Don’t believe a word of it!
The Wall Street Journal scooped everyone on the Five Year Plan, or so it seemed. The next day, an automotive news outlet of great repute came out with an equally incorrect but consistent story based on “informed sources.” Finally, someone who certainly knows Auto Task Force insiders came out with another consistent story which would relegate Chrysler to minivans and trucks. It might still be true, but only if you consider the basic platforms – an important part of the vehicle but not necessarily the MOST important part. After all, consider that the Reliant, Daytona, Imperial, and minivan were all based on the same basic platform (they did not have the same platform but they were all based on the same platform).
Here’s our story on the Journal’s story:
According to the Wall Street Journal, which claims access to people who have seen Fiat’s plan for Chrysler, many of the recent rumors regarding current models are incorrect, and Chrysler will incorporate more Fiat Group products than expected.
Vehicles planned for the US, according to the Journal article, include a replacement for the Chrysler Sebring, based on a Fiat design. The PT Cruiser, Sebring, Avenger, Compass, Caliber, and Patriot will all have their final year in 2012, with even the popular Dodge Caravan ducking out; the Chrysler Town & Country will be Chrysler’s sole minivan, according to the article, though historically the Caravan has sold better. The Nitro will also be dropped.
Marketing for the Fiat 500 is unclear; the article claims it will not use the Fiat name but “will be marketed as the 500.”
Alfa Romeos to be sold in the US starting in 2012 include the MiTo subcompact hatch, a midsized sedan, and the Milano, all to be made in North America. Chrysler will start up a Sebring replacement and compact sedan in 2012 and a compact Fiat-based Jeep in 2013, they say.
To be kept are the Dodge Challenger and Dodge Charger.
Under this plan, Dodge would be strictly muscle cars and trucks, while Chrysler would take over the “Chevrolet – Plymouth – Ford – Toyota” position as the “everycar” brand. No mention was made of plans to move Chrysler upscale, which were announced by the former head of the Chrysler brand shortly before he resigned.
Now, a lot of this is true. What isn’t? The Dodge Grand Caravan will remain, and be redesigned in 2014. The Nitro’s fate is unknown. Liberty will move to a Fiat platform. Fiat 500 will be called the Fiat 500 and will use the Fiat name. Dodge will get new cars, based on Fiat designs – with one actual Fiat imported without changes (beyond what is needed for sale in the US). Chrysler will indeed be moving upscale, if not in price then in image.
Above all, the engineering staff is going to be increased. And, while the charts do show numerous Fiat platforms coming to the US, to the point where 50% of Chrysler’s vehicles will be Fiat-based, the charts also differentiate between vehicles made by Fiat and imported “as is,” and those re-engineered by Chrysler to meet their own needs. Whether this is a sheet-metal-and-shock-absorber deal or a true re-engineering, we don’t know. You can build very different cars on a single platform – Audi TT vs Volkswagen Jetta, anyone? Camaro vs G8 or Nova? Mustang vs Ford Fairmont? Belvedere Six vs Hemi Superbird?
The second media outlet claimed that Chrysler and Dodge would disappear outside of North America. It now appears that Chrysler will continue in Asia, and in other markets Chrysler and Lancia will alternate; while Dodge will still be used here and there, sparingly. There is a lot more sharing going on than one would expect.
Oh, and the amount of money going to Fiat… remember all those billions in consulting fees going to Mercedes, for “sharing” their lovely previous-generation-but-still-expensive technologies? Fiat has so far gotten $0. What’s more, they haven’t shifted everything to Italian suppliers. Mainly, though –
For the first time since Daimler first took over, an increase in the engineering staff was announced.
Wow.<
Maybe it’ll work out after all.
Like I said in a different comment. Perhaps it’s time for a Press Release to the Press of Allpar’s reporting of this. :)
I mean if those who seem to be professionals can’t get it right and Allpar did get it right, shouldn’t the world be told of that?
Congratulations to ALLPAR. We got it right, a home run otta da park! Now the world ought to take some notice. Of course, we are sort of used to being right around the “zero” spot whenever things are going down due to some very critical analysis and good information. Things that supposedly, the “big” outlets are supposed to be infused with all the time.
I think, judging by what Marchionne laid out, that for the near and far future, we are going to be getting back to that “exciting” ride like when we first got the brand new MoPar! Hooray for Chrysler!
I am also heartened by the fact that the engineering staff, the real heart and soul of what used to be Chrysler is going to increase for the first time since the end of the 1990s! Boo, hiss on both Daimler (I hope Marchionne kicks their ass) and Cerberus. May the middle head bite the other two heads on that money grubber.
I like to reiterate how good of a job Allpar did on the coverage. I tried to follow it with Autoblog but they kept adding their digs and negative comments every posting- it was awful. Thanks goodness for the solid reporting from Allpar. It is hard to be a Chrysler fan these days and it is nice to still have a site that puts Chrysler in a positive spin.
I am excited what was announced. The improvement in the World engines alone may save Chrysler the next few years until Fiat is integrated. Has anyone even drove a Sebring that has criticized it? I have and it is not a bad car. It was quiet and I thought the World Engine was adequate and I had no problem with the interior (this was a 2009 I drove). If they can tweak the exterior and improve the interior while adding direct injection to the World Engines it will be a very competitive car. The same goes for the Caliber. The cars themselves are not bad, it’s the powertrains that are holding them back. If they can make all those improvements to their exisiting models in 2010 I think Chrysler will be on the right track.
