Is something good on its way?
While Chrysler has now been out of bankruptcy for a while, it is not giving any real public indication of being alive again. The pundits, when they do mention Chrysler, normally do so in disparaging terms, usually something along the lines of “Chrysler has no product any sane person would buy, and won’t have any until 2011.”
I could point out that the 2009 Ram is still the best pickup out there, despite Ford’s superior marketing and propaganda, or that the minivans are still very competitive, or that many critics have reversed themselves on the Caliber and Patriot, and that some have even had the courage to praise the Sebring for its strengths even though Top Gear apparently thinks it’s worse than the Chevette, Pinto, Yugo, and Tempo all rolled into one. The Challenger remains a family-sized alternative to the Camaro and Mustang, and is better-looking than either one by a huge margin. And, of course, the Charger has been rapidly replacing the Ford squads, to the point where the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor is being discontinued entirely.
I could also wonder why Chrysler did the absolute minimum it could do this year in terms of press materials. The new model press book was issued online, it had every indication of being a rush job, carelessly tossed out, with numerous missing pieces and, Heaven help us, dead links. Oh, and no way to view the whole thing at once. It was ghastly and did nothing to help those who wanted to get at the major improvements made to some models.
But I’m guessing now that the company is working on saving its energy for a major publicity blast. At least, that’s what I’m hoping, and not just because I miss their ad revenue. (I really do. I mean, Allpar is running ads for Toyota, General Motors, and Ford, but not for Chrysler, and it’s not by choice.)
I recently got an email suggesting that the first batch of 200Cs has just rolled off the assembly line. The 200C is a car so good-looking that when it was revealed at the auto show last January, the press issued a collective “wow.” It’s hard to make the press stand up (literally) and take notice. Sure, the 200C didn’t make the editors’ cut for most publications, but it made the kind of impression nobody can forget.
Maybe, just maybe, Chrysler is holding back until it has something to sell. The dealers are out of stock on many vehicles; the assembly lines are unable to make everything they need to, because suppliers aren’t providing key parts. Even Mercedes, presumably out of spite, is reportedly withholding parts.
Maybe the guys in the executive rooms are figuring that they will come out big-time with a splash, but that they’ll do it when they actually have something to sell at the dealerships.
Maybe they’re smarter than we thought, and smarter than they could be under Daimler’s Chrysler-loathing iron fist, or Cerberus’ cost-slashing (which had to both address longstanding product problems caused by Daimler, and cultural issues also caused by Daimler, while trying to figure out which executives were incompetent bootlickers and which had just not been able to work effectively given their constraints.)
Maybe, too, the new organization needs some time to regroup, as people get used to their new jobs, reorganize, move people around, start the paper trails necessary to fire people in today’s world, and implement the changes needed for higher quality and more customer-friendly cars and trucks.
Let’s hope so. Otherwise, we at Allpar will be very sad as the tailspin continues.
Is it possible that they’ll have some info as to how the electric mini-vans are performing in the fleet tests? You know, the 100 or so they leased to the USPS?
I’ve got a 2005 T&C, and would LOVE to replace it with an electric. But have to know how well the tests are going.
Maybe their big announcement will involve gearing up the assembly lines for the electric vans – it would be something no other company has.
To be honest, I think Fiat is in shock. At the Frankfurt autoshow, Mr. Marchionne said in an interview that, to his surprise, Cerebus invested nothing into Chrysler. He was also supposed to announce what models would be further cut from the Chrysler brands’ lineups. Instead that will be delayed until November, which coincidentally is when Jim Press leaves the building.
Mercedes dropped a bomb when it cut off the Sprinter vans from Dodge. No more of those at the end of 2009. How quickly can the Iveco and Fiat vans be federalized? The Ducato doesn’t have any self shifting transmission options, which further doesn’t make that ready for prime time. Suppliers have to be found for all the missing Daimler parts. The production of Charger, Challenger and 300 are in the most danger from that move by Mercedes.
The stay of execution for the PT Cruiser and Viper shows the new owners want to keep the lines running. Lets hope we can see some decent advertising to move the vehicles and some vendors suppling parts to build them.
I’d put my money on an announcement that’s more good than bad. There’s no point in delaying bad news as speculation will just drive your stock lower and customers away. And by announcing bad news quickly it shows that you are in charge of events and not the other way around. Good news, on the otherhand, is something that you want to keep so you can make the most of it.
I’m hoping that there’s some sort of announcement concerning the 300 or the Charger, such as unveiling what the replacements will look like and an accelerated timeline for their introduction, say early 2010 not late in the year.
As for cuts, well what’s left to cut? They could kill the Sebring, but they don’t sell enough Avengers alone to justify keeping the assembly line going. They could cut the Challenger, but that’d be a real black eye for the company. I suppose they could cut either the Patriot or the Compass. I’d prefer to see the Patriot go as tries to recapture the glory of the original small Cherokee and fails miserably. The Compass doesn’t try to be a serious off-roader so I find it less galling. Do they still make the Commander?
And that is why I think it will more likely be good news than bad coming up. (Of course, it could be so bad that nobody can see it coming – like shutting the while thing down and Fiat (and Alfa Romeo) retreating back to Italy.)
FIAT was not “shocked” as they had months of diligence and saw everything in the design dome 10 times! They had the product plan and every detail. Marchionne plays games–lowers expectations, etc. with the press. He will say one thing at this show, and then talk about his new plan at the next. Don’t listen as mcuh to what he says, but watch closely what he does (goodbye Hyundai, Nissan, BMW, Daimler)
He is mostly concerned about hitting 5 to 6 million worldwide units of production—period.
Dropping the Sprinter waqs not a “bomb” as only a few thousand have even been sold in 2009. The Sprinter stopped sprinting off lots in late ‘07 and by 2008 the dealer inventory was bloated.
What would be a bomb—and in the bad way—is if Sergio gets rid of Cummins for future diesel engines and instead uses FIAT diesels.
I’d rather see a big push later with great ads, great focus, than sloppy, sporadic ads with no real products to promote. It would be great to see some killer Ram commercials, but I’d wait until next year if it means saving money for an onslaught of Ram, 200c, Cherokee, and 300 commercials that appeal to fans of the original Chrysler, and also to the under 30 crowd, which has forsaken the company (or barely knows it’s there). I’ve shown the picture of the 200c to numerous friends of mine – and all said the similar “wow” that must have been heard coming from the press. If they sell it and advertise that car right, it will sell – a lot. I have this feeling that people want to by Chryslers – they just need lots of advertising and the press to them it’s okay again, if that makes sense?
I’m still concerned though, even if it’s less than with the last two “owners”.
I agree with my fellow mopar fans. The new Chrysler needs to get off their duff’s and start to let the public know that there are new and inviting products on the way. Get the peoples juices flowing again. The public wants to give Chrysler a chance, But they need a reason to. Sergio has to remember that this is AMERICA, Not France ,We DON’T give up or give in. But we do need a reason to believe in. The new add f/GM is very effective f/my angle. Chrysler needs to re-use the phrase f/Iaccoca. If you can find a better car buy it. I just hope they don’t wait to long, or it will be to late. They do have to drop the gagging metal vehicles that look like yuck – yuck – yuck. I’m personally looking for the new elect cars, but they have to price them right. The Challenger srt is 5k to high compared to the camaro.
