Whither the 200C and Dodge Circuit?
One of the more interesting aspects of the Five Year Plan presentation was the Q&A period at the end, in which people asked Sergio Marchionne questions to which the answer was obvious, like (paraphrasing) “Are you kidding?” and “Really, are you kidding?”
But, reflecting the general tendency of mass media reporters and analysts to not remember the companies they’re following, nobody asked about a few key items.
The first of those was the Chrysler 200C, which many people felt could be a game-changer for Chrysler. The rear wheel drive sedan could be gas-powered, hybrid, or electric, and it was reportedly ready for production. A photo of the interior display was used in the Chrysler overview as an icon for innovation. Still, absolutely no mention of this car was made, and none was in the charts and graphics. That does not mean it’s dead, but it’s not a good sign, either.
The second was the general electric strategy – the “modular components used in existing cars” idea. It appears to be dead, but there’s no real way of knowing. We do know that the prior strategy is gone now, and only one electric commercial vehicle is planned for the near future – an electric minivan or electric Fiat commercial van, it seems, with the latter being more likely. (Of interest, again, is that Chrysler built and sold electric vans in the 1990s, which were completely ignored by the movie “Who killed the electric car?” but which are still on the street. Some of them, anyway.)
The Dodge Circuit seems to be gone; it wasn’t mentioned by name but fits the description of the un-marketable car floating around. The Circuit would compete directly with the Tesla and the value proposition for Chrysler was… not there. I always thought that one was nutty, myself, because Tesla has that market wrapped up in the public and media eye. The Circuit could be like the Spirit R/T: fine on its own, but completely overshadowed by its competitor (Taurus SHO at the time), regardless of technical merit.
So where is the 200C?
There really is no way to know unless you’re at Chrysler. It’s possible they’ll swap it in for the existing Sebring with the “refresh” though everything they announced makes that seem very unlikely. It’s possible they’ll sell it as a surprise gift. It might show up as a Lancia or Alfa Romeo since it’s sized appropriately for those brands and would sell in competition with the front-wheel-drive Sebring and its successor.
We are intensely curious…
In the press conference afterwards, when talking about not revealing new cars ahead of time, Marchionne said, (quoting from memory), “I don’t want to show cars and then not deliver. The 200C has been shown around for quite a while now. That car is not makeable. “
Patrick McNamara was kind enough to find that quote. In his words: “Video 1 from 01:23 to 02:59. A reporter says something about skepticism because of products shown that don’t materialize. (I can’t hear the reporters well at all.) At 01:54 Sergio uses the 200 as an example. “The car that you saw here parading around for the last 24 months.” He says he is reluctant to present a car before its ready to launch. He also says, “It is not makeable, but somewhere along the line, I sold it to you.” ”
200C was not specifically mentioned by Sergio AFAIK. 200C was first seen at January NAIAS (see Allpar coverage).
This car was the first breath of fresh air that would help propel chrysler into and maybe ahead of the game. This is the vehicle that I personally was taking a good close look at, to purchase. It has style, innovation, class, quality, ( D ) all the ingredents needed to be a BIG winner. But to styfel the new ways of the future, NOW, would be like throwing out the anchor when your just leaving the docks. Full steam ahead, going in circles, making noise,and waves, but going no where fast. This is the new direction the public wants to go. But to stop ENVI now would automatically put the football in the opposing teams hands. You can’t be a leader that way. I thought that Sergio was starting to REALLY change the direction of CHRYSLER, but instead I see a smoke screen, hoopla, and baffelment, Business as usual, the old way. Hope there is some ryme or reason to this direction, Mr. Sergio is not a gumba. But he seams to be falling back on old business ways. To get cash flow going and maybe then new innovation? But to put the brakes on ENVI now is not the way to go. Sorry Sergio strike ONE !
09 challenger,
I am torn on this issue. I desperatly want my favorite company in the world to come out with this innovative tech first, or at least have it right away. But I also agree with Sergio when he says that storage issues need to be solved before mass market introduction. Now what Sergio did say is that the 200c is not makeable. When he uses these words I believe one of two things. First, he’s right, the tech inside the 200c concept is not ready for the mass market right now. (Touch screen interface dash, Range Extended EV, etc.) What I DO believe is that he is trying to hide something. I think, now call me far fetched, that Sergio chose those words carefully to get people off of the subject while his team quietly develops a 200c that is regular gas powered, normal dash interface. Who said that they can’t come out with that? All Sergio said was that the car, as it was, was un-make-able. He did not say that the design wasn’t able to be made. I have confidence that either the 200c design will be produced, or that there is a design that blows the 200c out of the water that will come out in the next few years. Sergio is a business man, and in my opinion, a gas powered 200c with a normal driver interface is a competitive product.
-Alex
He did NOT say the 200C is not makeable. He said a vehicle that was driving around for the last year was unmakeable. I assumed he meant the Dodge Circuit!
http://blog.chryslergroupllc.com/blog.do;jsessionid=CFD6C10F265E778A88C2FC4BDD4FAAAE?d-1775-p=2&p=home
Presentation Part One: 1 minute and 55 seconds
“I’ll give you an example. The 200 that you saw here parading through this organization in the last 24 months is a car that is not make able.”
Oho! I missed that. I’ll re-listen. Well, that’s bad news.
I have to say, it helps to have the new, clear version on their blog, than the much muddier version that was broadcast earlier!
