New Chrysler Fatigue?
I’m afraid I have to say I’m suffering from New Chrysler fatigue. Part of it is because we just did this, with that ‘Get ready for the next 100 years’ nonsense. That, and the 9 nears of being the ugly stepchild with equally ugly vehicle interiors, coupled with them telling a local business that my family has supported for almost 30 years to take a hike has really put a damper on my enthusiasm.
To be completely honest I’m still trying to figure out how much I care.
This is a very weird place for me to be, as all I’ve driven is Chrysler products. But the company that designed them was three Chryslers ago (the PT was engineered by the independent Chrysler, then produced by the DCX version, the Cerberus version, now by the many cooks in the kitchen version). Despite some hits along the way, the company has by and large been going the wrong way since Eaton sold it down the river. I hope the current incarnation can pull itself out of the Vortex of Death, but after having bought into the Ceberus version hook line and sinker I’m having trouble doing it again a year later.
Am I alone? Frankly I hope so, because if there are a lot of me out there it doesn’t bode well. Pete DeLorenzo said this about GM, but I think it applies to Chrysler too…before going after conquest sales they have to get the loyalists back in the camp.
Prove to me you’re worth getting emotionally invested in. Again.
I understand what you mean. I’d like to keep buying Chrysler products, am holding out to see what the 2011 model 300C will be like. But this has been a long ride.
I just started reading “Birth of Chrysler Corporation,” by Carl Breer. It reminds me why I care about this company and continue to care about the direction it goes. It’s more than just the fortunes of this single company, its about the past creativity and success of individuals and a nation, that I hope will not be quelled in my lifetime. Chrysler is a symbol of that.
But Chrysler in its current form has alot to overcome. I agree wholeheartedly it must strive to keep its good customers. Fiat, to be successful, needs to cultivate the men and women that bought Chrysler products in the past.
I think Allpar does such a freat service for members of the Chrysler community. I also think its a great place for Fiat leadership to look for some valuable, free information on the direction this company should take, and its priorities going forward. I hope they will examine this, examine what is said on the CAB and chryslerweblog.
…meant to say “great” service.
I’m with both of you 100%.
I have a neighbor who finally decided to support Chrysler and … there’s really not much for him to buy. Same for me, really. Where I live, anything with a Hemi is overkill, and while I really like the Challenger, the feel is too heavy for my taste. Much as I hate to say it, I like the current Mazdas. They seem more Neon-like. So I’ll wait.
That’s part of it too; nothing in the current lineup makes me go WOW!!
I went WOW when the Lebaron coupe came out in 1987.
I went WOW when the Neon was released in 1994.
And I went WOW when they debuted the PT in 1999.
Nothing currently inspires me; though the looks we’ve gotten on the upcoming interiors definitely gives me hope. Luckily I’m not in the market, and don’t hope to be for some time. I hope when I am that Chrysler’s around and making something that makes me go WOW. I keep a car a long time and ‘eh’ just doesn’t do it for me as a reaction.
The PT has also revealed to me that it’s *eaxctly* the type of vehicle I want. The styling is unique and it’s incredibly useful for it’s size. It’s almost the perfect package (more MPG being the shortfall). Point is, I know what I want, and it’s something that should be available when I’m in the market as people used to being able to haul stuff will be looking for smaller, more efficient utility vehicles.
Currently? The Kia Soul kinda intruigues me, but I haven’t had an up close look at one.
I sure hope they’re around, but I’m not jumping in with both feet just yet. I’m not confident about what’s in the water…
The 1998 Concorde and 1999 300M and LHS were cars that made me say, WOW!
And the 2005 300C for sure. I thought the Concorde / LHS and 300C were just concepts the first time I saw photos, but they were the production models.
I’m ‘keeping my fingers crossed’ there will be a 2011 Dodge Hornet and 2011 Chrysler 300 that evoke the same response.
I’m with you – well, not on the 1998 Concorde, but on the 1999 300M and LHS; the original Intrepid; the 1994 Neon; the 1993 Ram; etc. Not so much the original J-triplets but that was before I was in one (I still think they should’ve upped the power, at least as an option.) And then the Hemi cars… I didn’t really love the 300 styling and thought the interior was drab, but the Hemi is another story. Still wow. And the SRT4.
To be fair, many were wowed indeed by the 2009 Ram, and its beating Ford at long last in comparison tests says a lot, since the magazines are unlikely to want to annoy the legions of F-150 owners out there.
Loved the 300M and LHS; unfortunately they did little with either one to keep them updated. Well,they did can the LHS name and the car originally called the Concorde, moving the Concorde name to the Car Formerly Known As LHS, simultaneously diluting the brand by having ‘lesser’ content levels on what was the LHS and confusing people as to what was what. Made about as much sense as Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler Neons.
If they can show me they’re not going to do that stuff anymore it would help restore my faith.
The lineup has been wanting for some time. The cars in the pipeline just aren’t there.
It’s a bit hard to get excited about the Journey or a Challenger I can’t even afford to buy. The hemi cars are fine if you have a wallet deep enough to feed them. We’ll keep our Caravan and our PT Cruiser for a while and see how it goes. The current incentives seem to get lot’s of press but why throw away a perfectly good car when you end up getting the same thing over again. Janet likes the new vans but is happy with the one she drives now…
I liked the PT when they first showed up and wanted one then. I eventually got my chance but that is about the only car in the bunch that I had any realistic desire for. I’ve kind of ended up in an attitude of “what the heck are they doing now” after the Daimler merger ended and there was nothing new coming from Chrysler but the Journey and the Challenger. Regular drivers seem to have been forgotten somewhere along the way. I don’t need a hemi to drive to work.
Every time I drive my son’s 1992 short wheelbase Voyager, I can’t help but wonder, “Why won’t Chrysler build these anymore?” Mind you, this vehicle still feels solid after 17 years. It has the 2.5 liter four with the 3 speed auto. I had a 2.7 liter V6 Charger as a rental when I was on vacation. That four cylinder Voyager has better pedal response and fuel economy than that new Charger did.
I don’t understand the “nothing new, woe is me” mentality. If the Challenger isn’t something to get excited about, what is? (BTW, it comes in a V6 version too, y’know) The new Rams are beautiful! What about the upcoming 200C? The next gen Durango and Grand Cherokee or the 2011 Charger? I drive an ‘06 Charger SE with the 3.5 and I love it. The 2.7 is a dog – there for the fleets, but in reality there is not a big fuel economy difference. They stopped building short wheelbase minivans because most people opted for the long version anyway. We’ve got a cool RWD platform, which I never thought would happen, a great muscle engine with the Hemi, and the PT will be around for another year. That’s all good news!
