, would have helped to maintain a thriving network of American suppliers, thereby helping GM and Ford as well. The American economy was walloped big time by this deal.
This all looks good so far, but I want to hear how this deal is going to be operated officially from Chrysler first. I’m hoping, as everybody here seems to feel, that the end result will be Dodge (and dare I hope PLYMOUTH) cars using Fiat technology with a good dollop of Chrysler know how thrown in for good measure. Thing is, who’s to say these cars wont be built as Fiats, albeit at a North American plant? Even if they are, and sold as such through Chrysler dealers…well, is that really a big deal? To me it is…I want a strong and free Chrysler Corp., just like the good old days before Robert Eaton made one of the worst moves in automotive history!
Sorry for the pessimism, but we’ve been to this party before and I’m not clapping and cheering till I’ve seen what the clowns are going to do!
“who’s to say these cars wont be built as Fiats, albeit at a North American plant?”
Have you read the comments at other sites? I don’t think Americans are ready for a Fiat branded car.
“we’ve been to this party before and I’m not clapping and cheering till I’ve seen what the clowns are going to do!”
Good idea.
“I want a strong and free Chrysler Corp., just like the good old days before Robert Eaton made one of the worst moves in automotive history!”
I’m with you, but I suspect the only way that’ll happen now is if Fiat decides it needs money quickly and either sells Chrysler (highly unlikely) or spins it off as a public corporation in the US (even more highly unlikely).
This would launch Fiat up to the fourth largest automaker in the world, I think, from the sixth largest in Europe.
Motor Trend’s website said there is a rush to federalize the Fiat 500 by 2010. Remember how the K-cars and minivans used Mitsubishi engines when they were introduced? Those vehicles had Chrysler built engines also, but the Mitsu motors filled in the gaps. Perhaps history is repeating itself. The Dodge Colts were also Mitsubishi built. I think that strategy would be a good model for selling Fiats, if they decide to use Chrysler showrooms.
Fiat seems to be a good corporate citizen with it Case/New Holland group here in the USA. They aren’t doing the slash and burn like what Daimler is doing with Sterling and Freightliner.
The 200c uses the Challengers 116″ wheelbase platform. If that showcar portends Project D, it will leave a huge gap in the lineup.
The Avenger / Sebring twins face pretty stiff competition in the midsize arena. The Korean designed fours that Chrysler is stuck with is a huge liability in such a competitive market. What would be ideal is Chrysler being able to retool Dundee to build a competitive engine ASAP. I don’t know if Chrysler has total control of that facility, but it would be nice. Hopefully the Fiat 1200cc motor will work in the ENVI extended range vehicles and solve the problem of what will be used as the gas motor.
Let’s just hope this marraige works out better than the last one!
With Mopar and Fiat joining forces, it maybe a good partnership. I Been driving Mopar since 1976, and I still own a Mopar. I also own a Suzuki SX4 crossover and its a excellant car. The Suzuki SX4 is a compact car developed by Japanese and Italian automakers Suzuki and Fiat and produced since 2006. I wonder what kind of new cars will be offered.
This is a lousy idea. You mean to say that Chrysler has no small engines.
Are there no smart American engineers anymore? Cerberus was so set on owning
Chrysler and then sat on there (Dan Quail) knuckles. What a bunch of useless
(so called) businessmen! They’re still putting 4 speed automatics in these
vehicles. And they wonder why people will not buy? Redesign that PT Cruiser.
It’s been 10 long years already. What about the 300C? Didn’t even change a
light bulb since 2005. And if they build anyplace but in the U.S. then I will
never buy another Mopar!!!!!!
Alot of good ideas and opinions here. Personally I believe Fiat has entered this deal with eyes open and good intentions. As Chrysler devotees,there is every reason for us to be sceptical and gun shy, we have been burned so often. There is too much upside to this deal for both parties and they should be fully aware of their intertwined co-dependency. A re-badged and re-bodied Alpha is just as appealing from a business case as a stand alone Alpha without the Chrysler facilities and network. Ergo, I predict you will see much co-mingling and synergies on a complex level, moreso than many predict on first examination. From the Fiat side, who wouldn’t want Rams,the Minivans and Jeeps in their product mix? A co-developed RWD platform would give Fiat the volume needed to power a future Alpha line and Chrysler a next generation large car platform. Maybe sometime soon an Imperial will come our way.Fiat has been down this “backs to the wall” route before, just like Chrysler,this creates a commonality that Daimler never understood or wanted to appreciate. I hope this workks on both sides of the Atlantic and the Germans finally get their lunch handed to them by the Italians. Some old memories die hard.