As many pundits lament about Chrysler not having any new product for MY2010, neither does Toyota. Are they crucifying them? In fact, with the new HD Rams arriving, you could argue that Chrysler has more new product coming than Toyota.
That said, I have to say I am more than a little disappointed in the 2010 Chrysler line-up. You can tell they’re just trying to stay afloat. Models and options being cut or condensed. Even fewer color choices on some models….and what in the world is Blackberry?? And I’m not talking about my phone…..it’s a new color for the minivans.
The only thing going for Chrysler right now is the Ram and the Wrangler. The minivans are slowly slipping in sales……thanks to the bland redesign under Daimler. The 300/Charger and Grand Cherokee looking dated. Somehow the Liberty & nitro are missing the mark. Avenger/Sebring were stillborn. And I’ve never really warmed up to the Patriot/Compass/Caliber…..except the SRT4 is intriguing. Good riddance to the Sprinter. The dealers around here are still trying to unload their inventory of 2008’s, for 2009’s. I don’t think they’re making much money for Chrysler or the dealer considering dealers are whacking $10,000 off MSRP just to get rid of them. I think they’re a nice vehicle, but like everything Mercedes, OVERPRICED. Keep in mind that you can drive a brand new E150 Econoline off the lot for about $18K, not $30K+. Sure, the Sprinter is bigger and better in many ways, but if your business just needs the basics and you could care less about a diesel, then why would you buy a Sprinter? I think Ford will find an interesting niche with the Transit Connect as well. Gee, makes me wonder if a SWB Caravan Cargo might’ve found some buyers.
The refreshed 300/Charger and new Grand Cherokee can’t get here fast enough. The 200C would be even better. Still, Chrysler needs vehicles that can compete with the Camry and Corolla at the low end. Basic transportation that looks decent, has great fuel economy, and is rock-solid reliable for years to come. It will be interesting to see what FIAT brings to the table in this regard.
Let’s keep our fingers crossed.
I am reserving judgement for now…………
Stranger/worse things have happened with Chrysler over the years and the company is still around :)
Chrysler has some very loyal customers and a web site like this here at all par ,personally my self ,if it was not for this site ,I would of ditched my chrysler a long time ago.I think customer service at Crysler needs to contact all its customers that have been let down by their head office ,how can you justify 13,000$ in warranty work and still not get it right ,the customer always looses ,until next time we have t opurchace another vehicle.
From everything that I’ve heard about Sergio from Chrysler personnel – he’s meticulous and aggressive. In other words, he is going to wait until everything is in place and then come out with a “WOW”. He knows that they must get this right and I am confident (looking at the Fiat turn around in Europe) that he will do it right.
Quietly some good things have happened at Chrysler. They found the coin to buy the Dundee GEMA factory and are adding Multi-air variable valve lift heads and throttle-less engines technology to the Chrysler world engines. DI is also rumored to be ready.
Together or singly, these technologies would solve the problem that has bedeviled Chrysler products and the World engine powered cars for a while. I speak of the lack of suitable transmissions. Frank Klegon was on the way to solving it with the 6-speed and 7-speed dual clutch automatics, until the Great Recession drove Chrysler into receivership, and an empty brand new, tool-less, transmissions factory.
Chrysler has had to over-cam the World engines to overcome the transmission problem. It has lead to peaky, engines without mid-range power, and universal opprobrium, yet Hyundai’s version with relaxed camming is greeted with applause. Simply relaxing the camming to produce “flat torque” engines would help, given the extra power and fuel economy of these two changes to the engines. Thsi woud go a long way to making the Avenger and Sebring acceptable, as well as the Caliber clones.
But the problem is solving the transmission issue, or more precisely, finding a source of funds to finish and tool the brand new, vacant, transmissions factory that was prepared to build the already designed and tested, 6 & 7 speed Dual clutch automatics. They need a JV who can use the excess transmissions such as GM, or the rest of Fiat, for example.
The Phoenix v6 has been introduced and the World I4 is being reworked, Both are produced in the most modern, low cost facilities, and both were designed from the outset for what Ford terms “Ecoboost technology”. They both were designed with added cooling, beefier bottom ends, and non-siamesed cylinders so as to be able to handle boost without head gasket problems. Or problems from added HCCI, combustion pressures either. Ford has spent mega-millions reworking its engines to do the same, while Chrysler has it already.
HCCI is coming fast and it will add the fuel economy of a diesel to the clean emissions of a gas ICE. With the addition of ‘Multi-air’ variable valve lift and DI, the entire Chrysler engine line is ready for HCCI without much change. CARB certifies already that Chrysler’s World engines are rated at PZEV emissions levels. Imagine a real world mid-size sedan that achieves mid thirty mpg and is rated ZERO POLLUTION at the same time,without any hybridization.
Meanwhile the ENVI series EREV drive development is proceeding. The selection of a big enough electric drive from thevery start, and suitable for an entire range of sedans and minivans, should save them money when it appears. It appears to be a sound engineering approach too, when EREVS can achieve triple digit fuel economy, suitable performance is a easy trade off that Chrysler’s ENVI has already made.
It galls me that a boodle of kit car companies founders are walking away with 3/4 of billion taxpayer dollars, for the few hundred kit cars that Lotus builds for them. Or that other non vehicle-producing firms, can score millions. Meanwhile, tooling that transmission factory would save more gasoline in the real world, than a hundred of these phony kit car emporiums.
There is still some overlap in the Chrysler lineup. The Commander is still with us for 2010, but that’s its final year. The current Grand Cherokee, Liberty and Nitro are close in size and weight. yes the GC has the Hemi option, but it is a far cry from where it started. It is not too late to kick the plug on the 2011 Grand Cherokee’s incubator. Its not a real Jeep. It uses too much Mercedes design and parts. The Germans no longer want to share toys or play nice. Put the new Pentastar V6 in the Liberty and redo it into a new Cherokee without the “Grand” prefix. Kill the Nitro. There, I’ve eliminated two SUVs. They could take the opportunity while the market is slow and bring the next Dodge Durango more into the family. Use more Chrysler/ Fiat designed parts. Call Ghost Busters and finally get the Daimler haunt out of Chrysler once for all.
A week or two ago, I saw a commerical on TV for the Charger. It highlighted the cars performance and economy aspects and overall was very well made. A shocker because I haven’t 1. witnessed a commercial for Dodge in a long time, and 2. wasn’t one of those wacky ones where some guys scream about it having a HEMI.
Product advertisement has been my pet-peeve with the company for the past few years or so and the details that are carelessly tossed away in favor of cost savings. Remember truck lid liners, underhood lights, puddle lamps..ect ect? Thank goodness they didn’t cheapen the Chrysler winged badge, true it’s no longer a colored emblem on the wheels, but the badge still has those small details in it. (Unlike Buick who deleted the red, white and blue for the US but left it for China….)
Quality, Innovation, Style, and Economy I hope would be on Sergios screen. And by innovation, I don’t mean gimmicks that get tossed into the car ie: chill zone, heated cupholders, halo lighting. And quality I don’t mean thin cheesy looking plastic bits either. The Ram is a start, I hope that the 200C becomes reality, it’s elegant and what the Sebring should have been all along.