Totally agreed on the muddy/clear statement. I think I could listen to Sergio speak for hours or even days. He really does have a nice approach to topics, and he is honest. Dave, I’m going to pose this question to you because you run this site, and frankly I trust you the most. What are the odds that when he said not make able he was referring to the experimental tech in the car and not the design itself. I mean a lot of the buzz it received was simply for design alone. So basically I want to know what you think the odds are that a 200c looking car will be Chrysler’s next move in the C segment.
Thanks
-Alex
The new Csegment Chrysler/Lancia sedan will most likely be the ‘same’ car for both USA/Europe, so given that, it will have to have styling that fits both brands. I personally think that we’ll see both brands mergeing their design cues. If that’s done, there’s no reason a 200C design that’s slightly tweaked couldn’t be both a Chrysler for North America as well as a Lancia for Europe.
I honestly don’t know. He might have be cagily referring to the powertrain which I’d believe was not ready. On the other hand, the car was clearly designed to be built as a gasoline powered vehicle, — sorta like the 1999 Charger which, if build, would have had a regular gas engine! The interior was fully functional from what I understand. There’s a lot that you could say is un-buildable in the concept as it was but the question remains, could it have been viable with a conventional powertrain and seats?
The case against the 200C becoming a production vehicle could of been the amount of Daimler parts involved. It shares wheelbase size and RWD with the Challenger. Many have speculated the 200C was going to be Chrysler’s 4 door Challenger. It has become painfully clear in the past few months that replacing Mercedes parts on the RWD cars needs to be a high priority.
Well with some of the impressive cars coming from Ford and GM, Chrysler had better come up with a handsome vehicles if it hopes to hold onto any market share no matter what the technology is underneath. The 200C would go a long way to convincing the public Chrysler is finished building ugly Mercedes Benz cars. Guess we will just have to wait and see how much of the 200C will live
Don’t have to wait long!
While I liked the idea of the Circuit, I wonder how much mass appeal it would have? I think sticking to a winning formula of a 4-door family sedan like the Prius combined with the electric vehicle technology would sell more units in the end. Boring, yes. But perhaps the safer route to profitability.
I’m hoping that Sergio was only inferring that the 200C couldn’t be built with the concept’s power train. The rest of the car seems feasible enough and the Chrysler brand sure could use a sharp looking upwardly mobile car in the line-up. With the option of a 300+ HP V6 and AWD, it might give the Lincoln MKS, Caddy CTS, and some of the foreign sport luxury sedans a run for their money.
Even if it lost some of the electronic gimmickry in favor of more traditional stuff it would be a nice addition slotting between the Sebring and the 300……or even drop the Sebring in favor of the Avenger or whatever replaces it. That would move Chrysler upscale a bit I think.
Not to get off subject, but the main stream media didn’t say a word (at least that I heard) about Chrysler having 4 top IIHS safety picks. They talked about Subaru and Ford/Volvo cars…..and about Toyota/Lexus/Scion getting none. Can’t they give Chrysler SOME credit? Good visibility can only help at this point.
True. And when they talked about Ford, it seemed like most of them only mentioned Volvo as an afterthought. If they were talking about Ford like they talk about Chrysler, they’d have mentioned Ford’s being sold to the Chinese.
It is difficult to concieve that FIAT would choose NOT to build the 200, especially when they have FIAT vehicles that are near that segment. NOW, having mentioned that, perhaps that is what Sergio meant that they would not market the particular car that HAS been parading around. Not that it would NEVER be produced, or a vehicle in that niche. Certainly, it has garnered MUCH POSITIVE news for Chrysler. Marchionne may also have been aiming his remarks at the electric versions of dream machines that have also been paraded around. It could as well be a spin to deflect any further speculation about the 200 and end the debate, which, could suddenly emerge as a surprise introduction to blow people away. Which, it would. Something that FIAT, and ALLPAR might want to take under consideration. A lot of irons are in Marchionne’s plan for the next 5 years. The guist of it MUST happen soon, although Marchionne has asserted that Chrysler IS NOT operating in the red, but has actually been accumulating operating cash. Figuring all the deep cuts effected by the dog company it may have actually been a positive, for now. I wouldn’t discount the 200 as being deep sixed, at least not yet.
Curtis, considering what’s going on across town at GM, I hope you’re right about the 200C. Did you happen to see the 2011 Buick Regal in Automotive News today? Another very nice looking car to sell beside the newly restyled LaCrosse. You have to hand it to Lutz, he knows what a winner looks like.
Ford has done a great job with the Fusion/Milan and Taurus as well. It wasn’t that long ago that Chryslers were the cars people were praising for beautiful styling. Hope those days return soon. The 200C would be a great start.
Hey Scott. Yes, I have noticed, of course, the new Regal. Buick has always (at least it seems) had something to offer in appearance and style. Even when Oldsmobile managed to get at least one model to market that knocked about everything else into the weeds, Buick was steadfastly there, selling cars, cars, and more cars. Might attribute that to the former Flint workers, and the instillation of the long ago head of Buick, Walter P Chrysler! For sure, the new Ford products are forces to be reckoned with. The twin turbo V-6 engine is a true screamer, in the hot rodders best tradtition. Ford picking Alan Mccauley was the probable best thing that family has ever done since HF II lost his directions in the early 1970s! Bob Lutz will always be that “car guy” that everyone else would like to be. He is seriously behind the Holden Commodore Caprice built in Austraila and doubtless he is responsible for the Police Patrol Vehicle that Chevrolet is bringing in 2010 as a 2011 model. We got a good look, some rides, and inside info about it. Look for an article coming soon here at ALLPAR. Talk about becoming a target! The Dodge Charger Police Package is aimed DIRECTLY in the Caprice sight picture! A good feeling in a way to know you have managed to blow the competition away!