Leo…
Chrysler does have small engines, but they aren’t exactly the best engines in the world. They’re very loud, make no power until you get them around 5,000 RPM, and did I mention they are very loud? They’re “ok” in fuel milage, but no where near as good as what Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota offer. Not even close! These new world engines need to be redone and I believe they are working on this.
The PT Cruiser is done. Plain and simple! Its had its 10 yrs, sales are way down. Its built on a platform thats not used by any other vehicle (Neon Platform). Redesigning something that doesn’t sell, has been on the line for 10yrs, there’s no real market for this vehicle anymore. It just doesn’t make any sense. Typically its vehicles only survive 10yrs before its either dropped or replaced by something else. Its happened with both the Shadow and the Neon. Chrysler should be more focused on making an actual small sedan, not another small wagon type vehicle. IMO, it was really dumb to drop the Neon. Even if they wanted to make the Caliber, go ahead, make it, but don’t drop the Neon to do so. On top of making lots of big SUV’s it was probably one of the dumbest decisions Daimler made. It was right when the price of gas was skyrocketing too.
The 300C is in the middle of being redesigned as we speak. Rumored to look similar, but more attention will be paid to aerodynamics. Same goes with the Charger (rumored to be a retro type design).
You have to realize that things don’t happen over night. You can’t just simply make some changes to the car and build it in 3 months time. It just doesn’t happen that way. If it was that easy, we would have seen 14 new models out already. Cerberus hasn’t owned Chrysler very long. You aren’t giving them time to make the company better. The company is really in a mess and it just takes time to get it back to where it was in the early to mid 90’s. Again, it won’t happen over night.
This deal I think is a great thing for Chrysler. They really, really, really needed a partner to get things quickly turned around. If this goes through smoothly, Fiat will be the one who saves Chrysler. Of course the vehicles are going to be made in the US (or Canada/Mexico). It would make no sense to mass produce a vehicle in Europe and ship them over. That simply isn’t going to happen and wouldn’t make any sense for what Fiat wanted either. The factories are already in place in the US. They just need good car to build. Anyone who thinks this deal is a very bad idea or is dumb, you have to think about this, where would Chrysler be by the end of this year? Its a good chance, Chrysler wouldn’t exist, period! What is the better solution then? If you want to criticize, you have to have a solution of your own. They need help, and help fast. Currently, they are putting out half-ass products that aren’t cutting the mustard with the exception of the Challenger and the newly redesigned RAM. Those 2 vehicles right there will give you a good look at what future vehicles will be like as far as design and interior design/quality. They’re 200% better than any other Chrysler vehicle they sell.
I really hope they make the 200C and actually call it the 200C. The Sebring has been dealt such a black eye. I don’t think it would matter if they redesigned the Sebring. It would still have that black eye. The very same thing happened to the Neon. It was a terrible vehicle when it first arrived and killed the Neon name. Toward the end (2002-2006), it was a great little car. It didn’t get good reviews because it was always tarnished for its terrible times back when it first arrived on the market. I think GM is somewhat going to similar things with the Malibu. The initial Malibu wasn’t all that great. They redesigned it and is a great vehicle for them, but some people just can’t get past the initial Malibu.
IMO, Chrysler needs to do a lot of work of its own. I think they need to drop the Nitro, Commander, PT Cruiser, Compass, either the Durango or Aspen, and possibly even the Jeep Liberty. These are all un-necessary vehicles for them that don’t sell and aren’t worth upgrading to try and make them sell. They overlap too much of Chrysler’s brands. They can’t afford to be designing, updating, and building vehicles that compete with themselves in this economy. The vehicles that are left (except Patriot, Challenger, RAM) need to be upgraded with better interior materials and styles. They need a general update. I know they’re working hard on this. Hopefully they can be alive long enough to show all of they’re hard work.