Hopefully these guys are actually serious, unlike Cerebus, Daimler, and sadly the team that sold Chrysler out to Daimler.
Just make them promise they won’t split off the truck division and call it “Ram.” Dodge has ALWAYS been a truck company, since General Pershing’s Punitive Expedition into Mexico to chase Pancho Villa. If they want a brand for economy Fiat cars, it’s spelled P-L-Y-M-O-U-T-H. That also allows them to bring back the Cuda in limited numbers. Just no 90s stylized sailing ship for that car. It needs the 60/70s style ship that looks kinda like a rocket. And a FRATZOG for the Dodge Charger and Challenger. Ram Heads for Trucks, PERIOD! IMHO.
I am not sure but the announcement seems to have something to do with the bizarre plan to rename Dodge Trucks as “Rams” while keeping the cars as Dodges. Plus, there is the recent disappointing decision by Petty Motorsports to leave Dodge for next season’s Nascar. I hope the new company is not making the unthinkable decision to cancel Dodge, Chrysler, or both? car divisions. That would be ludicris after all the effort made to revitalize the company and Dodge Division, in particular.
People would really feel let down and it would send the wrong message to consumers.
Dodge has built some great cars in recent years but also foundered until the non-leadership of the holding company Cerebrus. The Charger, Challenger, Viper and Caliber are all excellent cars. The Caliber’s interior is greatly improved. I was disappointed to see the Magnum go but it departed thanks to spiking gasoline prices. The Stratus was a mediocre but solid car which was replaced under Daimler/Cerebrus with the Avenger, a mishandled redesign that missed the important midsize market. They would have been better off marketing a Dodge designed version of the Mitsu Galant or Lancer as was originally planned. A Dodge version of the 200C or a shortened RWD Challenger-based replacement would certainly ignite their midsize sales. Consumers crave a RWD midsize car just like they have taken to the 300C/Charger but nothing is currently offered for under 35K.
The Dodge Grand Caravan is a problem because the roofline is too short and the van appears too boxy. Plus, where is the smaller wheelbase Caravan? This would be a hot seller right now. This van needs a redesign under Fiat/Bertone to fix these problems. The company also needs a microvan like the Toyota Scion box van which has been on the market for several years now. A Dodge version of the small Fiorino van might help fill this gap and the large Fiat Scudo Van could easily replace the outgoing Sprinter and it even closely resembles one.
Dodge Trucks are on top despite Daimler/Cerebrus mismanagement and lack of capital investment. The Ram 1500 on up to the “Heavy Duties” are excellent. But the Dakota was another misstep under Daimler/Cerebrus which can easily be replaced by a minvan-based lifestyle vehicle (as Honda did with the unusual Odyssey-based Ridgeline).
Ram has been associated with Dodge for over 60 years and I don’t see the logic of separating the two brands. Consumers will always associate them. I find this rumor disturbing. If Fiat wants to market some big rigs, it should use the Iveco brand which has already been around here for years.
Jeep trucks are doing great despite the company’s problems. They could use a smaller entry level four wheel drive in the lineup. Whatever they make seems to sell well despite the economy.
Chrysler cars are also needed to fill a gap in the near luxury segment that Dodge cannot occupy. Alfa Romeo is a niche car at best and will never sell in the potential voumes that Chrysler can generate with the new 200C, the restyled and redesigned 300C, and an improved Town & Country. Fiat may be able to successfully market a rebadged Alfa under the Chrysler brand but I can’t see Alfa Romeo ever being popular here in America.
These problems are not insurmountable under the new managers. Yet whatever the “Big Announcement” is- I want to remain optimistic. Chrysler could use some Good News to gloat about just now.
More thouhgts.
Marchione has suggested that he sees Chrysler as a Ultra-Lux brand. Perhaps above the Cadillac and Lincoln. After the laughter stopped, I did some thinking and I perhaps perceive what he is saying.
The upscale Chrysler brand is going to be small. Not more than a model or two, as Dodge/Chrysler twinning ends.
Why? Because domestic Chrysler have combined dealerships now; except for pure FIAT branded foreign dealers. So they don’t need an extensive set of chassis platforms to draw upon, or to flesh out as a full brand. In lots of ways, they are much like the single platform Lexus LS400 or Hyundai Genesis starts.
I could foresee the “big Chrysler Sedan” showing up in many Fiat upscale foreign dealerships to serve as the missing “big Ultra-Luxury Sedan”, to fill out their offerings.
They have existing “halo” cars to fill out the luxury themes, right now, for the the most part. Two pieces are/were missing. For sports car PI image, the Ferrari does just fine. For 2+2 sporty Luxury coupes there is Maserati, and slightly down market the Alfa Romeo sporty coupes. For country club set off- roaders, for the horsey Polo-pony set, to compete with the Range Rover, they now have the new Grand Cherokee, with its new Mercedes chassis, and definitely upscale interiors and price tag. It looks to be a valid place card holder with its hallowed Jeep name, against Range Rover too.
Cadillac tried with the Allante and XLR for a ‘halo’ sports car, and hasn’t succeeded there yet. By comparison, Ferrari just oozes performance image and luxury, right now. Ditto for each member of this “phantom [composite, ultra-luxury] brand”.
GM aficionados were talking about “proper RWD platforms” and simultaneously advocating the cheapest Zeta platform for everything from a mundane Chevy sedan, and/or El Camino trucklet, to an ultra top of the line Cadillac. Yet Zeta was developed for a mass market Chevy-Holden level car; not a Mercedes Benz. Lincoln sold its aspiration attempt, in Jaguar, to keep the bill collectors at bay. Now Lincolns are dressy Fords, as they have always been.
For myself, I would rather start with a proven and now updated Ultra-luxury level, Mercedes platform. That is much better chassis DNA company, than Rolls Royce or Bentley uses, and a fine launching point to start to build an ultra-lux sedan.
The last thing that MB did with Chrysler was to update that platform for the Challenger and the Mercedes SUVS, the so-called LHX platform. So it isn’t even old anymore, nor the older, mere, E-Class chassis; which by the way, is far from being matched even yet, by Lexus, or Infiniti, or Hyundai, or a host of aspiring others.
The last thing that MB did with Chrysler was to was to update that platform for the Grand Cherokee too; and the newly introduced Mercedes SUVs. So it isn’t even old anymore, nor only the well-sorted out, older E Class platform, either. It is much more than that. It is a modern, current generation Mercedes platform.
Apply the new ultra modern Phoenix V6 in “Eco-Boost” like form; with ‘Multi-air’ variable valve lift, throttle-less drive by wire, DI, multi-valve, continuously variable independent valve timing, in an OHC, all-alloy V6 power plant designed from the start with added cooling and beefy bottom end and large cylinder spacing for turbo-charging, plus the added combustion pressures of HCCI, to the new LHX Chrysler 300. Or successor/offshoot. Then, add an ultra-lux upscale power plant developed, by Mercedes, for Mercedes, and you have something to crow about.
Ford is spending mega-millions to re-engineer its I4s and V6s for the abuse of “Eco-boost”; and the Phoenix V6 and incidentally, the World engine also, have it engineered in, from the start.
