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	<title>Comments on: The New Iacocca</title>
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	<description>Chrysler, car, and other discussions by Allpar contributors</description>
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		<title>By: Azrael</title>
		<link>http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2009/10/14/the-new-iacocca/comment-page-2/#comment-78101</link>
		<dc:creator>Azrael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 04:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Have to wonder though, about Penske in his bid to get Saturn. If he were going to get Saturn, why wasn’t he going to secure the manufacturing facility as well? Maybe someone will explain that. Unless GM didn’t want anyone to obtain the facility. Does that make sense? I don’t think it was his failure, but more the falling through of Renault to refuse to make the cars. Really is too bad, we don’t need another shuttered manufacturing facility in this country. We have way too many plants that are closed as it is! Saturn makes a good car, have to admit it.&quot;

Saturn has no &quot;manufacturing facilities&quot;. Whatsoever. It was folded into GM as a bog standard division, with the first US use of the Delta I in the Ion (and I think the Ecotech family of 4 bangers). Saturn&#039;s old Springfield, TN plant was making some CUV or another, and will probably be shuttered as TN would not pay GM millions of dollars in bribe money. However, it was fully owned by GM, and not Saturn. 

Penske was buying the dealership body and name, which was and is outstanding in all respects, and a limited number of years of vehicles from GM until he had replacements (3 IIRC). However, he could not find anyone who had US-ready cars that could be ready in time, and would sell him any as it would be competing against themselves. 

It would have taken far too long to develop a entirely new car chassis, engine, drivetrain, etc.., certify it, crash test it, buy and tool a plant, staff said plant, manufacture, and then market the car. 3-5 years at least, with investments of 20-25 BILLION dollars. And it would probably have cost so much that Saturn would be basically as it was in the beginning; a decent car, but no money to update it and make it competitive. Except there would have been no GM to fold back into further on up the road. 

I don&#039;t blame Renault for not going through; they are partnered with Nissan, and thus would have been competing against themselves. It would have been Saturn Versa vs Nissan Versa, Saturn Sentra vs Nissan Sentra, etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Have to wonder though, about Penske in his bid to get Saturn. If he were going to get Saturn, why wasn’t he going to secure the manufacturing facility as well? Maybe someone will explain that. Unless GM didn’t want anyone to obtain the facility. Does that make sense? I don’t think it was his failure, but more the falling through of Renault to refuse to make the cars. Really is too bad, we don’t need another shuttered manufacturing facility in this country. We have way too many plants that are closed as it is! Saturn makes a good car, have to admit it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Saturn has no &#8220;manufacturing facilities&#8221;. Whatsoever. It was folded into GM as a bog standard division, with the first US use of the Delta I in the Ion (and I think the Ecotech family of 4 bangers). Saturn&#8217;s old Springfield, TN plant was making some CUV or another, and will probably be shuttered as TN would not pay GM millions of dollars in bribe money. However, it was fully owned by GM, and not Saturn. </p>
<p>Penske was buying the dealership body and name, which was and is outstanding in all respects, and a limited number of years of vehicles from GM until he had replacements (3 IIRC). However, he could not find anyone who had US-ready cars that could be ready in time, and would sell him any as it would be competing against themselves. </p>
<p>It would have taken far too long to develop a entirely new car chassis, engine, drivetrain, etc.., certify it, crash test it, buy and tool a plant, staff said plant, manufacture, and then market the car. 3-5 years at least, with investments of 20-25 BILLION dollars. And it would probably have cost so much that Saturn would be basically as it was in the beginning; a decent car, but no money to update it and make it competitive. Except there would have been no GM to fold back into further on up the road. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t blame Renault for not going through; they are partnered with Nissan, and thus would have been competing against themselves. It would have been Saturn Versa vs Nissan Versa, Saturn Sentra vs Nissan Sentra, etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2009/10/14/the-new-iacocca/comment-page-2/#comment-78095</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/?p=918#comment-78095</guid>
		<description>If Fiat wants to gain some ground in America gain, then Sergio should bring Plymouth into the fray as an intermediate brand between Fiat, Alfa Romeo, and Lancia.  Plymouth could be the sticky stuff that holds everything together, like it did in the 30&#039;s during the Great Depression.  Plymouth would bring the spark back into Chrysler that it has been missing since it has been gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Fiat wants to gain some ground in America gain, then Sergio should bring Plymouth into the fray as an intermediate brand between Fiat, Alfa Romeo, and Lancia.  Plymouth could be the sticky stuff that holds everything together, like it did in the 30&#8217;s during the Great Depression.  Plymouth would bring the spark back into Chrysler that it has been missing since it has been gone.</p>
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		<title>By: Dusty</title>
		<link>http://www.allpar.com/weblogs/2009/10/14/the-new-iacocca/comment-page-2/#comment-78057</link>
		<dc:creator>Dusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess we&#039;ll have to wait until tomorrow&#039;s official release of information, but the Wall Street Journal&#039;s report and ensuing rumors are making me very uneasy and I&#039;m starting to feel the pall of pessimism set in. If the rumors are true it will appear that the sacking of a once great, iconic American automotive brand will continue. The rape of Chrysler by Daimler, then the languishing by Cerberus, and what may turn out to be the hollowing out by Fiat, should be recorded among the most cold-blooded corporate stories of all time.