I have been having the same thoughts of late. Is the Chrysler I once cared for so much still alive? I used to swear you could feel the heart and soul of Walter Chrysler and the three musketeers in every vehicle they built…even the much (unjustly so) maligned K-Cars and Omni/Horizons had that little “wink” in the lay of the windshield, and the look of the grill, that let me know the heritage was alive and well.
Now…I dont see it anymore.I keep hoping to hear something to give me hope, but then I read about some of the new stuff in the line and realize its not the product Chrysler needs. Even the Fiat stuff…sounds interesting, but it just doesnt feel right.
I dont know what to do either. I’m do know I’m not jumping ship to anybody else. I’ll stubbornly hold the line, and stick with whatevers left of Chryslers legacy and hope for the best. Chrysler has been down before. This time, it lingered on the mat a bit, both eyes are swelling shut, and theres a faint trickle of blood on the chin, but the old horse is still in the fight! I somehow still have hope that it will rise again, recover from this current mess, and regain all of our confidence and keep our hope alive!!
I guess we can all agree Chrysler lost its way over the last decade. Like many of you, as much as I want to buy another Chrysler, I don’t see much in the current line-up that excites me (or any other family member) except for the Challenger and the Ram. Unfortunately for Chrysler, I’m not sure I could live with either of those for daily transportation. They’d make great toys if I had the money in my budget for extra toys.
But, Chrysler isn’t necessarily alone when it comes to lack of inspiring product. I look around and I don’t see anything, foreign or domestic, that makes me go “Wow!”. Nothing that gives me that “I’ve got to have it” feeling. The last generation Mini intrigues me a bit. Perhaps too small. Sure, if I had deeper pockets I might like a 911 Carrera. A Viper would be fun too. But for daily transportation I want something more practical and fuel efficient.
Right now I can’t even narrow down the type of vehicle I want let alone the manufacturer. One thing I do know, I don’t want another minivan. My Butane Blue 2005 Grand Caravan with 105K miles has been great, but my kids say they’ll kill me in my sleep if I buy another. I guess I’m safe because I just don’t like the styling of the current Chrysler minivans. So, what do I buy?
Billy:
Challenger is cool, and the V6 version is peppy enough to deliver on the looks (not always the case with base versions of these types of cars). But it’s not what I need.
Trucks have never really done too much for me, though the interior of the new Ram is definitely a move in the right direction.
200C could be huge for the company; it’s a market they need to be more than a SNL punchline in. But I’ve gorwn to like sitting up a little higher so much that I don’t think I can go back. Ditto Charger.
It’s more than the product line though; it’s the continual organizational upset that’s been around since Daimler blew into town. Unending changes in the organization; recurring “New” versions of the company, and repeated claims of “we’ve really got it right THIS time” that have weighted me down. My fear is that we’ve long passed the ‘rolling eyes’ stage with the general public and moved into the ‘whatever’ stage as people continue to drive confidently past the C/D/J dealer to the Honyota shop next door.
The failure of the Cerberus version of Chrysler happened because the company was inherently and fundamentally weakened by gross mismanagement at all levels of the organization and it could not survive the economic meltdown. The latest version is free of some of the dead weight that dragged the last one down, but there are still huge mountains left to climb.
Last time I bought in. This time they’re gonna have to show me more, as in strong product AND an ability to cut through the malaise the new product is going to be greeted with and successfully market it.
They need another PT Cruiser type launch….where people buy the car DESPITE it wearing a Chrysler badge. There wasn’t a cushion before (as proven by the bankruptcy) and there sure isn’t going to be one now. If they don’t produce class leading vehicles in every segment in which they compete they don’t have a chance.
I’m almost always a ‘glass half full’ person, but I just can’t do it again. I hope they prove me wrong. And I’m wrong I’ll gladly jump on the bandwagon – but not before I see that the wagon isn’t going to crash and burn yet again.
And when they do another vehicle that attracts people in, they have to do it RIGHT. Let’s go over some of the reasons they can’t sell cars –
1) Neon: Phenomenal car but the cost-cutters made it a laughingstock for reliability. If you didn’t have one of the BEST dealers, you came out with the impression that it was the biggest piece of junk sold in America since the last “true” Ford Escort.
2) Cirrus. Actually reliability was fine but the big black dot in CR essentially killed sales, and that appears to have been almost entirely due to ONE supplier.
3) PT Cruiser. Their treatment of that car was despicable. Here it’s not so much reliability as verbal abuse and the second generation. Over and over we were told by CHRYSLER people that it was a failure, that it had all these design flaws, etc., etc. Then the second generation eliminated much of the character of the first and gave the interior a cheaper feel with rock-hard seats lacking the armrests.
4) 1976 Volare. Okay, you knew it had to be on the list.
5) Most of all, as Rich was saying, the “our old cars were rubbish, our new ones are great” syndrome that started with the K-cars. Then the LH/J/PL. Then the Daimlerized cars, most noticeably the Caliber.
I do agree about the ‘chrysler fatigue syndrome’ also. I recently purchased a 2005 magnum rt, and while I really like the car, it has some quality issues especially in the interior finishing and in some less visible areas of the car. Other than the 200C or dodge demon, there is not much I am excited about either. I would love a new crossfire or pacifica for chrysler and a small dodge car.
BUT, until Fiat/Chrysler improves it’s Customer/Dealer experience, it doesn’t matter what they build. My buying experience made me want to return the car because of the LOUSY dealer treatment I received. (I have not returned and will look for someone else to service my maggie). IMHO this is Chrysler’s #1 problem. ARE YOU LISTENING, CHRYSLER? You can’t sell a car if people won’t go to the dealership. They are your front line troops, and they suck, big time. Before I purchase another Chrysler product, they’d better have decent product and a Drastically improved dealer body. I am fatigued by unsatisfactory product and service from a company I used to love.
And all of those things stick with customers. Heck, they are sticking with LOYALISTS here on Allpar. If that’s not a red flag I don’t know what the heck is.
Frankly, with the way the economy tanked the Cerberus version never had a chance. Even if they had the perfect plan and the perfect people, they had no time to implement it before everything blew up. But the needs aren’t the same – a serious look at past history and learn all about what worked and what didn’t. Chrysler is the poster child for both what to do and not do and all Fiat has to do is learn the history of Chrysler to learn what will and won’t work in this market. This weekend I’m going to make the time to express these thoughts on the CAB, the good the bad and the ugly.