There was no chintzing with the Phoenix engine, as Daimler planned to retire all the Mercedes v6s and replace them with premium Phoenix V6, versions. Mercedes planned on adding the equivalent of Fiat’s ‘Multi-air’ electro hydraulic mechanical variable valve lift, to distinguish Mercedes from more plebeian Chrysler Phoenix v6s. Now Chrysler is explicitly getting the Fiat ‘Multi-air’ equivalent variable valve-lift technology, too.
It doesn’t require much to specify Brembo brakes; and other supplier goodies, like fancy lights, radar cruise control, stability control, etc, and you have a thoroughly modern competitor in the Luxury playroom. Match it with a truly premium transmission in the Fiat parts-bin, in the small quantities needed, and suddenly the smirking stops.
To transform the big Chrysler into a world leading big sedan, all you need add is modern lightweight adaptive magneto-rheological “Active Suspension”, pioneered in Detroit. Then dress it up; add lots and lots of Luxury interior bits, and lots of TLC.
Open your eyes. The truly hard and expensive bits are there already.
Luxury interiors are but gilding the equestrian Statue. This would-be equestrian has a thoroughbred’s breeding to start with, in its quality, Mercedes-level, Chassis and Engine. It would not look out of place on a Ultra-Lux showroom floor accompanied by its Fiat corporate brethren, Ferrari, Maserati, Grand Cherokee, and Alfa Romeo. Taken together, these vehicles constitute the Fiat Group [phantom and composite] Ultra-Luxury brand.
To add a “M series” or “V-series” performance image, to the big Chrysler Sedan, you can always trot out a ultra-big, Hemi-V8 in the Chrysler for its hallowed, historic, Yank-Tank, “Performance Image” too. Race it around Nurburgring. Just like the CTS-V.
I’m cautiously optomistic regarding the future. There are some great ideas floating around from my fellow Mopar guys and gals. The company problems stemmed from the incompetance of that fool Eaton. Lee, why didn’t you annoint Lutz as your successor? It would have been best for the company. I believe Marchionne will do the right thing. If they do the 200C could be a giant hit.I too am sorry to see Petty leave, probably not as sorry as Kasey Kahne who seems very disappointed to be leaving Chrysler (Dodge). He has one more year with RPM wonder if he and personal services contract with Budwiser might go elsewhere in 2011? As for me I ready to buy a 200C when they come.
Like most of you I’m exasperated at the lack of advertising of Chrysler’s positive aspects. The RAM has attributes that literally put the F150 and Silverado in a catch-up mode. And the CAB just informed us that the 2006 Caravan received a “most reliable” award.
I also agree that renaming Dodge trucks RAMs is silly, and potentially harmful. Just when you’ve got a superior product in the RAM, you should be trying to associate your cars with the same common name – Dodge.
And I think the Imperial would be a great boost to the prestige of the company right now..
I think that Chyrsler is going to be bringing back Plymouth. If Plymouth is brought back, it would help Chyrsler by having the low entry level cars.
Let’s add more fantasy scenarios
1)Chrysler-Fiat menaged to get the rights to built next-gen 300C/Charger/Challenger on GM’s Zeta platform (GM don’t know what do to with the Zeta platform, sell the platform to someone else)
2)they cancelled the pick-up truck deal with Nissan. They returns on their decision and they agree to do the pick-up truck deal with Nissan
3)Patriot, Compass and Caliber drops the CVT transmission for a more conventionnal one
4)a reborn of the Neon (under another name perhaps: Dart? Rambler?) sedan with the muscled SRT-4
I, too, have been surprised at the lack of info from Chrysler since its bankruptcy. It’s quite understandable that Mr. Marchione would need some time to sort things out at Chrysler, especially since it’s now the third set of executives in place within three years! Chryslers lack of product announcement is truly distressing but I hope that is because they are waiting to sort out the product lines and get their business plan in place. Surely the few faithful left at Chrysler have something on the shelf, or back burner. I agree with Dave that we are probably just in a waiting mode for the present. P.S. I agree with renaming the trucks RAM, and turning Dodge into a car brand that serves entry level (Plymouth/Fiat), and mid level (Dodge) vehicles. The brand is too large as it stands. Keep Chrysler at two or three models 200C, 300C, LWB Imperial/New Yorker , and a crossover, period.
Some of you have brought up some interesting points that lead me to be more optimistic. I’d love to see the Chrysler brand truly move upscale once and for all. Making almost carbon copies of Dodges and Plymouths in the ’80s and ’90s did nothing but hurt the brand, IMO. I’m not sure whether it makes sense to bring the Plymouth brand back or use the FIAT brand which is already known around the world. If Toyota can add brands like Lexus and Scion to address certain markets, then I don’t see why Chrysler can’t do the same rather than dump brands like GM is doing.
As for the Jeep brand, as fully loaded Grand Cherokees head toward $50K, I’m thinking a BMW X5 4.8 suddenly doesn’t look all that expensive. Back in the Grand Wagoneer days, folks with money bought a lot of those fuax woodgrain-sided rigs. Perhpas the 2011 Grand Cherokee will bring those days back.
If so, then Jeep ought to call the Liberty the Cherokee here along with the rest of the world rather than offering a Laredo version of the Grand Cherokee. With the new Phoenix engines, the Cherokee (Liberty) would have almost the same power as the Laredo with the 4.7L V8. Offer more choices on that platform like a Rubicon edition and I think you’ll make the purists happier. Make sure the 6-speed manual if available across the board. And keep it affordable. Throw in a diesel option and you might end up with higway mileage over 30 MPG.
Unfortunately new products take years to develop and engines and new platforms cost billions, Chrysler needs to cut away the bad stuff and make the stuff they keep better. My opinion:
Chrysler=
200C, 300C, Minivan, Maybe a crossover that’s all
Cut Sebring sdn & convertible, Cut PTCruiser
Dodge= Ram lineup, Journey, Caliber for now is ok (fiat replacement will be welcome), Challenger and Charger, new Avenger based on 200C or Fiat chassis, keep Grand Caravan, Dakota needs to be cheaper and have more fuel efficient powertrain options to keep, only add Durango if market conditions call for it.
Cut Nitro, Sprinter is too $$$,
Jeep= Wrangler stays for sure, Re-Do Liberty, offer 6 speed transmission the 4 speeds are awful, Keep Patriot (more powertrain options), New Grand Cherokee can’t come soon enough,
Cut Commander, Cut Compass
Fiat= 500 can’t wait.
More than anything CJD needs higher mileage new powertrain vehicles. THe 2.4L 4 cylinder is too noisy, the 3.7L V6 and 4 speed trans is bad on gas and drones around 45mph, the 2.7L must go forever, the Phoenix V6 will be great addition, The 4.7L V8 looks to be cut for 2010 already!
Stepping aside from unlimited-budget-fantasy scenes, let me suggest the following:
1) Forget about splitting Ram and Dodge. The big truck associations can help Dodge if the Dodge brand stays with muscle cars – Charger, Challenger, and trucks. Oh, and Caravan, just because it needs to be there…
2) Set up Plymouth to take over the everyday cars – Plymouth’s original niche and such. That would mean the Fiats, the J-bodies if they last, the Journey (which hasn’t established much of a following yet, and can simply swap brands), Voyager, etc.
3) Chrysler… either move it up or lose it. Move it up to Cadillac and above; or phase it out and replace it with Imperial.