Here are some good things many people don’t realize about Chrysler. Chrysler had less recalls in 2008 than any other car manufacturer. So why do people think Chrysler vehicles aren’t reliable, or not built well? They’re producing vehicles about as cheap as anyone in the US. They’re safety is about as good as it gets across nearly its entire lineup. Would be nice if every once in a while people looked at the good things a struggling company did instead of all this negative stuff.
I see good things coming from this for a lot of people. Sadly the union members won’t make as well out but hopefully keep their jobs. Dealers will get product. Customers will get a larger choice of vehicles. Hopefully Chrysler will be able to build Hemi cars that get to steal away Mercedes customers, I’m sure Fiat would love that. Maybe Chrysler will be able to get some Italian styling that made 1950s concept cars look Sooo Goood! I’m more optimistic about this because the new owners are passionate about enjoying life and beauty. Anyway time will tell.
Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino, cheers!
I agree with “A Chrysler Person”, people should start looking at the good things this company is doing. We all want it to be an all American company, but its way past that frame of thinking now.
They need a partner and I don’t believe joining with GM or Ford would do anything but totally destroy Chrysler. They would have too many overlapping vehicle lines and would of course save their
own and cut as much as they could from Chrysler. (Would anybody really want GM or Ford to take controlling rights to “HEMI”. That would be the end for me, I could’nt stomach it).
From what Iam hearing, Fiat’s intentions is to leave them (Chrysler)in control of the “Chrysler” part of the alliance, which is what we could really hope for. As for the Fiat name, “Yeeeech” I don’t know what kind of impact that will have on the buying public. I remember that term alot from when I was a kid. When Fiat was put into a sentence by anyone, it was not to give a compliment.
As a matter of fact, I actually thought it was another word for “junk”.
Getting back to the negativity side of this, you can blame the media for alot of it. Its what’s giving companies like Chrysler a bad name, and alot of mis-information to boot. I have read/heard/seen alot of news coverage back in October up until now that has never come true or amounted to anything. Alot of those “inside sources” are either making this stuff up or they haven’t a clue as to what’s really happening. The regular Joe who’s hearing/reading this stuff is taking it as gospel. Not good for morale. All I hear lately is about the autoworkers who need to take consessions for Chrysler to survive. “Is anybody listening out there?” Its already been said that if they worked for nothing it wouldn’t help the situation. Pay is only 7% of the operating costs. The government seems to be “out-to-lunch” on this also. How small minded are these people?
I am not an autoworker, but I am a tradesperson. I know what it takes to feed a family, and scrimp and save to try and eek out somekind of a life for yourself and a family. I am sick to death of how the general public treats and stereotypes those autoworkers. Its damn sickening. They think its all easy and Yacht clubbing. Jam them on an assemble line and see how well they do. I wonder how would they like working in the most stressful and volitile job ever. Every year you hear about the auto sector laying off. Imagine trying to sleep at night worrying about that. I am hearing radio news reports now about how autoworkers make $75 an hour in wages and benefits. All the general public hears is “wages”. They don’t hear/understand the “benefits” part of it. I make about $30 an hour, but I certainly don’t take home $30/hour, its more like $15/hour. I have to take taxes, insurance, pension, union dues, etc.. off of that so called $30/hour. So what is a working Joe not allowed to have a pension or insurance? Bugger-off I say.
Lets talk about the banks and financial institutions. I never hear so much as a peep about how they us their bailout money. They’ve been giving themselves bonuses off it, never heard any general public or Government requests that their CEO’s step down. Have they given up their jets?
Anyways, I hope Chrysler pulls out of this financial sector induced (not due to lack of “green” cars) mess way ahead of the competition. They can do it, we’ve seen it before.
To all the autoworkers out there, “Be Strong”.
I do have to say that I like the idea of a Chrysler-Fiat allience. Most people can’t get past the old Fiats. It is just like the people saying (ceartian senators) bashing American automakers for bad times in the early 80’s. Fiat has changed. They have changed a lot. They own Lancia, Alfa, Ferrai, and Maserati. And if Chrysler could “add” these brands to their portfolio, it would do them a world of good to these people who can only think about the bad things. Fiat has a lot of amazing vehicles in Europe, like the 500 small sedan. A great basis for the “Neon-esque” small sedan. It is critically aclaimed by so many. Fiat also backs their cars too, not with a Lifetime warranty, but with a nice 5yr 500,000km(310,000mi) warranty. Not bad eh? I think Chrysler can make it out of this, wait I don’t think I know so. The Minivan and K cars weren’t 100% Chrysler back in the day. Some had Mitsu engines, but they sold like hell! I think that a Chrysler worked “Fiat 500″ “Neon-esque” small sedan with either a Chrysler/Fiat or a 4cyl version of the Phoneix would be great. I would buy one!