In reading these posts, a couple of things become clear:
1. Everybody has different needs and tastes (Whoa! There’s a shocker!:-)
2. What one waxes nostalgic about, another recalls with abject horror
With all the problems my 1977 Volare Road Runner had early on, I still remember it being a fun car to cruise in that never failed to turn heads.
What happened this time around was the equivalent of being dangled by your feet off the roof of a skyscraper. Lets hope it was frightening enough for all involved (and it ain’t over yet) to make everybody toe the line and try harder.
I like most of you, am hoping for the best. I think most of you are wrong on the Challenger, I’ve talked to several owners of 5.7 hemi cars and they say they are getting 20 mpg in combined driving which is equal to my PT. So I say DAMN I coulda’ had a V8. As far as looking forward the electric cars seem to have some interesting features and choices especially the sports car. I just hope they do’nt go overboard onthe small car bandwagon. the US will never be like Europe. They lean towards the tiny cars for a number of reasons. Space,cost of fuel, Parking. They need to find a middle ground of fuel economy, size, alternative motovation, and style,because we Americans LOVE! STYLE.
I sold Chyrsler Plymouth and Dodges from 1984-1990. I still remember the couple that test drove a Dodge Aries and did not like the ride, so they asked to drive a Plymouth Reliant. Same size and make tires, (I checked afterwards they had about the same air pressure) and they came back gushing about the ride of the Reliant. They bought the Reliant partialy, because of the ride, but becuase they new that the Plymouth was a better car tahn a Dodge. As you all know same car, made on the same line, with a different badge and grille. The mind can paly tricks with the facts. This is why I am afraid of the Fix It Again Tony tie up. Older folks (44) like me remember when FIAT left the U.S.A. My hope is the younger generation does not know FIAT, and will give the new Chrysler a chance. My lease on my Durango is up in January and I still have no clue what I am going to do. If the residual value wasn’t higher than current dealer retail, I might think about buying it. I am sure with the credit crunch, I will not find a lease (or finance) deal like the Durango was.
Rich,
I have sat in a Kia Soul, and my wife and I really liked it. (Please do not throw me off the AllPar website Dave for saying that) It was a bright red sport with a red and black/gray interior, loaded with auto and sunroof for $19,200.00
I find these comments interesting. I think right now Chrysler is at a crossroad. I also think that people are in a car funk meaning nothing excites anybody. I think this is directly related to the bad economy. People are buying cars only for the dire need of practical transportation. My brother in law works at the Ford plant a few miles away that builds the Mustangs and Mazda 6s. Hes been laid off for weeks on end, please dont tell me the Mustang is not an exciting car. Chrysler must knuckle down, improve quality, control cost and do a better job of marketing the current line up they have. If they can lower the prices on their smaller cars, improve quality across the board, get some Fiats over to attract attention, and better market their Jeeps and trucks they might make it long enough to introduce a new pipeline of cars.
Maybe I’m the eternal optomist but Chrysler has been on the brink before and has come back. Maybe vehicles that have style like the 200C and the new 300 will take the place of the Sebrings & Calibers. Can you imagine if they took a 05 PT and put some technology from this decade in it what they could sell. Just a thought
Glenn E.,
Fiat still sells the high end Abarth SUVs with leaky windows. I certainly hope they don’t expect to sell cars like that in the US. Face it: The imports sell because Chrysler, Ford and GM screwed as many customers as they could get away with.
Those Volari’s I remember seeing with the hood sticking up one side at the hinge end on half of the cars I saw back in ‘79 or so. It made Chrysler look idiotic.
The Neon issues were taken care of by my dealer pretty well at the time but the temerity it took to try to get away with it still bothers me.
I had the last of the true Escorts and I wish I had not. Quality was apparently “Job None”.
I had a Chevette…enough said.
The reason these companies are hurting is because of the pain they have caused in the marketplace. Chrysler didn’t support the dealers, the cars or the customers for too long. Those who survived remember. It is why I will never buy a Ford today no matter what. How many other experiences like that are out there?How many because of Chrysler?
I buy Chrysler cars purely due to hard economics: These cars have served their purpose economically in the past. They have been affordable, comfortable and stylish with good all around performance. Every Chrysler I have had in the past has filled the need admirably and a lot more. If this was to change I would likely buy from one of the imports as GM is moldering as we speak and Ford is covered above. I could care less about the organization. Either they compete for my hard earned cash or they do not. My family (my Mom’s side anyway) has bought Chrysler cars since world war two.
This is my first really wordy post in some time. I have not really been all that interested in what is going on with Chrysler, GM or the US auto industry in general since the Obama decision to toss them into bankruptcy.
Why is that he sez? Well, it all seems to me to be a case of closing the gate after the horses have run off. The US auto industry needed fixing in the seventies and eighties. Now we are propping up our homeland industrial base by giving long overdue support to one of our few remaining “smoke stack” industries. That this is necessary is something I have said several times before. But somehow, after it became apparent that to do this meant thousands upon thousands would still be lost plus the almost total annihilation of the “character” of Chrysler and GM, there is little to excite me.
I worked at a Fiat dealer when they exited the US. At that time we would say if you were in a quiet garage with an Italian car, you could listen to it rust. Fiat never had a very good reputation here and there was little demand for them except for the sports cars (X1-9 and the 124 Spyders). Most of the few people who were aware that Fiat even sold cars here had little. If any, reason to give them a second look. Yes, now it’s a re-invented company in a new world by comparison but I don’t know if I could be convinced to buy a Fiat, even with a Dodge emblem on the trunk.
Crappy dealers you say? I worked for several, import and domestic. And most (but not all) of them were all cut from the same cloth. And if the first generation of owners were wonderfully honest, when it came time for others, often including offspring, took over, the desire to make that buck NOW became their driving force. The problem for the domestic dealers, and the biggest reason for reducing their numbers, was the inability to sell enough cars/truck any kind of real profit. This led to many unscrupulous practices throughout the industry both in sales and service. Detroit never understood the practice of protecting their dealers’ territory. Ford came out with the Bronco, Chevrolet came out with the Blazer and pretty soon every division had to have its own version. Then came the smaller versions and that too spread to the all divisions. Same thing with the pony cars and everything else. Sure there may be only one dealer for each GM line (Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac) in a given area, but they were all selling the same vehicles!