Good News – It really annoys me when all of the media take things out of proportion – Glad to hear about the international news that chrysler will still alternate – Perahps when Chrysler UK get my angry letter about replacing the 300c with a lancia they will wonder what Im on about…..
Once again I’d like to thank David and any others who were part of this excellent reporting of “The Plan.” For me the entire experience included not only the content of the coverage but also seeing the responses of those in the Allpar Forum, especially the regulars. It was somewhat like the excitement of attending a major sporting event – where one’s favored team was victorious.
I feel that Chrysler now has an excellent chance for a bright future. After watching the interview with Sergio, I had even more respect for the man. The return of true enthusiasm to the organization is something that Walter P Chrysler would be proud of.
In there it says that Chrysler would be moving to upscale models, who is going to be picking up the base models??? Would Fiat bring Plymouth bring Plymouth back at the end of this Five Year Plan??
Dodge is being repositioned as The New Plymouth which makes sense, given their encroachments on Plymouth’s territory since the 1960s and the loss of their market niche, the midrange market (once held by Dodge, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mercury). There is no exact analogue of the original Plymouth, to be fair – tough, value-priced, yet advanced in basic technology – but Dodge will be value-priced, fun-to-drive, etc. in the plan as I read it.
Yes, unless you were writing from Italy ;)
Mike, you keep on going after the same thing about Plymouth. I don’t want to throw cold water on your parade, but…….. IT Just AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN, bud. It just isn’t in the cards for Plymouth, or Oldsmobile, or now Pontiac, Saturn, to come back. Dead, buried and will have to stay that way. There are formidable and insurmountable COSTS in real big American dollars that would have to be spent to make a long dead vehicle spring to life. Another generation is coming up that has never known what Plymouth even was, and frankly, they could care less. It does appear that Dodge, after it’s incursion into Plymouth territory in 1960, is finally moving into the Plymouth niche, making it ever FAR more unlikely that Plymouth will rise again. No one is going to even venture just how much it would cost to try to make a Plymouth again. And don’t forget, it was Chrysler itself that sent Plymouth into the grave, not just Daimler. Besides, why would you buy a Plymouth when you can get a Dodge that does the same thing? At the same price!
Mister Redgap, I was saddened when the plug was pulled on Plymouth and, whether it was inevitable or not, still hate the Daimler folks for making this final. Was the PT (Plymouth Truck) Cruiser the car to save Plymouth? We’ll never know! At least it survived, albeit as a Chrysler, for over ten years and remains quite popular to this day. In view of the merger of Chrysler with Fiat and the news of platform sharing to make so many new models, injecting new blood into Chrysler (good news indeed), along with bringing some Fiat and Alfa Romeo models to the US market, the revival of the Plymouth Brand sounds all the more unlikely. Mike, how could they bring back a full range of (Plymouth) cars while they’re already planning to multiply models yet reducing the number of platforms?… That being said, I can’t help having a full range of PT Cruiser styled cars – Fiat 500 based micro car, small hatch, small saloon, medium saloon, 2 sizes of crossover including a 3rd generation of PT, etc… all with that distinctive 1st Generation PT Cruiser grille and neo-retro design – populating my wet dreams!
Road-Runner and Mr.Redgap,
I’m saying that it wouldn’t be an instant comeback, I saying for when this 5 year plan is over and Chrysler is back on its feet and could support itself, that would be a good time for the comeback for Plymouth. Also it would be a gradual return, like a few small models and a mid-size model. They would use the same chassis of the Dodge, Chrysler and Fiat models but have their own styling. It could be like that for a few year then add a few more mid-size models and maybe a muscle car.
Hi Road Runner. Your points are well taken, and right on the mark as far as seeing a Plymouth marque ever again. That particular niche though, has stood rather unfilled since Plymouth was pulled from it. I am also saddened by the apparent loss of the PT Cruiser. I just am enamored with mine, and for what it is, find it oh so enjoyable to drive and operate. Fiat based sort of look alikes aside, they just will not be the same thing. I personally believe that the PT has not been fully vetted, even yet. No reason why a 2.0 4 cylinder couldn’t be fitted, and do wonders for mileage improvements. That is the one area where it is obvious that it isn’t up to high expectations. Like you indicate, FIAT take note….. if you are NOT going to build the Cruiser after 2010, at least give a couple of those FIAT based models the face of the PT.
Plymouth is not going to come back, as much as some would like to see it. Five years? It has been a long time already, and people have short memories. Ask some of the new generation what a Plymouth car is, and you will draw blank stares. There are more available current vehicles that will fit right into the niche that used to be Plymouth. Dodge, apparently, is now slated to jump into the slot, which is fitting since they did more to kill Plymouth than even the competition from other makes did. Given the penchant for profit margins, even if Chrysler is wildly successful, you would have to ask “why Plymouth now?” In fact, given that it becomes wildly or even mildly successful in those given 5 years, you can be sure that the investors would not stand idly by and see HUGE sums of money being poured into a division that has long been dead, and quite buried, since the last one rolled away. There would be NO reason or rationale for it.