I agree that it totally unrealistic to blame the management Cerberus installed just 18 months ago for Chrysler’s problems and lack of appropriate product. THAT can be blamed on the Daimler folks. I can’t think of a more inept group than those guys. A combination of tunnel vision and absolutely no understanding of the non-luxury segments of the American market. But rather than beat that dead horse…..
What I find really troublesome is that members of Congress (and Americans in general) can’t seem to look past the negative misinformation our misguided media has pumped out about Chrysler and the Big 3 in general. Are they just caught up in the Washington blame game? Are they that intellectually lazy? Seems that they spend all their energy pointing fingers rather than coming up with workable solutions. Golly, Washington needs a deep cleansing enema. You would think that as Americans they would want to assist and promote AMERICAN companies! When you have a vast segment of the U.S. Congress belittling American executives and having the audacity to tell them how to run their businesses you know this is going to be a very long road to turn the economy around.
The biggest challenge facing us is restoring confidence in ourselves, the American worker. Our political and executive leadership in this country better start laying a plan to make us #1 again in a variety of ways. You don’t do that by being negative and making pessimistic statements. I swear half our problem is that we’ve talked ourselves into a bad economy and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s pretty bad when the members of Congress think that everything we make in this country is of terrible quality and not what the market wants and that’s the cause of the decline of corporate America. What ever happened to good ol’ American pride? Remember a time when WE were the benchmark? Now we turn to Asia and Europe for that? God help us, because apparently we’ve become to lazy and dumb to help oursleves.
Asia and Europe?? Apparently we turn to Italy for “help”….
It’s what you do after being slaughtered by Daimler-Benz.
I too am a lifelong Chrysler buyer. I have always gotten great cars from Chrysler, mostly Plymouths. I was never for the Daimler-Chrysler get together. After Daimler cleaned Chrysler out of all its money and got rid of Plymouth they were ready to dump it and did. I think it would be great to see a Fiat 500 rebadged as a Plymouth.
I think we’ll get the 500 as a stand-alone FIAT, much like MINI a stand-alone (coming out of the ashes of Rover) with BMW. I don’t see it is a rebadge, because its appeal is the retro design recalling the 57 Fiat 500. But I think it could be sold out of Chrysler stores just fine. We may see Fiat’s larger small cars rebadged as Dodges, which would be good competition for Yaris, Fit, Corolla and the like.
Plymouth is part of my heritage too, but I think the best we can hope for is Dodge with a full line up of cars, and maybe Chrysler polished up as a semi-premium or premium brand–200 C gives me hope that is still possible. Can’t wait to see the new 300.
Didn’t the original Neon project take about two years from concept to product? The problem with Chrysler right now is that they need new products and lots of eager customers very soon or the lights go out. Combining with Fiat gives the company a new line of car platforms, engines and other small car technologies right off the bat. Italian design is very good in the motorcycle world. I can only assume that if the cars stank as bad as they did in the past then they would not sell very well in Europe either.
I remember the Renault fiasco very well. Renault left the US market ages ago and never looked back. The cars with cracked blocks from the factory, the “impossible to do anything there without complete disassembly” engine bay, the switches that lasted less time than the ones in British Spitfire cars, the strange control placement… I remember all of those things very well. I almost bought a Le Car before my dad talked me out of it. He saved my neck.
“I think we’ll get the 500 as a stand-alone FIAT, much like MINI a stand-alone (coming out of the ashes of Rover) with BMW.”
Wouln’t that be a neat trick! I like ‘em. Another “fad” car would certainly polish the image of the company more than all bailouts in the world.
as a child of mother mopar, at least this means generic motors will not own chrysler and butcher them up. when i heard the news of the fiat partnership i breathed a sigh of relief as the italians are a better fit with chrysler than the na, germans ever were. before the daimler blitzkrieg, chrysler was on its way to making sexy, desirable cars and trucks. is there such a thing as a sensual mercedes? even though there is a chance chrysler will be foreign owned again, i see italian partnership as a positive thing that will result in chrysler sticking around for a while.
and another thing, thanks to the buffoons in congress and their lap dog media many people believe chrysler is in dire straights in terms of staying around. they are studebakering chrysler. when the public thinks a car company is going away, they no longer want to buy they vehicles.