The imports are almost as bad. Ever see one of the current KIA ads on TV where they brag about going from one line of cars when they first came over here to the twelve (or is it thirteen) they now sell? Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, VW all have SUV’s. I have no idea how many different SUV’s Toyota sells but there are several. It costs big bucks to own a dealership in the US today. And the possibility of making a profit keeps shrinking. With way too many dealers selling so many versions of the same vehicles the competition is fierce. Yes, there are basically honest dealers out there but even with them, the buyer must do his/her homework and learn to NOT be a sucker. The day of the good ol’ hometown dealer that had your best interests at heart is long gone. Nowadays you have a better chance of finding an honest attorney.
I feel, as does just about everyone else who has commented here, that there will little, if any, Chrysler we knew and loved in the new version. Nor is there going to be much of the GM I grew up with remaining. But then, the vehicle lines were being blurred since the sixties when all the model proliferation began. So this is just another step in the total elimination of the old US auto industry. Maybe we will still have a “Big Three” in the American auto manufacturing business. And that would be good for our country, but I see little resemblance to the “Big Three” of the past.
So, I would get a Ram or Caravan if I were to buy a truck but for a car, right now I would have to take a serious look at a Sonota.
I too have been a Chrysler Fan most of my life. My parents always had GM Products in the driveway, but in 1984, My parents brought home the first of many Dodge Caravans. Ever since then, it’s been nothing but Chrysler products for me and my family. I had done a non paying summer internship at the Chrysler Stamping Plant in Twinsburg, and 2 Summers after graduating from Kent State was actually called in for a job interview. I’ll just get my 15th year of employment completed this December, shortly before the plant closes in March. The sad thing is, Twinsburg has one of the most modern press rooms in North America with nothing in it older than 14 years. I was excited about the whole Fiat Merger, and still think it will work much better than Daimler’s take over. It’s hard for me to feel to excited now knowing we’re part of “oldco”, and destined for the trash heap. I didn’t abandon Chrysler, Chrysler abandoned me…
I think that wherever I end up after TSP Closes, my hard earned money will be spent at a Ford or GM Store. I have two neighbors that work for those companies and will try to support my friends.
I think the two pages in the link below say all that needs saying regarding what Daimler did to us.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9v_sxqERqvMC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=gutting+of+chrysler’s+culture&source=bl&ots=g6OVcIvRCG&sig=n30hd6nBziqKB6T16SMsy9u5kOI&hl=en&ei=NWY_StxK3bC2B7OM9fgP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2
I like my 1996 Plymouth Neon (made at Belvidere, IL. Been there.), the cleanest one in existence. It will probably outlast me.
My spouse’s 2007 PT is the first car she ever drove that she’s in love with. She once was pretty wild about a Pontiac TransAm.
A few years ago, while in Fort Collins, CO, I read: “When was the last time you saw a last generation Mercury Cougar (Mazda made at Flat Rock, MI. Been there.)or an Eagle Talon (Mitsubitchi, made at Normal, IL. Been there.)?
“Although most look as if they’ve been in demolition derbies, many Neons of the same era are still getting from point A to point B. The Cougars and Talons have long been in the graveyard.”
I know why the NJ Turnpike Authority chose Neons over Civics in ‘96. I know why Geico just chose Malibus over Camrys.
Boy, I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many post that were this down on Chrysler. Makes me wonder if they’re beyond the point of no return regardless of what FIAT or anyone else does.
They need something that will generate excitement and they need it quick. I don’t care whether it’s a diesel minivan that gets an honest 35 MPG, the 200C, or something else at the low end like a modern incarnation of the Neon. Otherwise, I don’t see anything in the truck dominated line-up that is going to help sales rebound once the economy starts moving in the right direction. I have no confidence that they’ll ever be able to create a Camry or Accord killer. How many times have they tried and failed?
Without new product sales will never recover with the economy. My fear is that they are going to remain flat at their current depressed levels. Considering that under Daimler they brought more new/redesigned products to market faster than at any other time in Chrysler’s history, I can’t believe all of them have been misses. And I mean ALL of them. Some were/are great vehicles, just wrong for the current market conditions. Think of how many have already been killed off. The Pacifica. The Magnum. The Durango/Aspen. The Crossfire. The Dakota, Viper and PT are hanging on by a thread. And there’s been talk of the Compass (and maybe even the Patriot and Caliber) being axed.
To be caught yet again without a competitive product in the compact and mid-size sedan segments it just bewildering and frustrating. As a Chrysler fan and consumer it’s disappointing. It’s deja vu all over again. In Chrysler’s case, that’s a more accurate than redundant statement. It just keeps happening again and again and again. Not since the Dart/Valiant days have they had a worthy competitor to the rest. They’ve become the AMC of the industry with a small and shrinking following I fear.
“Considering that under Daimler they brought more new/redesigned products to market faster than at any other time in Chrysler’s history, I can’t believe all of them have been misses.”
I don’t think they really did bring more new/redesigned products to market faster; without having any figures, you gotta consider the 1970s when we had that proliferation of A and B bodies… the 1990s pre-Daimler saw a slower launch schedule in terms of number of models because, aside from LH, they decided not to proliferate so much. Think about the Neon – they could lower costs by having a single model for all three brands, without different sheet metal, etc. They were following the Japanese model of cost reduction through simplification, which allows for increased investment in the basic vehicle. Daimler… had no product discipline at all.
One of the major problems of DCX had NOTHING to do with product. It was the image. Daimler was constantly talking about how crappy Chrysler was, how great German Engineering was. Every German Engineering marketing campaign cut Chrysler sales and raised Volkswagen sales. Even if their new vehicles HAD been better, they would not have been recognized as such. The lack of respect of the owners was caught and adopted by the media and the general public.
The other main problem is that Chrysler’s EXCELLENT “tuner” — not performance tuner, but the guy who was the last word in the “feel” of the vehicles — was put down and left. Daimler liked everything to feel heavy, and the heavier, the better. That turned off existing LH/PL/JA customers and did not attract new ones, for the most part.
The other other main problem was “PT syndrome.” The German cars were supposed to be the successes. Anything else that dared to be successful was stomped on.
Dave, you raise some good points. Daimler crowed about German engineering but never took the time to make people believe the Chrysler products they were producing actully contained any of it. Instead of Chrysler quality making a surge upward, Mercedes was drifiting downward.
