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Let's speak about the quality in our products and more...

675K views 2K replies 124 participants last post by  humdrum 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm seeing most of your faces right now, here he goes again telling us the quality isn't good at all etc.
But I have to be honest and I can't close my eyes, ears, and mouth, long ago I told you that some of our beloved products were having problems, and many of you didn't like my words, you didn't believe me, and it came to the point where I wasn't a reliable source.
But it's time again for me to stand up and speak loud and clear

Our quality isn't good at all, it's a shame for me to drive vehicles year after year having almost the same problems and in some cases we are having more !
It has been frustrating for me to drive the competition and compare to our products, my question is simple

Why can we improve in quality, why our products feel and drive so differnt ?

Why do we have to spend so many hours testing products before the product is available for sale.

We can say that we have some quality issues to take care and nothing happens, they will not change what's wrong in the product, they rather wait until a customer will hate the product.

When are we going to deliver good products, almost trouble free products?

I see and hear comments from consumers all the time saying bad words against our products, it's very very sad for me, but what's going on with managment, they are willing to have a partner and it seems nobody likes us, are they crazy, blind, etc. Or they simply see the naked truth, consumer doesn't like us very much, we have to give them fantastic deals to have a sale, is that a good marketing?
Consumer will buy our products when we will give the high quality products, just look at the Corolla, it keeps selling, it has been a seller, Toyota cares about customer satisfaction, look at the service they provide to customers, it's a different story, why is that? why can't we ?

We are now having in our shoulders those Fiat products, they are not helping us, they are a heavy weight, we are having our own problems, we have a noisy suspension and steering in Cherokees, and what to say about the 9 speed, our fit and finish isn't good, and what to say about the ride of our products, it isn't good at all.

Just hope you will understand my frustration, but it's about time for us to have better products, it was funny to hear from SM that the 200 was a designer fault, C'mon he knew about it, as he knows his many mistakes, he did good to move to SUV's but the move costs us a lot, but not only money, we are still paying a very high price for that.

Plans are on and off, you never know for sure what will be in the future, the 300 has been crazy, but designers are wasting a lot of time in products that will never see the light,.

Marketing at Chrysler continues to be bad, just look at what's happening to the Pacifica, they don't know how to market a product.

I can give you right now a list of product problems, a list of areas which need a change, the truth is, we are falling among consumers, opinions are not good at all, who needs newer products, no more redesigns please, let's fix buggs in the ones we have right now, we are not respecting our customers because, we are making our best effort by not willing to fix a problem in a car that we know very well it's not a customers falult, we know we are having a problem, but we will try not give a warranty, why is that? We tell the customer that he has no more warranty no matter that we are aware of our problem, how many customers left the dealer with a 9 speed problem without a fix, and just because the warranty already expired or because another stupid reason, that's the way we are losing customers.

BRAVO FCA, that's is why......

Sergio is worried about the win in Formula 1, he should quit, who cares if Ferrari wins or not, he didn't care at Nascar and didn't care about Viper. he wants Alfa and Fiat to shine, but we, the Mopar lovers need attention, budget and more, we can't survive without it.

We have to invest in customer satisfaction, we need good dealers, we need to build them right, we need suppliers help, we need managment to listen to what we have to say after we come back from a field test.

It's sad for me to see that the Pentastar is fading, no more Chrysler logos at Auburn Hills, I was proud every morning when I saw the Pentastar and the Chrysler name, we need to improve in many areas or we will soon be history, we can't continue the way we are right now.

Sorry about this long post, but this morning we had more than enough with quality, I can't tell you more for obvious reasons, but try to understand, and please don't start again a fight with me, I'm willing to post, so please let's do it.
 
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#892 ·
2015 Dart Aero just threw its third CEL. 35,200 miles.

I’ll go check it out instead of eating lunch.
That has got to be SO frustrating.
 
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#893 ·
Here's a little story for you all.