It would make sense that a Fiat in control of a major American automotive manufacturing center would desire the advancement of Fiat at the expense of the former. I sense that the direction might be to build up Fiat in North America and let Chrysler eventually fade. 

I suppose one cannot blame Marcionne for thinking like a European. Perhaps an American would do the same thing if the situation was reversed. The rumor that LX will be taken over by Fiat is disheartening. But it is very sad that the decision of just a few men, especially Robert Eaton, could have such a debilitating effect on the lives of thousands and the destruction of a once thriving and brilliant company. Steve Rattner’s recent disclosure that the government was quite prepared to let Ford and GM have Chrysler’s former customers by refusing the same assistance to Chrysler that it was promising to other companies, was an appalling display of governmental arrogance as I’ve ever witnessed. Only the negative effects on upwards of 300,000 workers, once belatedly realized, kept the government from participating in the instant death of Chrysler.

Maybe the circulating rumors only represent the worst of the oncoming message, and that the good stuff, if any really exists, is to be forthcoming in the official announcement. Maybe. But just as I now view Eaton’s original decision that Chrysler needed a partner in 1997 as gross ineptness, I’m even more convinced that any arrangement with another auto company in the future will be prone to work against Chrysler.

Cross your fingers, my friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we&#8217;ll have to wait until tomorrow&#8217;s official release of information, but the Wall Street Journal&#8217;s report and ensuing rumors are making me very uneasy and I&#8217;m starting to feel the pall of pessimism set in. If the rumors are true it will appear that the sacking of a once great, iconic American automotive brand will continue. The rape of Chrysler by Daimler, then the languishing by Cerberus, and what may turn out to be the hollowing out by Fiat, should be recorded among the most cold-blooded corporate stories of all time.</p>
<p>It would make sense that a Fiat in control of a major American automotive manufacturing center would desire the advancement of Fiat at the expense of the former. I sense that the direction might be to build up Fiat in North America and let Chrysler eventually fade. </p>
<p>I suppose one cannot blame Marcionne for thinking like a European. Perhaps an American would do the same thing if the situation was reversed. The rumor that LX will be taken over by Fiat is disheartening. But it is very sad that the decision of just a few men, especially Robert Eaton, could have such a debilitating effect on the lives of thousands and the destruction of a once thriving and brilliant company. Steve Rattner’s recent disclosure that the government was quite prepared to let Ford and GM have Chrysler’s former customers by refusing the same assistance to Chrysler that it was promising to other companies, was an appalling display of governmental arrogance as I’ve ever witnessed. Only the negative effects on upwards of 300,000 workers, once belatedly realized, kept the government from participating in the instant death of Chrysler.</p>
<p>Maybe the circulating rumors only represent the worst of the oncoming message, and that the good stuff, if any really exists, is to be forthcoming in the official announcement. Maybe. But just as I now view Eaton’s original decision that Chrysler needed a partner in 1997 as gross ineptness, I’m even more convinced that any arrangement with another auto company in the future will be prone to work against Chrysler.</p>
<p>Cross your fingers, my friends.</p>
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