The 10 years of Daimler wasn’t a total loss I don’t think. I have the sense that the LX’s did benefit from Mercedes influences and probably made them the overall best RWD cars Chrysler has ever produced. Too bad they haven’t been more widely accepted.
You also raised some good points which I didn’t point out that I was agreeing with, but I was.
The LX is a mixed bag. Yes, it definitely benefited from the Mercedes rear suspension! But the “heavy feel” was disliked by many people, the interior was way below Concorde/300M/LHS standards (and Charger below Intrepid), and overall, I suspect a continuation of the front-drive LH would have sold better and at a far higher profit margin.
The ideal was the original plan, to split the large cars into RWD and FWD. Then we could have had an Intrepid AND a Charger. It was designed for that. Admittedly the Charger would not have handled as well; but the high sales of the “staple” Intrepid would have reduced the overall cost of both. The FWD models would keep the V6, the RWD would get the Hemi… keeping production somewhat under control. The police would flock to the Charger, the public to the Intrepid.
I just had a neighbor almost buy a 300 when he saw a Concorde on the lot and decided he could do better… at Toyota with an Avalon.
Again the issue is where is the Beef? Maybe Chrysler needs to learn a lesson in not overselling the product till they know what product they have? What I mean is, I’ve been in a few companies that sell and produce the product before Engineering has fully vetted the design. I know you can’t wait for everything to be perfect, however there has to be some process in place to get a better product out the door. My main complaint on any new vehicle is the price vs the expectation that it is going to do what I want for the money. Where as I can buy a used vehicle, work on it as it needs it, afford it, and it does what I want till I can’t fix it, get tired of fixing it, or no longer have a use for it. Hence I haven’t gotten rid of many vehicles in the last 20 years.
What happens is Sales in order to sell a product thinks the way to sell a car is to over sell the car. Instead of just making a competent car to begin with, we have to build a toyota or honda killer. That is like putting a middle age couch potato up against a Olympic sprinter. You would think Chrysler would learn. No, they still without doing any homework, or listening to their engineering people, or people who work on the lines, they make these huge assumptions without any proof. Sales says it the greatest, so it must be true. Even if the engineer says it doesn’t pass or meet specifications. Or lord forbid it does meet specifications, if you put this part on your kids trike it will fall off within 3 miles, yet we have speced the same part for our chrysler part, because its cheaper, and will make us more profitable.
This is the problem with American Management, instead of making more profit, why not make more reliable, dependable, fuel efficient, and lower cost of ownership, to help the customer, keep the dealer from screwing it up because it doesn’t break, and making everyone from production, sales, management, dealer, and customer to have a vehicle that exceeds their expectations. Management will tell you it cost to much to do it that way. Why, because they can’t cut enough corners to make it cheap enough to guarantee their bonuses. Hence why Toyota, Honda, continually beat american manufactures. They continually build in quality. They have been doing it from a guy named Demmings, an American. Yet, we can’t do this, and people are tired of the crap. Unless you can work on them yourself, and know when a problem is a problem, or something you can let slide for awhile. Which most people cannot, they rely on the car company to make a good product.
No Chrysler/Fiat, get your heads out of your asses. Build a good solid car as a first step. If you can’t your done. I don’t care how flashy it looks, it has to work. Don’t promise the sun, moon, and stars, just deliver on a simple premise value for the money, not cheap, we have korean for that, china entering with Hummer, and cheap cars.
Chrysler needs to compare themselves to no one. They need to think they have the worst product on the market. Why!!! Because of the attitude change. We are going to improve our cars, our quality, our customers are going to get a product that is better than they expect. Without this attitude change they will continue to make the same as they have always made. I think they have declined, over the years. I think expectations have changed. Now there is competition, not just 3 brands, but what 100 brands of cars out there? You can’t afford to be so, so in quality. You must retain your loyal customers, attract new customers not for one car purchase, but a lifetime. You must do that with every customer. Only with that attitude, will you make a profit, and be in the business for a long time.
The economic down turn is good it weeds out marginal suppliers, it forces management to change, or else. The problem is not cost, that is managements excuse, for crappy management. If we can just cut cost we can be competitive. Okay, you cut cost, your now competitive, with the Koreans, what are we going to do when China, India, 3rd World countries produce good cars for $4000 – $6000, and make the koreans worry? How are we going to be competitive? What do we have to stand on? Oh yeah, we got it right. Forget the slogans. Tell sales to shutup. Marketing to shutup. Understand why the press, and average people have a problem with chrysler. The problem is they got screwed some time.
I got the Otis ride on a 1991 Plymouth Sundance. I bought lots of chryslers, none from that dealer. The main reason we bought was because of a friend who worked for them and went above and beyond for that dealership, and chrysler. He made us feel that if there were any problems he/the dealer would take care of it. We fell in love with chrysler because of this service. Yeah, after warranty we paid him, but he was reasonable on the rates, and did a good job. Those are the type of people that need to lead Chrysler, not the management types. Statistical control of parts, suppliers, and quality first, not just lip service. That will make Chrysler an awesome company. They had this after WWII because they followed Demmings quality control for war time production. They did it without thinking, untill management got greedy, and started cutting corners. Have you noticed a theme, managment. Management that doesn’t know which is incompetent, or management that doesn’t care. Which one will we get with the new chrysler. Lets pray we get Managment that CARES about US instead of their own immediate pocket. Iaccoca said the buck stops here, and set the tone. Chrysler managment is getting around the government pay limit. HMMMMMM…. what tone are they setting. Iaccoca and the Retired Chrysler Employees Volunteered their help… Bet they won’t let them, or listen to them.
Don’t build just a flashy body, with the same old Quality Control, cost cutting measures. Build it Right EveryTime. Do it Right From Start to Finish. Make Chrysler owners never consider owning anything else. Only time will tell if they have learned this.
I really don’t care what any other vehicle company is doing so long as chrysler does right by me.
What about finding some of the Statistical Quality Control people, and have them talk about how Chrysler made a great product in their day? We already know the Stamping plant people do an awesome job that is why they are getting rid of them. It works, we can’t fix it. Get rid of it.
Well, I will say that the continual cheapening of the vehicles as they age gets old. I would think that to compensate for not being the ‘hot new thing’ they would improve the vehicle, not cheapen it. The improvement of the interiors the last couple years is good, but in the future it would be nice to see such changes for reasons other than the sheer inferiority of what was originally there.