Using the Plymouth name would keep many prior owners in the fold… I think it would be a major symbol that would help to placate those who are upset by Fiat ownership, by Fiat leaders, and by Fiat technologies and platforms being brought it. It would show that Sergio respects the infamous Chrysler heritage.
As for Jeep — I really see one problem with Jeep, and that’s the Compass. Oh, and marketing of the Patriot.
Lets play the “If I were in charge of Chrylser Game” Hmmmmm what would I do? Chrysler, I love the current 300C, wouldn’t want to replace it maybe freshin it up, diffently take it up a notch in the luxury and refinement area. Its the Flagship of that line; Build the 200C, and get rid of the Sebering vehicle and nameplate. Build a 200C convertable. These two and or three should be marketed towards the BMW, Audio, Infiity, Lexus buyer. Sporty but reserved, in your face but able to go to the Met. in class. As far as marketing, try to find someone on par with Recardo Montalban to pitch them, loved it when he talked about the Corinthian Leather. The Dodge side, Charger and Challenger would stay maybe take the Charger and put it on the 200C Chassis with some sort of 1/4 rear door that would be trick. This would make it essentionlay a 2+2 coupe throw in more styling from 1968 too. Chrysler would have the mid size market, why try to compete with your own stable mate, so Dodge would work on the econo class. Nothing says you couldn’t rebage the Fiat 500 and just call it a Dodge 500. I would also bring the ENVI on line with both the Dodge Circuit and the Town and Country but with a Dodge Caravan nameplate and NEW Sheetmetal, current production looks more like a box then anything else. I wouldn’t change the Ram or the Dodge name too much at stake. The Dakota, which I am very fond of, would be transformed with ques from the M80, yes a niche vehicle but very cool. NO Durango unless its down sized and built on the Dakota/M80 chassis. Since Sprinter is gone, I would work hard to have the 4500 and 5500 Rams used as Motorhome chassis. The Dart nameplate keeps popping into my head so I would think something cute, fun to drive for the twenty something crowd. Think of what Toyota did with Scion, buy a vehicle and dress it the way you want it. Jeep, poor poor Jeep its Iconic name means so much around the globe. Its the vehicle that won WWII, well at least the Wrangler is some what that vehicle. I have always thought of Jeep as Chryslers SUV brand don’t understand why they made Durango and Aspen to compete with the Grand Cherokee and Cherokee/Liberty. I think a back to basics would be needed to revamp this line, Wrangler is almost bigger then Grand Cherokee, yes they both take different approches to complete the task one refine the other a buck board, If you want to compete with GM against the Tahoe and Sub u need something large but that sacrifices some off road capabilities, you ever try turning one of those things around on a trail. I don’t mind if they build a full size ute but do they have to tame it soo much for the Rodeo Drive crowd? If it were me I would bring back Wagoneer, right down to the wood trim
Liberty would be gone, Wrangler would stay and maybe I would have a small ute designed a throw back to the MB and Willys no electric windows or door locks, maybe A/C but no frills, targeted and marketed for the younger crowd or the 4×4 who doesn’t need heated seats or multi spatial surround sound system, but want something that can do Moab or the Rubicon. Once again the ENVI Wrangler and Patriot would some how round out the group. I would love to have an ENVI Wrangler, would make Elk and Deer hunting so much nicer. Last if everything went right I would bring out the Wrangler based truck that they had a few years back, the key would be to make it desirable to those who want extra cargo capacity in their Wrangler but not to take sales from Dakota, maybe limit it to a regular cab with suicide rear doors like the concept. So thats what I would do, I would love to include Plymouth but the time isn’t right the company isn’t strong enough, I had a ‘69 Barracuda and said when I test drove a 1997 Avenger, drop a 318 in it and call it Cuda. The qeastion is well Fiat keep any of Chrysler. One of the Chrylser Reps has suggested the 500 in show rooms by December, but I haven’t seen anything written in stone, and we at the dealership…at least the one I work at, generally ar the last ton know.
Oh and I forgot to mention, Diesel in everything. Something we really haven’t embraced here in the USA but I think it could work.
A RAM Truck Brand? Why? Is Chrysler trying to match the new GM? Give me a break…
The concept of a separate “Ram” Brand is just ridiculous. Chrysler has the right
brands right now and just needs to flesh out the lineup with more cars and some
updates of their existing vehicles. They don’t have the capital and don’t need to
waste time on a dead Plymouth or another brand. Dodge needs high volume cars, small
SUV’s, and minivans to sell right now. If there is any future need for another truck
outlet it already exists: IVECO.
Dodge Cars are covered with Ram logos…what are they going to do…remove all the
Ram logos? I like the Ram symbol on my Stratus and on my Ram 1500 and I want them
both to stay on future models. A Ram logo makes my car seem more tough. The Chrysler
pentastar does not. In my opinion, the Ram symbol increases the popularity and identity
of the car and the truck models. So, leave the Dodge car & truck divisons alone, Marchionne.
Chrysler would benefit by bringing back Plymouth because Plymouth could take all the cars that would be cut from Dodge, Chrysler, and Jeep. Also, there could be a few rebadged Fiat models.
Seen the new Charger commercial, seems way more agressive than in the past. Seems to be going in the right direction. Maybe we are in for something good soon. There is lots happening on the Dodge motorsports side. From the “Didn’t see that comming” Department, Kahne blows up on the next race when the engine department discovers their future fate. I gotta say I feel sorry for the guy and now for Dodge. This is the kind of stuff that happens when you announce big changes during the season, and “the play offs” at that. Poor judgement on RPM’s part,
And really unprofessional on Gilletts part.
Nascar should rule that deals are to be made in the off season like other sports. I hope Kasey finally realizes what a loser organization RPM is now and not the once admirable Evernham organization he was hired to drive for.
Read my lips, more turmoil to come for this team.
I don’t blame Dodge for this and to be honest, feel a lot better about them leaving RPM behind. I think that organization is headed nowhere.
Good Luck Kasey, maybe you can catch a ride with Penske.
To those that want to bring back Plymouth…the name does not elicite the desire to say “I drive a Plymounth”…it is a brand from another era that would take far too many ad $$$ in order to re-establish. Line up suggestions as follows
Jeep – luxury SUV Grand Cherokee
– Liberty (already established) enhance style, increase rear seat room
– Wrangler – add diesel
– Keep Compass – enhance styling and powertrain, unique 4×4 appearance option
Chrysler – 300 Luxury car / premium powertrain / head turner
– 200c same in smaller package
– 200c coupe and convertible models
– premium midsize crossover “think Pacifica 3/4 size” to compete with RX Lexus
Dodge – Journey – more agressive version of Chrysler crossover
– Minivan – more expressive style, better interior materials
– Challenger – switch from Classic body and keep the collectors happy and prices stable. new body with emphasis on all round performance think Infiniti, lighter and modern
– Caliber replacement in 2 door, 4 door and 5 door versions
– Rams fine
– 7 pass SUV with towing / passenger ability like original Durango
– Charger – Altima / malibu fighter
p.s
Fiat should remain Fiat and be sold through Dodge dealerships.
Let’s get serious out there folks…Chrysler has just returned from Bankruptcy
and doesn’t need any new or old car divisions. It would just splinter the
already sparse lineup of cars they have now. There is nothing to prune away
now that the slowest sellers are gone. I lament the loss of the hybrid Chrysler
Aspen and Dodge Durango and the Dodge Magnum but they weren’t selling.
