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1970 Plymouth 4-Door Barracuda E-Body

Discussion in 'Other classic cars' started by Joe Dart, Feb 13, 2016.

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  1. Joe Dart

    Joe Dart Member

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    I reached out to people who said Larry Sanderson started working at the proving grounds in 1976 as a driver/mechanic. Six years after the 4-door Barracuda was allegedly seen on the property. Nobody has heard of the "other" Larry Saunders claimed in the story.

    Proving grounds stories are plentiful. The "burial ground" sand pits was confirmed as true. Workers crushed cars with bulldozers and buried them on site. These were mainly impact test cars, but nobody really knows what's in there.

    I wasn't there.

    In the early 1980's EPA had forced Chrysler to remove all junk from the junkyards and burial pits. Scrappers also came into Highland Park engineering to remove junk on a continual basis.

    It wouldn't make sense to transport bodies to Chelsea, Michigan to destroy them especially with Detroit scrap yards being so plentiful.
     
  2. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Valued Member
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    In the back of Highland Park behind the Dyno buildings was an area where body-in-whites were stored along with all sorts of used up test vehicles and bodies and various car parts. These parts would eventually get scrapped after their use was done.
     
    Joe Dart likes this.
  3. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    4 doors vs 2 doors ? In 1970 the A bodies, B bodies, C bodies, and Y bodies all had 2 and 4 door models. Now we have an E body 4 door.
     
  4. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    Like I said before, with the 4 door Thunderbirds and consideration of a 4 door Mustang and others, no doubt the idea of 4 door e bodies crossed someone's mind (especially since Chrysler liked to let Ford and GM lead the way many times). It's just a debate if it made it to a physical form.

    After all at least one Chrysler exec was expecting the Road Runner to spawn 4 door sedans and station wagons.
     
  5. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    I enjoy reading about some of the things that happened back then. A very interesting story about the first Valiants is on the home page. ----- Flies with streamers. Doesn't get much better than that.
     
  6. Joe Dart

    Joe Dart Member

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    Eureka!? Not. The cars you referenced have been photographed....and built.

    My response is to repose a previous post.

    Please consider this.

    Why would a major automotive company give design approval to create something beyond a conceptual sketch.....without evidence?

    Financial backing first requires design approval

    Then product planning approval

    Experimental body engineering approval

    Design studio approvals.

    Clay model the design.

    Fabricate design in the experimental metal shop.

    Design a package drawing for all interior specifications.

    Design and document all exterior dimensions and ornamentation.

    Approved exterior ornamentation and design for concept

    Paint concept in experimental paint shop.

    Design and manufacture experimental trim

    So all of this effort and still nobody knows anything?
     
  7. Joe Dart

    Joe Dart Member

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    First off... don't believe everything you read.

    Secondly, what the heck did you get from this story?

    Looking for answers.
     
    #67 Joe Dart, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  8. chargerjy9

    chargerjy9 New Member

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    You are right. I had breakfast yesterday with those who worked in Design at that time. These folks have intimate knowledge of the workings of Design Office back then. What you laid out here is pretty much the process. To a man they said there would be a paper trail. Regardless of what Mr Walden says, based on recollections from a Guy at the proving ground and a guy walking a mail route, they could not know the inner workings of Design Office.
     
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  9. Joe Dart

    Joe Dart Member

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    The sad part is, this car as built could have stood on its own merit - without such a ridiculous backstory.
     
  10. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    First let me say that while I appreciate your obsession with my project, I also find it a bit peculiar. You have not only "followed" me but have harassed me because I choose to believe what I want to believe as it relates to the Individuals I have talked to. I'm a very nice person until it's no longer time to be nice. I suggest you mind your own business and stop your continued stalking of me and my project. Chrysler is fully aware of what I have done. The work has been completely and openly disclosed from the very beginning.

    For the record, I have never changed my belief that there was a Concept that was actually made by Chrysler. I know they never built an Assembly Line version but I believe the idea of a 4 Door Barracuda was out there and it was even shared with other Automotive sources. That is a fact that cannot be refuted.