Chrysler’s current crisis stems from a “launch and forget it mentality”…their best designs did not see subsequent investment to keep them fresh in the market, and the lack of powertrain, interior, and styling upgrades to give owners a reason to purchase again. Let’s look at some key lines…
Pacifica – “the segment buster” ahead of its time, with ridiculously thick door panels and a weight issue, but still a handsome vehicle inside and out today…think Toyota Venza…why couldn’t Pacifica have stayed a competitive CUV with both FWD and AWD
PT prior to 2006 model year – great character, utility, smallest vehicle we built had great appeal, and line depth with Touring and GT models. Car ruined by poor interior/exterior refresh and horrible interior colors. How does a company take a hero to ZERO?
300 prior to 2005 – great styling and right sized, could have gone far with upgraded interior and powertrain…or the styling evolved into the now infamous SEBRING.
Daytona – the lack of a viable coupe has killed our ability to appeal to the empty nester who does not need a four door…think Nissan G35, Hyundai Genisis Coupe they sell LOTS. We had 4 cyl TURBO, a powertrain being reintroduced today.
Dakota/Durango 1997 2004…great styling, SIZING again…absolutely killed by poor styling in and out…no HOT gotta have it looks or features…
AVENGER – how does anyone approve a design that BAD? IN a markeyt full of flowing organic shapes the best they could do is this? A failure from the word go…
Journey – too big, too heavy, real world fuel economy with the 3.5 is dismal, interior a mash up ” lets make the HVAC controls difficult to use e.g rocker switch for fan speed and air flow! Could have been cutting edge, now mostly fogettable
WRangler – the ONE shining light – perfect, now offer the diesel!
Short Minivan – parred done to a base model, still huge demand from empty nesters for the untility and YES sliding doors, and a LUXURY package in great colors instead of the HORRIBLE medium slate grey used for the past few years.
Caliber- should offer a POWER SEAT like Kia’s RHONDO and the factory took away the popular leather and R/T option…
Our innovation and leadership was lost to Nissan and the Koreans…but Toyota and Honda still sell based on perceived quality and resale. Ford does the best job of product qualilty and line up domestically…Chrysler feels like a bunch a parts that sort of fit together…kind of…not a whole crafted vehicle…although Ram is a step in the right direction.
Has anyone seen the terrible door fits on the new Challenger? The complete misalignment on the rear taillights from quarter to deck lid? Minivan hood, door and fender alignments?
Like the comments today from manufacturing, chrysler needs to radically improve its ability to consistently launch great products and keep them fresh i.e BMW with upgrades…because far too many Chrysler owners have no reason to stay with the stale offerings when there are so many compelling designs in the market today.
Sounds typical of management. All the effort goes into the launch. After that its the Engineering and technical people who have to fix problems, which are a cost. Low priority. Again its not a cost to retain a customer. Its another easy sale if the customer is satisfied with the product and service. I’m not advocating free. Toyota’s are not cheap, yet they continue to gain market share. Honda’s are cheaper, but they have very good reliability. They are an engineering company, look how they use their expertise to build engines of all types, motorcycles, jets, power equipment, generators. They reuse the lessons they have learned. Chrysler has thrown those opportunities to get it right away.
DaveAdmin, I liked the response from the quality control gentlemen, and he is dead on with an attitude change. I really hope that they get this right, they can’t afford to screw it up.
The Pacifica, I believe, was sacrificed for the VW Routan. The replacement for the Pacifica (code named CS) was damn near finished, the vendors that were slated to supply racks for the new CT Platform were just getting ready to kick off their new build when the plug was pulled. Yeah, we came early to the crossover segement and left just as fast….the 4.0 liter Pacifica with a 6 spd auto was one quick grocery getter….Maybe Fiat will tell VW that we’ll eat all those Routan Vehicles and move the CT Foward?
I still wonder the the “new” Chrysler is going to do before the Fiat technology gets here. They say 2 years before models will come out desinged by Chry/Fiat that share platforms- that is a long time. Will the upgrade the Sebring, Caliber etc? How are they going to make it if they still don’t have cars people want over the next 24 months.
I don’t appreciate your parroting the Autoblog line about “they don’t make cars people want.”
The Sebring was doing pretty well before the Top Gear guy slammed it, causing a massive chain reaction among media lemmings.
The Challenger was HOT before all this talk about “not making cars people want.”
The Charger is still desirable – if not as unique; as is the 300C.
The Patriot is still a good buy.
The Ram is still the top rated pickup, period, including Toyota and the redesigned (sorta) F-150.
The minivans are competitive, if nothing else, and Jeep remains king of the hill with the Wrangler.
I have driven Chrysler’s my whole life- 2/3rds of my family work for them or are retired (I’m from Toledo). I own a 2006 PT (which I really like BTW- actually better then the 2001 I traded in) and an 2006 Town and Country. I am actually toying with the idea of buying a Sebring right now because of all the discounts I can get. I have no problems at all with the style of the cars. My concern is the powertrains- that is why I brought up the Sebring and Caliber. Both Ford and GM now offer a good midsize sedan with a 6 Speed auto and 4cyl engine that gets good gas mileage and has good low end tourque. Chrysler is not going to compete well with a 4 speed and the 2.4 world engine with no low end power at all. I am not critisizing Chrysler- I am concerned. I am hoping they at least upgrade the transmissions to 5 speeds for the 4 cyl. The Caliber does not offer good enough gas mileage (on paper) to get people in the showrooms either. I know there was talk that direct injection is going to be added to the engines to help- I just hope Chrysler makes some improvements in the next few model years until the new Fiat technology arrives. I don’t want my family in the unemployment lines
You can’t possibly think the Sebring is comparable to the 09 Mailibu or the 10 Fusion right now- Chrysler needs to do something.
For the price, it’s pretty good, because the price includes a lot of discounts. The 2.7 liter isn’t a bad deal. You’re right regarding the four cylinder – though I don’t think the gas mileage is far from the competitors – at least not as I recall. Sebring sedan scored above Ford Fusion in the JD Power.
The line up goung forward….
Both Ram 1500 and HD are competitive.
Minivan is competitive, build on Anniversary Edition and offer low cost leather option possibly reintoduce ‘SPORT” model with aggressive five spoke chrome wheels.
Wrangler is competitive, a diesel would be HUGE
Dakota – return of the fender flares/big tire group, simplify options, put the best wheels and appearance group on it possible, value price it – it should not cost more than a RAM!
Nitro – ditto, plus standard power seat, improve fuel economy
Caliber, Compass, Patriot – need power seats now
while we are on the subjuct, all lines should offer 6 way power pass. seats WHY? Aging population, comfort is key, easy sell on this feature.