Fiat and Chrysler need to fill in gaps in the lineup with minivans (both a
Chrysler and Fiat specialty) and fuel efficient small cars (and not just the
diminutive Fiat 500- another niche car at best). They have no Corolla-sized
offering and their mid-sizers are not selling well despite the A+ safety rating.
But what concerns me when I look at Fiat cars like the Fiat Punto is that they may not
be ready for U.S. roads (or standards?) yet. Even the Fiat Linea looks like a previous
generation Stratus. It’s likely that updated models are on the drawing board but these
cars are still 2 years away from any retooling and U.S. production.
A possible quick fix would be to negotiate with Mitsubishi to take over the Lancer/
Galant distribution in the U.S. Bertone could be called in to first do a makeover
so we can avoid another Avenger/Sebring disaster. The Mitsubishi’s may look bland
but they have the technology and could look really spiffy with the right person at the
CAD. I wouldn’t be surprised if MMC was already looking for a face-saving way to exit
the U.S. market and it would give Sergio more time to sort out the Fiat-Chrysler lineup.
Something that should be understood right now: Fiat needs to remain it’s own brand. If these are sold in Chrysler brand stores then fine, do that. It’s a bit late for Plymouth. I’d love to see the nameplate back but I’m 52 years old. My son rode Dodges and Jeeps and thinks Plymouth cars are for “old guys”. The younger generation doesn’t remember Barracudas at all. There is no reason from where I stand that the Fiat brand can’t have that category. They’ve earned it in Europe. It’s still a well known brand.
I have no idea why the company wants to create a truck brand. They already have an SUV brand. Dodge trucks have a fine reputation. Why muck up success?
The biggest problem with the Imperial brand was that the cars, as much as they cost, didn’t make as much money for Chrysler as Plymouth, Dodge and Jeep cars do. An Imperial would be expensive to create, produce and would sell in far too small numbers to make a profit. That’s why the brand died in the first place. There was not enough demand for a similar car. That segment is a bit crowded these days with Lexus, Infinity, Volvo… Which is why Saab is always in trouble financially.
We’ll all know when the time comes. It doesn’t help that Chrysler has been so quiet but I suspect the management wants to keep the good news for when it will have the best effect on the market and the competition.
Me being a big MOPAR fan I hate the situation. I hate it even more because I’m young and trying to become a Chrysler tech and all this nonsense leaves me with few options. Could it be said that all this could have been avoided if Lutz was Lee’s succesor, most certainly. But it is what it is. Can’t change it no matter how hard we may wish.
I do think(or at least I hope) Marchionne has some idea of what he is doing, considering his track record. But I think we can all hope that he does realize the good assests he does have(i.e. Ram, minivans, LX’s, LC’s, Wrangler).
However, changing the brands around won’t help much. The Ram stays with Dodge, plain and simple. In fact, my view on the brands would be
Plymouth(if I could bring it back): ultra-compact,compact, midsize, minivan economy cars. No frills. Just basic transportation at a reasonable price
Dodge: more upscale cars, gain a full size, all the Rams(and I’m all for bringing back the RamVan), maybe an SUV, minivan, crossover, obviously keep the Charger and Challenger.
Chrysler: the luxury brand, I think in time the Chrysler name can be brought up to Lincoln/Buick level, Keep the 300, get the 200 out ASAP, maybe a fullsize crossover or SUV.
Jeep: the go anywhere over anything with lots of payload brand, keep the Wrangler, keep the GC, keep the Liberty(and kill it’s Nitro brother in the process), and keep the Patriot, all I say is make them capable while still comfortable, and offer the ability to upgrade to luxury from spartan.
Of course that’s just my opinion, but I think we can all agree on that the next few years will be rough, but with the right planning, frame of mind, and the will, Chrysler can come back strong(and hopefully FINALLY learn how to not let death come near every 20-something years).
No, we can’t rewrite history. A lot of mistakes have been made. Too bad the Daimler management team was full of crooks and incompetent people. A wasted decade in my mind. I often wonder what Lutz at the helm would’ve brought us. I also wonder if Chrysler should’ve picked up Mitsubishi long ago and/or partnered closer with Hyundai or Kia. I don’t think we’d be saying FIAT and Chrysler in the same breath if those things had occurred.
Before Daimler screwed the pooch, vehicles like the Durango and Dakota were decent sellers. Minivans were on top. As was the Grand Cherokee. And the LH cars developed a following of sorts. Even the Breeze/Cirrus/Sebring/Stratus weren’t all that bad. It’s the replacements of all of the above that left potential customers uninspired. Me included.
I’m not sure what Cerberus might have done had the economy not tanked and fuel prices risen. So, I don’t blame them for not doing much except to hang on waiting for better days….or a bailout. Chrysler needs “product”. The LH, ‘96-’07 minivan and ‘94 Ram kind of product. Without FIAT willing to make some significant investment, I’m not sure they can do anything but mild refreshes. I have a feeling the upcoming Grand Cherokee and the Rams will be the last of the total restyles we’ll see for years to come. I even have my doubts the 200C will ever get launched. I kind of expect that they’ll just start weaving FIAT products in where they can and exploit the dealer and parts distribution network.
Just one quick note… the J-cars received just about every award a new car can win, even if they weren’t a huge sales success; and they made a profit, unlike their more-popular predecessors.
As for product, Chrysler still leads with the Wrangler and Ram; they’re still well above most of the players with the Charger, Patriot, Challenger, and minivans; and they’re still in the running with most of the rest of their stuff. It’s not like they’re trying to field the Dodge Dynasty against the Toyota Avalon, though a lot of people make it sound like that.
Many people are making the gap seem much larger than it is… and forgetting about the class-leading vehicles (2009 Ram!!!) and those which are in the “top two” (minivans!).
Yes, and sales are strong for Challenger, still top ten for Ram even in this economy, and they’ve held number one for minivans.
I’m really encouraged they seem to have a plan to try to compete. it seems Fiat appreciates the potential that the Chrysler group has. Repositioning the Chrysler brand a notch above Dodge, and trying to make Dodge more of a mass-market brand seems to be right on target. That has been the main deficiency of the last ten years (overlap and dwindling away of cars from segments that Chrysler Corp. was once strong in, like small cars).
I don’t know what specific models will come to fruition. But I think there is alot of promise in what we do know, and probably some pleasant surprises in what we don’t. If Chrysler can redo the 300 with the same skill Cadillac did for its Gen2 CTS, the brand will be well on its way to being the premium lineup Fiat envisions. If the new Charger can keep gaining police sales while at the same time competing against Taurus and Avalon etc, and Dodge gets one or two small cars on par with Fiesta or Forte, a midsize at least as good as Accord and Camry, Dodge will be able to compete very effectively against Toyota, Chevrolet, Ford, etc.
The Charger ads are good. One way to separate the 2011 Chrysler 300 from Charger would be to offer a 300 horsepower Pentastar V-6 standard on the Chrysler (no longer a “base” car), maybe something like 215 and 270 horse Pentastar V-6s on the base Chargers–which would probably have significantly better gas mileage than the 2.7 and 3.5 now.
Lets see an Alpha 159 based 200C !