Chrysler needs to build advanced cars and simple cars. Advanced cars can have automatic trannys and touch screen eletronics, they need to balance themselves by building simple economy cars with 5-6sp manual transmisssions that are simple clean and easy to maintain. Not a nightmare to fix, mechanically or financially as in getting a lawyer to fight the dealer or mechanic who’s crooked as hell. Secondly, need to go back to the b- series van and build their own van chassis like the cb300-cb400 karyvans and rv’s of the 1970’s with cummings diesels. Then dodge will seriously compete since mercedes is pulling their shares out of chrysler. Lastly build a 6500-7000 series truck like the mexican dodge rams.
Hi, I am connected with Chrysler here in Italy (sorry, I can’t say more), and I think this is a good move. Products don’t overlap and no one could be more silly and supponent than German people.
I think also personal relationships between Chrysler guys and Italians will be much more funny and cooperative. At the end of the day, Italy is the first export market ouside NAFTA Countries (did you know that???), and most of all love luxury and styling of American cars, and the innovations Chrysler brought in the past.
So, Chrysler guys, keep pushing and Germans will understand they made a tremendous error in not keeping your jewels Brands! They will have some bad times with their new competitor!
Be proud of your products in general, you created the industry, you have to keep it.
I have concerns about Fiat owning 55% of the Chrysler. The only positive I can see is that Fiat and Chrysler can compliment each other instead of compete with one another unlike the Daimler situation.
Only time will tell…
Ciao
I suspect that that 55% number is going to give the Feds heartburn later but the good news is that Fiat is a going concern at the moment. The cars they build actually get bought by someone.
One of the lessons here is that, in time of major downturns, the top of the market gets hit first. Since Chrysler sells mostly larger and more expensive cars they bore the brunt of the economic pain. It’s simply tough to get a loan for a $27,000+ plus car right now and that describes most of the Chrysler line-up. The smaller commuter cars sold by the Japanese cost too much. If Chrysler and Fiat can bring in the small car segment through the current dealer network they’ll both at least have something to sell. Those folks buying cars costing a lot more are buying Mercedes and Lexus and not Chrysler.
Those of you that work for a living like I do buy a larger car for the wife and kids and a commuter car. Thats where cars like most of the Fiat line would shine. These cars are thrifty, well thought-out and stylish. Chrysler, if they were going to build cars like that at all would have had to have started a long time ago. The money for that is gone and they are out of time. This brings a partner that has thrived in that sector of the market for a long time.
I can’t help thinking this would be a great opportunity for Chrysler to bring back Plymouth, to offer more affordable transportation. This does not to mean ‘cheap’. They could for example keep the iPhone-like dashboard of the 200c concept for the higher end Chryslers and keep the true and tested if-one-breaks-I-can-still-use-the-rest knobs and buttons for Plymouth. Debatable! (I love the iPhone but I wouldn’t use it while driving) But more seriously, the New Plymouth could be a range of smaller cars with PT Cruiser styling, as was intended before the Stuttgart folks stepped in, or shall I say stepped on it!. Can you imagine for example how cute a baby Plymouth with PT Cruiser nose could look based on the new Fiat 500 platform? Don’t forget the Voyager. Following in the path of the next Charger (the design of which will allegedly take cues form the iconic 1968 Charger) and Challenger, a revival of the Road Runner for good measure, in a modern 2 or 4 doors coupe guise, with a full range of powertrains, from Electric to full blown HEMI of course! No doubt reviving Plymouth, with a range of Phoenix engines, appropriately enough, would necessitate a minimum investment, but done right, it could prove lucrative on relatively short term. If bringing back Plymouth means making them (at first?) on the smaller Fiat platforms, so be it. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t be distinctive.