    [​IMG]
     
    #70 David Walden, Jun 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  11. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    The only "delusional" one is you Tom. Why do you continue to ignore the FACTS on the topic? Many of the "Designers" did not know about some of the cars that were constructed. Your list of requirements on how concepts were built is nothing more than biased, personal nonsense. The money used to build Concept Cars was "hidden" on many occasions. Just like Pete Estes said in this article, they kept many things disclosed and secret. Here are the FACTS. They are listed in the yellow highlighted blocks.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    That's correct! Many didn't know "anything" about the Concepts being built.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    Do you need to see this again? "Mr. Walden" didn't say it! Pete Estes said it. He ran the Pontiac Motors Division. His recollection is no different than any of the other vehicle Manufacturers of that era. Do you think he knew the "inner workings" of how Concept Cars were manufactured or are you going to correct him as well?

    For the record, I proved you guys WRONG when you claimed Ford & GM were not making 4 Door Concepts of their 2 Door Sports Cars. I proved you wrong when you claimed that Concept Cars had a transparent protocol for how they were made and they were ALL documented with a "paper trail". They were not! Many were kept secret from the top Brass and even built off site by Independent Coachwork Firms. I have provided third party, Independent Automotive publications that talked about the 4 Door Barracuda being offered as a Chrysler vehicle. To this point, the only thing you guys have provided is your typed opinions. Not a single spec of evidence that supports your words. To the contrary, I have proved many of your unsubstantiated opinions to be WRONG.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  14. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    So why don't you explain how this "One of None" 4 Door Barracuda is going to affect or drop the value of the "real" cars that were built by the Factory? Please provide just ONE example that substantiates your idiotic claim.
     
  15. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    Here's that information linked below. The largest Auto Magazine in the Country will soon be publishing their Article on the Car as well. We hope to get the "Cover" on that one too. The ball is rolling and won't be stopped by the naysayers.

    Four-Links – four-door ‘Cuda, flathead sidecar | Hemmings Daily

    http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/four-door-plymouth-barracuda-restorer-builds-concept-car-never/

    ECS Automotive Concepts Unveils 1970 Plymouth Barracuda 4-Door Concept Car (at http://moparconnectionmagazine.com/ecs-automotive-concepts-unveils-1970-plymouth-barracuda-4-door-concept-car/ )
     
  16. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    One last point to make here. If you'll notice, every story on this Project does exactly what you just described. The "backstory" is only briefly mentioned and 99% of the following information is centered around the build. It you weren't so determined to lie and slander the context of what has been done, you would recognize that fact.

    For the record, the first story that came out in MCG was not done with any of my involvement. It was written by the Magazine along with information provided by Roger Johnson. Again, below are a couple of links that were written about the Project. Anyone with a tiny bit of common sense can see that the "backstory" is minimal and almost inconsequential in the commentary. The story IS centered and "stands" on the build of the Car and what it took to create it.

    http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/four-door-plymouth-barracuda-restorer-builds-concept-car-never/

    ECS Automotive Concepts Unveils 1970 Plymouth Barracuda 4-Door Concept Car (at http://moparconnectionmagazine.com/ecs-automotive-concepts-unveils-1970-plymouth-barracuda-4-door-concept-car/ )
     
  17. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    David, thanks for the pics of the 883. While it was a cool looking car, it would have stolen some Corvette sales.
     
  18. chargerjy9

    chargerjy9 New Member

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    You proved nothing with these quotes. This is not Chrysler. You are surmising that because GM says so, then, that applies to everyone else. That is not proof. Just conjecture.
    "For the record, I have never changed my belief that there was a Concept that was actually made by Chrysler. I know they never built an Assembly Line version but I believe the idea of a 4 Door Barracuda was out there and it was even shared with other Automotive sources. That is a fact that cannot be refuted." Cannot be refuted?, Cannot be proved is more like it and there is no fact there.
     
  19. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    And you've proved nothing with your typed words. Why don't you post something other than your opinion? How about posting something like this? Was this talking about a "GM" product?

    [​IMG]
     
  20. David Walden

    David Walden New Member

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    This article is absolute PROOF that Chrysler conveyed the idea of a possible 4 Door Barracuda. The Manufacturer (Chrysler) would send their new Car bulletins to these Automotive Publications and they would advertise the New Vehicles that were coming out in the upcoming year. This article was printed in October of 1969. It's third party, independent information that conveys a 4 Door version of the Barracuda. Accept it or not, it's PROOF of a 4 Door Barracuda that was (at one time) a possibility for the new year.

    [​IMG]
     
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