Someone suggested basing the Charger on the 200C chassis and making it a 2+2. Why? We have the Challenger. It should be made into a true GT style four door that can complete with the Lexus, BMW, rat-fink Mercedes, etc. Heck, it is almost there now so make it what it already aspires to be.
Get the hell out of NASCAR. I can’t think anyone thing that takes as much money and talent for so little, nay make that negative, return. All dodge is making an ass of itself so Ford, Toyota and the Frances’ all time favorite, GM can look good. Petty leaving and the inability for Penske to turn things around is all extremely negative publicity for Chrysler/Dodge and the only way to stop it is to get out! It time to concentrate Chrysler/Fiats resources on building first quality, green compliant, fuel saving vehicles that people can actually purchase and drive. NASCAR has been out of stock car racing for, what twenty-five plus years now? If NACAR had anything real effect on automobile sales think GM or Honda would be in their current conditions? Has Toyota’s sales jumped up due to their participation? Take a serious look at it.
Upgrade Chrysler. If not to Cadillac, at least a click above Buick. And get rid of all competing models. Why have Caravans and T&C’s unless the T&C becomes the luxury model of Caravan. Sebring and Avenger? One or the other, with maybe a new name.
A new, economical line of grocery-getters/commute vehicles, based on Fiat, with new names. Maybe Plymouth or some of Plymouths old model names. But I think a whole new identity would be best.
Dodge? Ram? Well, Dodge still enjoys a reputation of building good trucks. I see no real reason to change it. Dakota? Mmmmmm. Durango, as a hybrid yes and dump Aspen. Keep pushing on the class 4’s and 5’s and get an Iveco or Fiat federalized to replace the Sprinter.
Jeep. A new and much improved Grand Cherokee, keep it up with the Wrangler and a replacement for the Cherokee, some thing to directly compete with the likes of the RAV4, etc. I can’t even decipher what Jeep models are in what class anymore. I do know they have two or so more models than they need.
Chrysler – luxury. Dodge – GT and Trucks. Jeep – Jeeps. And ???? for everyday transportation. Leave NASCAR for those that think it has anything to do with automobiles anymore.
John,
The Charger and 200C are already on the same chassis.
I agree regarding NASCAR and most of the rest. (Except of course Plymouth. If one name is as good as another, choose the one that’ll please a large segment of stubborn old coots like me, and send a message that Chrysler’s heritage is not being dropped for Fiat.
Dave,
If your saying that Chrysler’s heritage is no being dropped by Fiat then, what are you implying?
Did I just read “FRATZOG’ for the Dodge lineup of cars? Wasn’t the RAM used back in the 30’s on Dodge division cars? Comon. The Ram symbol has become an icon for the brand. Ford has the F-series lineup of trucks, but their cars AND trucks still share the Blue Oval. No need to confuse the public with different logos. At least they finally dropped the “Pentastar” as the airbag logo, and made some headway with brand identity.
As far as Challenger being a GT competiting with Lexus and MB? Really? Because the car doesn’t strike me as a Lexus fighter. Firepower! Would have been the better one for that.
Sergio Marchionne just needs to concentrate on the job of making mass
market cars for the U.S. Market that are marketable. How he reaches
that goal is the question…Its always best to use existing technology
rather than creating all new platforms when the economy is suffering.
I still think Mitsubishi is ready to pull out of the U.S. (and I think
they should) but the Lancer and Galant could be excellent stop-gap cars
for Chrysler until the next generation Fiat Linea/Alfa Romeo 159 can
be adapted for U.S. assembly lines…and tastes. These and Lancia models
like the Lancia Thesis are just too odd looking for U.S. and Canadian
consumerss. They make the Ford Scorpio, the Ssangyongs, and the Scion
xB/xA’s all look like dream cars in comparison.
The Bertone Group purchase was a good move on Fiat’s part. I think Bertone
can create some great designs that will make people want to buy Chryslers
over the competition. No more ugly Dakotas (latest generation) and poorly
proportioned Avengers, Grand Caravans, and Sebrings.
All I would ask is that Marchionne refrain from adding new Truck divisions
when Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, and even Honda sell cars and trucks
under the same nameplate. Dodge has been associated with Rams since the
1930’s according to one of your bloggers and I can’t imagine what logo
would be better than a Ram logo on their cars (or the NFL team either). They
can easily sell cars and trucks in Europe as Dodges since that nameplate has
been there off and on for years. Or they can even sell trucks only under the
Iveco or Fiat names if they so desire. Dodge is not a “damaged” brand like a
Pontiac, Buick, or Oldsmobile was/were. It just needs an infusion of new models
that are desirable and that will make us all forget the Cerebrus Capital years.
dakota, he meant the Charger, because they make 4-doors that are pretty quick, although I don’t see it competing well against them, the 300 yes, the Charger, no.
Leave Chrysler as the luxury brand, Dodge as the sport/muscle brand, and as Jeep the utilitarian brand. Maybe introduce Fiat as the economy line. Get rid of redundant vehicles and simplify the lineup. Why is that so hard?
I worry that this talk of a RAM brand means Dodge and Chrysler could be eliminated altogether, with Fiat continuing the Jeep and truck lines. I would prefer the Chrysler brand to go upscale again (it hasn’t been since about 1981). Make the Town and Country far more upscale than the Caravan. Take the lead again in van style, power and technology. They should own the market! The Sebring name is tarnished. Drop it. Period. Replace the convertible with the 300C convertible concept that was shown years ago; an upscale, rear-drive, Hemi, etc. They could keep restyle the Sebring convertible and make it an Avenger convertible. make it affordable too. I’m looking forward to the 300C update and the 200C is right on target. Turbocharge that Phoenix V6 and blow the new Lincolns in the weeds! They also need to get back to work on that dual-clutch 6-speed transmission, or at least buy one fro manother manufacturer until it is ready. Dodge needs to fix the dashboard on the Journey (it looks cheap) and improve the look of the front end. The new V6 should breath new life into it as well. Dodge needs a small sedan to replace the Neon. The Neon name would be fine, or call it Dart. Not everyone likes a hatchback. Speaking of hatchbacks, the PT Cruiser has a following but needs an updated platform. Do not drop it, but restyle the Caliber to be the new PT Cruiser and make it a Dodge (or bring back Plymouth). Drop the Caliber. Speaking of Plymouth, I think the Challenger is going to get long in the tooth. Restyle it into the new Barracuda/’Cuda and stretch the life of the platform for about a three year run. Suspend the Challenger while working on it’s replacement in a smaller sportier form. When it comes out, the ‘Cuda run will be over, and depending on demand, it could possibly continue on the smaller platform as well. I hope the new Charger looks more like a Charger, even if it has four doors. One thought about the small front-drive Jeeps; why not create a youth oriented off-shoot of the Jeep brand and call it “Jeepster.” Make them inexpensive, economical, and some could be off-road ready and eco-friendly. Make some drop-tops just like the old Jeepster brand. Those cars have a cult-following and were by all means, not off-road ready. I’m surprised no one has thought of it yet. I could go on because I have many more opinions, but I’ll stop. Just my 2 cents!
When the Fiat Ducato and Iveco Daily vans show up, what will they name them? GM exited the medium truck market and Dodge has no problem selling 4500 and 5500 Ram chassis cabs. There is room to grow into the heavier GVW ranges. Fiat will be building 3 liter diesel motors for Mitsubishi Fuso, because that truck maker has a lot of trouble controlling costs with their German taskmasters.