I personally think this Fiat–Chyrsler Deal can be great for both companies. And as for Fiat’s, I have rented and driven a few of them while in Italy and Europe and they are very nice, dependable, fun cars to drive. With no overlap of vehicles, it is win-win and maybe the rebadge fiats can be badged Plymouths, and bring back a great brand with a small car lineup. The old Valiants and Dodge Darts were great little cars. And please get Daimler out of the equation, because all the did was rape and screw everything Chyrsler. Must be pay back for the old Sherman tank!
My best buddy had a Fiat 124 Spyder with metallic blue paint and tan top/interior. What a little beauty that thing was! I can’t remember if it had the 1800 cc or 2000 cc motor but it was plenty for the car’s weight and size. Darned thing was absolutely reliable as well, never broke down once, that I know of. (Although it took nearly 6 weeks to get an exhaust system from Italy.) If they can solve the parts issue, I’m sure a lot of people would be interested in a Fiat product. If they have a replacement product for that 124, I’d be interested! (or an Alfa Spyder,- wipes drool from chin!)
Speaking as an Canadian expat living in Poland for the last 8 years I’ve had my hands on both Mopars and the European stuff AND have owned a 2001 Fiat Punto since new. This is an entry level model classified as a sub compact. After driving Chevys, Fords, numerous Kcars, Omni, Shadow and other larger mopars, I’ve got to say that this Fiat and even the models prior to it and after 1994 beat the US stuff hand down for economy, power and handling. I’ve got electronic power steering, 52 miles per gallon,wicked handling and good performance out of a 1.2 litre engine.
Now, the newer generation Puntos, Bravo’s and not to mention Alfa’s are just drop dead gorgeous, especially for being just a common car. Interior plastics beat the US products without arguement. When I came down here I used to scoff at the older Euro cars, but now times have changed and when I see the odd Sebring or Avenger (which don’t sell because they can’t compete!)I hang my head and stay silent.
I think that this should be a pretty good deal because these companies are on a level playing field. Chrysler had quality problems, Fiat had quality problems. Perhaps they still have them
:) Both companies are still fighting that bad rep, but seem to be coming out of that rut with some really fine products (Chrysler’s got to change their plastics technology though. That crap is totally unacceptable here, even in an entry level car). On the subject of quality,lets face it – it was always little things that would go wrong with Mopars that would irk customers. The powertrain would go forever. It’s exactly the same with Fiats. Proven reliable engines that run with no major problems. It’s the little things that go wrong which make customers return to the dealer. Also, Chrysler was always the underdog of the Big 3, Fiat’s the underdog here. So really there shouldn’t be an ego problem with this partnership.
One interesting point is that the gas in Europe is 95 Octane minimum. We also have 98 premium and Shell sells 99+ for people who like to spend lots of money. I wonder how Fiat/Chrysler will handle the 87 octane issue and what consequences that will have on performance?
If Chrysler doesn’t mess with the look of the cars too much (putting a cross grill on everything, for example) then some really cool cars should hit the North American market.
cheers
PS- for those who keep remembering and complaining about FIAT Spyders of the ’70’s, just let it go folks, let it go :D
Tom, Europe has different measurements for octane. I don’t know what the US equivalents are but they are on a different system; they don’t use race fuel for economy cars!
I had a Fiat 131/Brava I bought brand new back in 1978. Why did I buy it? The Aspen/Volare was terrible, the Ford Fairmont wasn’t much better and pretty plain looking while a BMW of that size was twice the Fiat price. I ran the crap out of it, it had a great DOHC engine and would still have it if it hadn’t been wrecked. My wife usually drove it while I was stuck with a 6 cylinder Duster. The late 70’s Fiat line including the 124 Spyder convertible and the X 1/9 were some pretty good cars in their brackets. Fiats from the 60’s and the early 70’s were the rust wagons.
Thanks Dave, I didn’t know that :) I just assumed that the compression was a bit higher on these small four cylinder cars. Now you’ve got me curious – I’m going to try to find those equivalents somewhere.
Ok, that didn’t take long. looks like US 87 octane is like European 91-92 (which doesn’t exist). the 95 octane we’ve got is equivalent to the 90-91 premium found at most Canadian stations.
My owners manual states that I am not to use anything under 95 (Euro system)so that might still be an issue in North America. While people might pay extra for premium in their Alfa, I don’t think they would be too excited about paying the extra for their Panda. But, I suppose it’s just a question of programming the ECU. We’ll see.
Looks like you’re right.