Liberty – more aggressive Sport or North’ styling cues in front and rear fascias and grille, get rid of light colored seats use richer darker int. colors punched up with alum. accents. Original Liberty int. was much better! redesign the awful cheap center console/armrest and elctronic range select standard equipment.
With the new Grand Cherokee and 300, possibly Charger if they can launch them prior to 2010 Calendar year we still have something to talk about.
There has been of course virtually no decided course of action and models/timelines for future models…and to read the column in “autoextremist’ the new Chrysler Group LLC has its work cut out for it. There is simply no room for a botched launch or gamble on a new platform – they have to be home runs as the product cadence at Chrysler once was…”myGIG, chill-zone, swivel ‘n go, music gate, uconnect, load n go, are ALL poor replacements for a simple, quality vehicle, and wasted valuable engineering and marketing resources. I think Ford has done a better job in communicating SYNC and would appreciate your feedback on these forays down roads better not travelled. The customers did not see nor understand nor pay for the “added value” of these features.
There is no doubt that having good product helps sales. Mediocre stuff just doesn’t hack it when there seems to be more and more competitors every day. Seems that Chrysler lost its way a bit after the LH’s, ‘94 Rams, ‘99 Grand Cherokee and ‘96/’01 minivans. They were pretty hot then.
I have to say I’m a fan of the LH cars. In fact, the 2005 300C’s were already on the lot when we purchased our 2004 300M. As much as owning a Hemi-powered car was appealing, the interior of the 300M sold me. The fact that it was FWD sold my wife. If Chrysler had continued to build on the interior quality of my 300M, they’d have something worthy of Audis, BMWs, or Mercedes by now. The leather has held up extremely well as have all the soft-touch panels and dash. No sign of wear anywhere except the carpeting….which should’ve been a few grades better in a 300.
While I have some quibbles with the 300M, overall it’s been a great car. We still get compliments on it, even from the Caddy dealer where I was looking at a CTS4. The styling is uniquely Chrysler. Can’t be mistaken for anything else. I’ve even been looking around for a low mileage Intrepid or Concorde LXi with the 3.5L as a possible alternative to buying a new car to replace my Grand Caravan. The LH’s have style that the LX’s (and most new Chryslers) seem to lack. I’d still rather look at an Intrepid than a Charger. I do see signs of hope, especially with interiors. The new Ram interior looks exceptional. Although some of the fabric choices aren’t appealing to me, the quality looks great. I also like the perforated leather seats in the 25 anniversary edition of the mininvans. They appear to be better quality than in the Town & Country Ltd. The upgrades in the Patriot’s interior are subtle but noticeable. Let’s hope the goodness gets spread around a bit more.
Hey, Scott, did you write that, or did I?
We just had the brakes redone on the 300M… think when the time comes, we’ll sell the PT and keep the 300M.
Yes, that 300M was quite striking. What’s the chances of resurrecting that platform for a new mid size car to replace the awful Sebring/Avenger Cars? Also, why isn’t anyone questioning why St. Louis Truck is being “idled” but we’re keep Mexicans working to build HD Rams? It’s our tax dollars at work…
I would have to agree with most people here.
I really like the Ram Pickup want a diesel, the MiniVan’s, and the 300M. The wife wants a Challenger, but not now. The charger would be great, family is 5 going to 6 in a few years. Hard to fit, in most cars, and with friends, hard to fit everyone in a minivan. That said, we will probably opt for an older minivan in a few years, unless I bring back the 91 with 475,000 miles on it. 3 speed rebuild. Chrysler has some things to build on, they just need tweaked and improved. 6 speeds, 4 cylinders, or the new phoenix engines sound very promising. Decent mileage, capacity for 7 or 8 possibly would be nice. I know they have a sprinter, can’t afford that either right now.
DaveAdmin,
The caliber was 30 mpg…. so so looks nice, haven’t test drove one, mileage wasn’t really there for us. I just got 41 this weekend with the Neon, and going way to fast. I would like to see the Hybrid technology get implemented, as we put tons of miles on, and a hybrid minivan would really help out. If the family stays at 5 another neon a little bigger, like a stratus, that gets 38 mpg would work out great, with hybrid tech I would like 45-50 to pay for the difference in fuel cost.
The Neon’s a great car. But it was never rated at more than 38 mpg AFAIK, so if you’re getting 31… and with the Caliber, are you looking at the manual or automatic? But I’d keep the Neon until you can’t push it any more, sooner than replace it with ANYTHING out there now.
The shortfall in the interiors really set them back. My mom has a 99 LHS, and other than the ‘feels too close’ A pillar there’s not much to dislike about the interior. Bestr way to describe it is ‘warm and inviting’. It’s hard to say that about the current interiors (especially prior to the recent patches). It’s a shame as perception was starting to shift when Daimler came in. It takes a long time to turn public opinion upward and they were doing it; now they have to start over in an uncertain climate with many masters to answer to.
I hope they can do it.
What’s really funny is, that it varied so much by vehicle line. The minivans were really fine until 2008. The first PT, though Daimler, really resonated with customers despite the poor gauge visibility at dusk. Yet the LX were spartan at arrival. The J-cars were fine until the most recent editions.
I have had mostly Chrysler/Dodge vehicles for the past 20 years. Some were better than others but they all gave good service. The day after Christmas last year our 2002 Sebring was totaled when somebody turned left in front of me at 65 mph. We were all banged up but nobody died. The car did its job and sacrificed itself to save us.
We now have a new Dodge Journey and are very pleased with it. It rides well, is quiet, and handles reasonably well for an SUV. We would have gotten another Sebring but the new one is butt ugly compared to the old one. My only complaint is the hard seats, but after taking several day trips of up to 9 hours behind the wheel I’ve found the seats to be comfortable.
I’m not thrilled with the styling as prefer cars to SUV’s, but after the accident my wife wanted something larger (understandable). I hope Chrysler can regain it’s former glory, but for the moment am satisfied with what I have. As usual, your mileage may vary.
Dave, I can fully understand why you’d choose to hang onto the 300M. As I said, we get so many compliments about ours that my wife thinks it is destined to be a classic and we should keep it forever. When you have a 5 year old car and people keep asking you: Is that a new car?, it has me thinking the wife is right (and she reminds me all the time that she is). Apparently the styling doesn’t look too dated….at least not yet.