Started my car this morning, and it just *barely* started. I knew that I should have just gone to get a new battery on my way to work and got a new battery, but I didn't. So, when I came out after work, the car was dead in the water. Thankfully, when my car was weird last year, I picked up a portable booster that I kept in my car, so I was able to boost the car at work, and then on my way home I picked up a new battery. Tried to swap it in the parking lot, but didn't have the socket in the car for the battery clip bolt. So, I jumped the car again with my booster, and went home. Was thinking to myself "this will only take a couple minutes"

Little did I know it wouldn't...

Turns out, the bolt on the battery clip in the Caliber doesn't have a nut and bolt. Instead, DUMBLER saved $0.0005 and put a piece of sheet metal on the bolt instead of a nut. Which, is in the worst location ever, being blocked by the radiator hoses from the bottom, and by the frame and radiator from the top. Nevermind that there are about half a dozen bolts with nuts holding the battery tray onto the frame. So, that meant that, like just about everything else with my Caliber, the front bumper and the driver's headlight had to come off, as the bolt was just spinning freely, while not coming out:



So, eventually I was able to destroy enough of my battery tray to get the battery clip off and get the old, dead battery out



Here's the carnage, you can see how the piece of sheet metal actually broke in two pieces allowing it to spin around freely when the bolt was turned with a socket. The battery clip is ok, but the other piece of black plastic is a piece of the battery tray that I ended up tearing out to get the battery out (gonna need a new battery tray now):



And finally the new battery in the dang car:






THANK YOU DUMBLER CHRYSLER FOR TAKING A 4 MINUTE JOB AND MAKING IT A 4 HOUR JOB!
Geez. That reminds me: my dealer told me they had to either hoist the car and remove the front wheel, or remove the entire front fascia to....are you sitting down...? Drum roll please...to replace a burnt fog light on my 2012 Challenger SRT 392.
 
#894 ·
That's how the Caliber is for any of the headlight bulbs.

The fog light bulbs are super easy to change though, which is good, as it melts the connectors from time to time. :/
 
#895 ·
I have a customer with 320k miles on her Jeep Patriot. I have 2 Toyota service managers who have bought new Ram Hemis with one trading a 2000 mile Tundra.
That's actually amazing

TBH, it's the little things that make me want to get rid of my Caliber. The engine, for what it is, has been great.
 
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#896 ·
Way back on page 32 and a little later I mentioned about my girlfriend buying a Malibu that had a shimmy. The told her it was the tires. They wouldn't do anything until it had 500 miles on it.

They say they didn't do anything, but when she got it back it was smooth. She now loves it and is very happy with it.

Still wish I could have gotten her into a 3.6L AWD 200S, but it wasn't my money.
 
#900 ·
Just look at the recent news- FCA couldn't even program a light/photo sensor correctly for the dash of a new Compass. It is just unacceptable to me that an issue like that could even get past any type of QA. I guess it's no different then my brand new Dart's remote start not functioning when it's below freezing- cause no one uses a remote start when it's cold. You would think FCA would have a better QA process since the Dart's release and would have learned something by now.
 
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#909 ·
Moderators only edit out violations of the Terms of Service, such as profanities and personal attacks.
 
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#906 · (Edited)
This is a fairly comprehensive, though not entirely complete, repair history of my Stratus.

I've always had problems with cars. Maybe that is because I've generally purchased older cars. I purchased this one with a little over 13K on the odometer and sold it with 237K. Right or wrong, this is what I generally expect from a vehicle. (I also seem to have oddball problems with my cars too). It is for this reason that as long as FCA continues to offer the Lifetime MaxCare I will probably buy a FCA product, though I doubt I will ever buy another brand new car.


TrueDelta | 2004 Dodge Stratus Repair Histories (at https://www.truedelta.com/2004-Dodge-Stratus/problem-histories-79 )


So far I've had 2 problems that I've taken the Charger to the dealership for. One was a TSB for the trunk popping open. The second was a faulty temperature sensor that caused the car to overheat.


Would I like 200,000 trouble free miles? Absolutely. Do I expect that? Absolutely not.
 