Plymouth: Almost all Fiat based. Under $25K, most around $15K. Small cars. Sell the 500C as a Plymouth. Heck, call it a Neon. It sort of looks like an evolution of it. Or call it a Valiant or even a Cricket. Anything but 500. Why should your cheapest car be called 500 when the more expensive ones are 200s and 300s?!? Bring the PT back to Plymouth and make it a 500 based utility ala Mini Clubman. A convertible 500 too. Offer a stripper Voyager.
Dodge: Midsize cars, sporty cars and trucks. Fill in the “red state” brand gap left by Pontiac. All mostly under $40K with the majority in the $20s. Ram, Challenger, Charger, Caravan, midsize Avenger replacement on a Mopar platform. Small Dakota pickup to fight cheap Mahindra pickups. Reskinned Journey possible but lots of overlap already in that market.Replace Sprinter with a Fiat commercial van. Call it the Ram cargo or maybe even call that the Plymouth Voyager.
Chrysler: At least as good as Lincoln and as good as or better than Cadillac with the big cars. As good as or better than Lexus, etc with the 200c. $35K and up. Redesigned, upmarket 300C. New 200C. Possibly an RX fighter SUV but possibly fill that niche with a 300 wagon ala the Magnum or new Cad CTS wagon. Make this line as good as it gets.
Jeep: Appeals to hardcore off roaders on one hand while appealing to the Land Rover Country Club set on the other. Priced from almost cheap to luxury levels. Upmarket Grand Cherokee, beefed up Wrangler, and one small to midsized unibody SUV.
I think the “RAM” story will prove to be false, just as the rumors of killing the Chrysler brand were false, we now know. It would make no sense, it would be throwing away nearly twenty years of marketing and sales success with the Dodge Ram truck in the US, Mexico, etc. If Dodge is known for anything it’s for making trucks. Launching a new brand at this point would go against every trend that exists. I just don’t believe it will happen. i remember a few years ago GM was supposedly going to make Corvette a separate brand.
What might make sense is if they apply the Ram name to more categories of vehicle: to various vans that Fiat might sell through Dodge. That would make sense, and it’s not unprecedented, what with past Ram Vans and Mini Ram Vans. “Dodge Ram Van” would probably sell better than “Dodge Sprinter.”
I don’t see them adding any domestic brands. Alfa ought to be a decent niche brand, maybe taking a few sales from VW and Audi, but I don’t expect record-breaking sales; same goes for the 500, will probably do ok, it’s a good little car. As much as I value Plymouth’s heritage and the memories I have of Plymouths, bringing it back would be like Sony deciding to launch a new television line called “Dumont” or “Predicta.” We go back to a brand that’s been discontinued for eight years. After we separate Dodge and Chrysler–stop them from selling the same cars–we go back to having two cheaper lineups competing with each other in the same showroom. Hasn’t GM showed that strategy is no good anymore? Even Scion isn’t working that well for Toyota–they can afford such experiments, Chrysler cannot.
Even by the slightest chance that Plymouth does come back, the cars should be priced lower than Dodge and Chrysler so that Chrysler would be able to get out of the slump faster than it in right. the line be:Barracuda, Road Runner, Prowler, Voyager/Grand Voyager, Breeze, Neon(same as the Fiat 500), and other rebadged Fiat models.
Dave, you’re right about the J-cars. I still miss our departed 2004 Stratus SXT….R.I.P – totalled at 85K miles almost 2 years ago. The only problem we had with the Stratus was the heater-A/C fan control module defaulting to two settings: High and Off. About $45.00 and 90 minutes of being a contortionist solved that problem. Otherwise, the car was 100% reliable and averaged 24-25 MPG with the 2.4L PZEV engine and automatic. Best of all, it didn’t look like anything else on the road (except the Sebring). Sure, the interior materials and fit & finish might not have been up to Toyota standards (or Chrysler’s current standards), but I only paid $14,500 for the car brand new. I have a feeling we’ll still be seeing a lot of them on the road for a decade or two to come. They kind of remind of the Darts and Valiants. Simple, straightforward, cheap to buy, cheap to run, cheap to repair and almost indestructible…..unless you hit a Grand Cherokee. :)
I have a 1997 Plymouth Breeze and its still working perfectly at 154000 miles. I would like to see Plymouth comeback because then all the other people with Plymouth’s would get another one, like myself.
Note to ScottB: the second generation J body/platform is still around———-in Russia. :)
I think everyone will be surprised…personally, from being “in the trenches” for the Board of Director meetings and the CTC design dome as being their IT support, things are coming and coming fast! Just check out todays Freep.com reporting, they arent completely accurate, but they have some sources that know a good majority of the plans…
I think the main reaseon is that they are duming there ad agency and looking for a new one. Afer that we may start hearing some things. Like the Ram line being its own division, and more about Fiat,Alfa. But thank God BBDO will be gone.
To be fair to BBDO, they WERE just doing what they were told. As DeLorean wrote, if you remove the constraints from the agency, the agency may well be able to do excellent work.
Thanks, Chrysler Insider. I just read that article and it’s good news.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090924/BUSINESS01/909240376/1206/business0103/Chrysler-to-rehire-some-employees
Seems like the plans in place are good ones. Ironically it was Lee Iacocca that envisioned a tie-up with Fiat; now it really looks like it can work. Hopefully the rumors can be put to rest; I think once people see the new 300 and Charger they will understand Chrysler isn’t going away (much like the reaction when the LH came out, which followed the Ward’s Auto World cover stories that Chrysler would go bankrupt in the recession of 1992. That was a dark time put to rest by well-designed product)
Bearhawke,…good to hear from you by the way…Yes, I know the J-car tooling went to Russia. That’s there gain for sure. I think the Chryslers should hold up well in a somewhat harsher environment than some of the competition. That is, of course, assuming the Russians are bulding them as well as they were here. The J’s were the Dart/Valiant of their time. Who knows, the current Avenger/Sebring may prove to be that durable as well. That’s the sad part about Chrysler’s history, it takes 20 years to finally figure out that these are darn good vehicles. And generally cheap to keep.
They need new product, and they need it now. There advertisements are stale, their websites are stale, their product line in the buyers mind is stale. You go on their lots, they are empty. GM came out of bankruptsy with new ads, new promos, new vehicles to hit the showrooms. I am afraid if the trend continues at Chrysler, the are going to be a thing of the past. If they have something locked up in some “dropbox”, they better bring it out sooner than later.
Actually, I was thinking the same thing as this blog entry today – that’s why I stopped by Allpar – to see if anything new was coming out. Sadly, no. Look at what GM is doing – massive ad blitz with CEO basically daring people to try out a GM car. They even have a 90 day return! I thought it was weird that they kept Buick because I only associated those with “seniors”… but man, I just got a look at the shots of the new LaCrosse (Allure) and I have to say, I’d actually consider buying that. I mean, wow. GM has new product and ads to try and restore confidence. Chrysler has… well… they have the RAM. I really do hope they’re gearing up for something – ANYTHING – because I’m a die hard Mopar man and I really don’t want to have to buy my next vehicle in a GM dealership.