You know what else? The 2006 minivan looks newer and fresher than the 2009. The “SUV styling” (applied to both to save money, presumably) didn’t work too well.
Dave, we can see how well applying the “SUV styling” worked out for the GM minivans. They’re all gone now!
I know some people were tiring of the jellybean look of Chrysler’s vans, but I still like mine better than the new ones. I find the Routan version has the most appealing exterior. I do like the fact the new ones having roll-down windows in the sliders with sun shades to boot. I wish I had those when my kids were infants stuck in a car seat with the sun in their eyes. I wouldn’t mind the 4.0L and 6-speed auto either. My 3.8L 4-speed seems like it could use additional gear choices under some conditions.
I also love the Stow’n'Go feature my early 2005 has. To be able to transform your van from people hauler to cargo hauler in minutes without any heavy lifting is a huge plus. Use them all the time. I thought power sliders and liftgates were the ultimate in laziness until I found my hands full of grocery bags in a rain storm.
The neon will not go away anytime soon unless we get into an accident. It’s a five speed manual, and I’ve always gotten 10-20% better then the stated mileage, by changing oil, checking tire pressure, plug wires, plugs, air filter, battery cables. I make sure as best I can that my vehicle is performing in as good a condition as it can. Steady speed when traveling long distances. I run 30% ethanol to keep the fuel system clean, put in fuel injector cleaner. While she’s not the best looking car, due to a deer hit, she’s a good running which is all I care about.
When the neon finally dies, we will resurrect her, for the kids, or a SCCA car possibly for the wife. Its just a great car. Any of the kids want the car, the nieces and nephews all get in and want to go Brooom, Brooom :)
My wife wants to give it to her sister for a while as she has 5 speed itch :)
The Stow n Go would be great. I have put heavy duty shocks in the minivans and used them for hauling . The minivans have been the best all around vehicles for people transport, covered transport, and combination in between. I’ve had 6 minivans, and 8 all together in our family. They are awesome. We have hauled lumber, farm seed, tires, engines, everything in these vehicles. Their universal use is just unbeatable. They ride comfortably, haul 7 people consistently, and do everything in between. Chrysler needs to just continue to improve on these.
68PlymouthGTX, I certainly hope Chrysler can maintain its minivan dominance. You can’t beat the versatility of a minivan, IMO. Chrysler has been very innovative in the past to stay ahead of the competition. I’m thinking a Chrysler/Dodge hybrid or a turbo diesel (or both) would be a good thing to get the fuel mileage out of the teens and 20’s and into the 30’s. Being able to haul 7 people and their stuff comfortably and getting over 30 MPG while doing it would be a wonderful thing. Especially as we watch gas prices inch up again.
I’m kinda surprised Toyota hasn’t offered a Sienna hybrid yet since it would basically be a transplant out of the Camry or Highlander. I’m sure it wouldn’t be nuch of a leap for Honda either.
There are a lot of comments made that I agree with. I don’t agree with the disparaging remarks about the Avenger, however. I’ve driven this car and I found it to be exceptionally solid with a good ride and very good handling. I was turned off by just two areas: excessive engine noise and a bland interior. I’ve talked to five current owners and not one has found it necessary to return it for dealer warranty repairs. They report respectable fuel mileage and three said they “loved” the car.
I see two product areas that have hurt Chrysler the most. A lack of a sub-compact and credible mid-size FWD entry. Replacing the Neon with the Caliber was a big mistake in my opinion. GM has produced the Cobalt which looks so much like a Neon and has has fairly good sales success. The last generation Neons had much improved reliability. Chrysler should’ve extended this small car platform.
The Sebring sedan doesn’t seem to cut it. They are perceived to be highly unreliable and are considered ugly by many. Again, the Cloud cars made sense, and should have been updated with improved drive trains and increased reliability.
Chrysler’s done much better in trucks and mini-vans. The new RAM is a quality vehicle and well executed. My dealer has sold nine so far and they said not one has come back for a warranty claim of any type. I hope that long term reliability matches the rest of the vehicle. The new mini-vans appear to be better in almost all respects. I’m being told by Chrysler techs that they are not seeing a lot of problems with them. I hope this continues to hold.
They need to get the word out about Sebring Sedan doing so well in quality tests – and move convertible tops back to ASC.
Minivans… they need to revise the sheet metal on one or the other, and tune the suspensions so the Dodge is sportier and the Chrysler is more complaint. Really, really, really. As it is, they’re in an in-between land which is unsatisfactory from either perspective.
The reason for the Neon being cut was at least partly an engineering issue. While the Neon could have continued being made in Toluca along with the PT Cruiser it did not fit in with production equipment and processes used on newer cars in other facilities. The Caliber is built in a modern plant on a new platform. Had they updated the design to allow updated manufacturing techniques it might have worked out but the Germans were calling the shots and the only new development seemingly allowed then was for big cars.
The timing probably seemed, at the time, about right for a small SUV look-alike with decent mileage. I’m not real fond of the Caliber but it does have it’s place and it gets better mileage than anything else the company makes right now. If they had sold a 2.0L 5-speed in the first place I might have considered one then. Too late now…
Personally, I think there is plenty of room for the Caliber in the line-up along with a more sedan-like variation to replace the Neon. I don’t see it as an either/or proposition. Can Chrysler have TOO many fuel efficient vehicles right now? I don’t think so. If they can produce the Caliber, the Compass and the Patriot off the same line, why not a fourth? If Jeep can market two derivatives, Dodge certainly should be able to. The more the merrier in the compact vehicle space.
A Turbo Diesel Mini-van would be acceptable. I wouldn’t mind having one of those. 30 mpg, I would then probably replace my other vehicles and just have mini-vans, and a truck for heavy hauling. Then everything else would be just for fun or a backup vehicle :)
I haven’t looked at the Caliber personally. I would be interested in the room inside, comfort, for the kids in back, type thing. Nope I’m stuck with mini-vans for family outings down the road, small cars for commutes, and the truck for everything else :)
Did I read something about a small Cummins Diesel 3.0? in the works? Put a 3.0 in the mini-vans, coupled to a hybrid electric drive and that would work in the mini-vans, Durango, Jeep Cherokee, Dakota pickup? If they build a 2.0 Turbo Diesel, that would work in the Caliber, Avenger, small, mid-size car segment. Cummins does a great with diesels let them continue to work with dodge.
Here is a link for small diesel’s they are building in China. We could use a plant like this in the US.
http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=1033&dataId=2957&newsInfo=true&menuId=4