#907 ·
Just saw on the "CBS Evening News" yesterday a story about Honda trying to get as many of the faulty Takata airbags out of their older vehicles as they can. They have about 80 mobile crews in vans driving around the country trying to find as many of the owners that they can that haven't brought their cars in for the airbag replacement recall. When they find one, they have the parts and technicians in their vans to replace the airbags right then & there so the owners don't have to trouble themselves with trying to get their vehicles into a dealership. I realize that this isn't all altruistic on the part of Honda (cuts down the potential for lawsuits) but what a clever and innovative way to take care of a recall/servicing headache and earn some goodwill with Honda owners.........and having the story shown on a national news broadcast won't hurt the company's reputation for treating their customers right.

Maybe FCA and it's dealership network can also learn something from this (?).
 
#908 ·
Report shows Takata recall still moving slowly (at http://www.wsbtv.com/news/report-shows-takata-recall-still-moving-slowly/649369240 )
Completion rates vary wildly by automaker, according to a separate document posted by NHTSA. Tesla was best at 78.6 percent, followed by Honda at 64.8 percent. Mercedes-Benz was the worst at 2.3 percent, followed by Karma at 9.9 percent.
Honda has done well in getting them replaced, it seems. But the Takata airbag seemed more problematic in Honda products than in FCA ones.
This is a month older:
https://www.cars.com/articles/fca-honda-try-new-way-to-prompt-takata-recall-repairs-1420697714273/
Honda, which has had more Honda and Acura vehicles under recall and for a longer time, has repaired 11,266,666, or 63.75 percent. FCA has repaired 2,464,137, or 28.07 percent.
 
#912 ·
At 27 october 2017 the FCA (Chrysler in NHTSA documents) repaired airbag were 2.6 million of a total of 8.73 (29.78% completion rate).

The two recalls with priority group 1 are at 43.53% (the big one of more than 4 million airbag) and the second one 55.63% (88k recalled airbag).
To note that the shares are calculated on vehicles not scrapped, exported or stolen (there are also that data in the tables).

For example of the first big group 1 recall (campaign 15V313) the total is 4,054,728, repaired 1,670,740, scrapped 161,297, exported 28,626, stolen 26,615.
Net to be repaired 3,838,190.

Is FCA going to arrive to reach customers the exported vehicles for the recalls?

The other recalls listed have priority group 4.

Takata Recall - Air Bags Repaired / Remaining by Manufacturer (#) | Department of Transportation - Data Portal (at https://data.transportation.gov/Automobiles/Takata-Recall-Air-Bags-Repaired-Remaining-by-Manuf/kdn4-w5z3 )
https://data.transportation.gov/Aut...ir-Bags-Repaired-Remaining-by-Manuf/kdn4-w5z3
Progression of airbag repaired can be found at the link hereafter.
Takata Recall - Affected Population / Repaired Air Bags Over Time | Department of Transportation - Data Portal (at https://data.transportation.gov/Automobiles/Takata-Recall-Affected-Population-Repaired-Air-Bag/346i-nxtd )
For example at 16 december 2016 were 1,425,235, at 27 october 2017 2,602,733.
 
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#914 ·
People claim to care about safety when purchasing a vehicle but it doesn't seem like too many are worried about their airbags.
Your seat belt still does more for you (as long as you wear it).
The airbag issue doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle starting in the morning, running down the road and stopping.
Those are the day to day things (reliability and dependability) that people are really concerned with.
Since collisions aren't a day to day event many appear not to be losing any sleep over the airbag recall.
 
#915 ·
People claim to care about safety when purchasing a vehicle but it doesn't seem like too many are worried about their airbags.
Your seat belt still does more for you (as long as you wear it).
The airbag issue doesn't have anything to do with the vehicle starting in the morning, running down the road and stopping.
Those are the day to day things (reliability and dependability) that people are really concerned with.
Since collisions aren't a day to day event many appear not to be losing any sleep over the airbag recall.
But there were those of us that cared. I found it easier to get rid of vehicles with "defective" airbags than to get them replaced. There have been at some people trying and being denied the parts. Maybe I'm extra sensitive since I was protected with an airbag in a fairly serious crash - with no injury but a slight cut on my lip. Sometimes, no matter how carefully you drive, you can end up in a situation where an accident is unavoidable.
I wasn't as worried in a Chrysler vehicles with the "defective" as if I'd had a Honda. The Chrysler ones didn't seen to shoot shrapnel at the driver or passenger.
 
#916 ·
I got airbags replaced on one vehicle by trading it in,Lol. There were no parts available at the time I owned it. I just kept getting notices. Another vehicle I also own has both driver & passenger bags recalled and have been no parts available for about a year when it was first issued. I think they’re available now, but unless FCA wants to replace them (ala Honda style), I’m not taking it to the dealership.
 
#917 ·
I've skimmed over this thread, and my observation is that a) Chrysler quality consistency is lacking and b) dealership support is inconsistent as well.

(Thank you, Captain Obvious)

I am not a 'Mopar guy' per se'- I will drive what I like. I've owned cars made by each of the 'Big 3' as well as German and Japanese. Most are fairly high mileage, there was a period where everything I owned was over 200,000 miles.

So- I just bought an 09 Charger R/T. The carfax shows incomplete recalls for the timing chain and airbags. A quick call to my local dealer in Roseville MI and I have an appointment for service. They provide me with a new V6 Charger for a loaner.

So- here's my impression- The 09 R/T is not fully optioned, but has some nice features. Heated seats- I like the bun warmers. The V6 Charger- cloth seats, non heated. Base (I assume) touchscreen radio/climate control. The screen is smallish, gives a feeling of cutting corners- even compared to the non-touch screen in my 09.

The 09's radio- has uconnect bttons, but no uconnect. Really? Bluetooth is going to add that much to the cost of the vehicle? My 08 HHR had bluetooth. It's really should be considered a safety feature to have hands free.
The 09's TPMS- lights up a low tire light, but gives you no indication of which tire is low. Again, the 08 HHR had that feature.

When the competitor's cars that are a lower, cheaper model have more features than the more upscale offerings from Chrysler, it conveys a feeling of cheapness.

Add to that, if you have a dealer that is subpar, it makes the entire experience awful.

I traded in a 2010 Camaro RS on the 09 Charger- because the V6 had a rod knock. A relatively powerful V6 in a sporty car should be able to handle occasional spirited driving. A rod knock at 110,000 miles is unacceptable today, and has soured me on V6 engines from anybody- hence the Charger. The 5.7 Hemi seems to be a solid motor, and with 88,000 miles should have plenty of life left.
Bringing me back to the recall. I get my Charger back today, there was no attempt to upsell service. I will find out if the airbag recall was completed when I pick up the car- forgot to ask when they called. It is on the work order.

In a nutshell- Cars are complex systems, and things go wrong. Most adults understand that. It's when companies deny problems, dealers lie to or try to upsell services to customers, problems that should have been solved are swept under the rug- that's when customers leave. Chrysler has historically provided value for the money- generally offering features that match more expensive offerings from competitors. But when you offer less value, less quality, and less service, you will end up with less buyers.
 
#920 ·
Chrysler has historically provided value for the money- generally offering features that match more expensive offerings from competitors. But when you offer less value, less quality, and less service, you will end up with less buyers.
I need to borrow this quote.
 
#923 ·
See, this makes little sense considering economy of scale. A feature like this across the full line will cost less that have 2 or 3 different systems. GM learned this- to the point of having the same exact steering wheel in a $14k Cruze and a $80K Corvette- The Corvette guys did notice....

To me, Chrysler has always been the company that made the niche models like the Demon, Viper, Prowler, etc- stuff that other companies didn't have the efficient management to do. Management seems to be stifling the creativity, not encouraging it.
 
#924 ·
New co-worker has a Fiat 500.
Fiat dealerships are apparently as bad as the worst CDRJ dealers.
Reflashed the computer to get rid of a code that was popping up.
Didn't replace the part.
Didn't test drive the vehicle to make sure the code was gone.
Code came back as they were driving it home.
Dealer says they followed the guidelines for warranty work.
They are now getting the part to replace it.
 
#931 ·
See, this makes little sense considering economy of scale. A feature like this across the full line will cost less that have 2 or 3 different systems. GM learned this- to the point of having the same exact steering wheel in a $14k Cruze and a $80K Corvette- The Corvette guys did notice....

To me, Chrysler has always been the company that made the niche models like the Demon, Viper, Prowler, etc- stuff that other companies didn't have the efficient management to do. Management seems to be stifling the creativity, not encouraging it.

I recall when the 1976 Corvette was equipped with the same steering wheel as the Vega. I do not recall when a $80K Corvette had the same steering wheel as a $14K Cruze. Can you provide more details? Thank you.
 
#933 ·
Ferrari MyGig



Chrysler 200 MyGig

 
#940 ·
Something happened on my drive home from the NYE gathering with my family the other night that brought this thread to mind.

I tapped the 'cool' button for the driver's side cup holder and it didn't function. Normally when you depress the button, either to heat or cool, there is a click and the light ring lights up either red or blue. Nothing happened. No click. No light. The passenger side worked just fine.

As I'm cruising down the highway I'm thinking that the car is 5 years old, it has about 67,000 miles on it, this isn't a critical component, it is stupid that this isn't working because despite the age and mileage I feel this kind of failure is ridiculous, and finally I'm really glad that I have the lifetime warranty on the car because this is going to bug the heck out of me and will cost a stupid amount of money to fix.

At some point we pulled into a rest area for a short break and when we left I hit the button again. It worked. And it has worked every time I've gotten in the car since then. Why? I don't know. Some stupid computer glitch that was fixed when the car was restarted I guess.

And that actually bugs me more than when the temperature sensor failed on the car in 2016 and it forced me to spend the night in Joliet, Illinois. When that happened I thought, "Eh, things happen. Parts fail." When this happened I thought, "Are you kidding me? This stupid switch failed? No wonder people think Chrysler is junk." Don't ask why I felt that way, I can't explain it.
 
#941 ·
Something happened on my drive home from the NYE gathering with my family the other night that brought this thread to mind.

I tapped the 'cool' button for the driver's side cup holder and it didn't function. Normally when you depress the button, either to heat or cool, there is a click and the light ring lights up either red or blue. Nothing happened. No click. No light. The passenger side worked just fine.

As I'm cruising down the highway I'm thinking that the car is 5 years old, it has about 67,000 miles on it, this isn't a critical component, it is stupid that this isn't working because despite the age and mileage I feel this kind of failure is ridiculous, and finally I'm really glad that I have the lifetime warranty on the car because this is going to bug the heck out of me and will cost a stupid amount of money to fix.

At some point we pulled into a rest area for a short break and when we left I hit the button again. It worked. And it has worked every time I've gotten in the car since then. Why? I don't know. Some stupid computer glitch that was fixed when the car was restarted I guess.

And that actually bugs me more than when the temperature sensor failed on the car in 2016 and it forced me to spend the night in Joliet, Illinois. When that happened I thought, "Eh, things happen. Parts fail." When this happened I thought, "Are you kidding me? This stupid switch failed? No wonder people think Chrysler is junk." Don't ask why I felt that way, I can't explain it.
It has to do with annoyance, inconvenience and preconceived expectations.
 
#944 ·
I remember when you had the flat in your Challenger, and I can see where it would be an issue.

I had a friend who was looking at a Cruze, I think it was and it had no spare so she ended up buying the next larger car that did have a spare. She said she wouldn't buy a car without a spare. I haven't had to use one in years, but an old girlfriend who has my old Stratus right now had to put the donut on because a rim was cracked. I had the car for 11 years and 225K miles and never once put it on. But I was glad to know it was there.

It seems the the Subaru ad campaign really works the perception angle.
 
#945 ·
Yes. Subaru is to some extent the "master of deception". I mean that tongue-and-cheek...well sort of...

Subaru has come up with a brilliant campaign that connects with people emotionally like no one has been able to in the auto category in generations.

But when I talk to Subaru owners, after they are done telling me how much they LOVE their Subaru, they share how disappointed they are with the fuel economy, with the transmission (Subaru seems to always offer one gear less than the competition); with the hard plastics, with the lack of features for the price, with the AC....etc.

At the very least, Subaru quality appears to be consistent over time, and across its product lineup.
 
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