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2.7 Engine clatter

Discussion in 'LH: Large Cars, 1993-2004' started by movinyou, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    Hello all. Went through everything involved with changing the water pump. 1st was bad and had to go back in to replace it. Got it back together the second time and sounds like a diesel when running. It sounds that bad. Double checked the timing twice before reassembly. It was sounding great the 1st time around. Any ideas would be appreciated. And, the only code it's showing is 113 and that's because the air intake is still off.
     
  2. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    Locate the noise source as best you can. Is it under the front timing cover? Were you able to collapse the chain tensioner so it would pump up again? If these are too tight, they will make a racket.
     
  3. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    I actually bought a new tensioner when I put it back together. After replacing the defective pump, I found quite a bit of water contamination in the oil. I changed it of course and made the last qt Rislone. Quieted some. May have to change the oil again to make sure all the contamination is cleaned out. Just out of curiosity, if we are a cog or 2 off on the timing, would it clatter at all? Thanks for your input
     
  4. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The timing chain must be 'dead nuts' on the marks.
    You may need to change the oil a couple of more times if moisture is still present in the oil. Watch this closely as these engines aren't very forgiving of contaminated oil.
    Water will sit on top of oil Allow the engine to warm to try and evaporate any moisture left over in the crankcase.
     
  5. Tomguy

    Tomguy Well-Known Member

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    Other way around! Water (or coolant) will sink & be @ the bottom of the crankcase. Oil floats on water.

    If I saw water contamination in the oil, I'd probably not have taken a chance myself because of that. Water pumps through the system before oil, since the pickup is on the bottom of the pan. Any water contamination would have recirculated until it became like mayonnaise in oil passages, blocking them. Especially ones that go to the mains.
     
  6. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    You are correct. Oil on water. I was trying to visualize it.
    I have found engines that weren't caught soon enough and the bearings had all pitted.
     
  7. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    Thank all. I'm prayin' that a couple of oil changes will bring it back. It's a nice car w/only 146,000 on it. I'll keep you all posted
     
  8. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    Hello all. Here we are a couple of oil changes later and still have the clatter. My question is, will it do any(more) damage if I let it warm up completely? At this point I've only let run a couple of minutes to hear if the oil changes have done any good. My father in law seems to think letting it warm up will help evaporate any moisture left in the engine. What do you all think?
     
  9. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    By the way, is the 2.7 sensitive to synthetics ? here of late, I have been running a semi-synthetic 10w30.
     
  10. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    I've run everything from 5-20 to #40 in 2.7's and don't think they are oil sensitive at all.

    I would encourage you to triple check everything related to the chains, sprockets, tensioner etc..

    I believe you stated the nose started with the 2nd water pump installation, that's a big clue.

    The chain off a cog or 2 by its self wouldn't make noise, but pistons and valve crashing could.

    I'm not sure what year you are working on but early Engines had a separator plate for a W.P. gasket.

    Any possibility it was left inside and the 2nd water pump was the later design that must not retain the plate.

    Thanks
    Randy

    First design with separator plate:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    It's an 03 Concorde. I almost missed that plate the 1st time around. After the 1st new water pump leaked, it heavily contaminated the oil. That's what I've battled ever since
     
  12. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    So you are using the up dated water pump with matching gasket and not the plate .

    Thanks
    Randy
    Sound anything like this??

     
  13. blackstratus

    blackstratus Well-Known Member

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    I've been running Mobil 1 5w30 in my 2.7 for 13 years. No noise from that engine with this oil. Originally it was 5w30 conventional until I switched at 48,000 miles. No noise either with that, just wanted the extra protection because of the possible sludge issue with the 2.7 of which I will say to this day have not seen on mine. I've changed the oil every 3000 miles though its entire life.
     
  14. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    The noise is very similar. Also, the pump I bought(from napa) came with that type of gasket. I cannot tell for sure if it is in fact the lifters or from behind the front cover. Guess I'll need a stethoscope. Stay tuned.
     
  15. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    The main thing is to check your oil regularity and watch for sludge both on the dipstick and PCV hoses, oil cap etc. Sudden changes are the clue.

    Contrary to popular belief these Engines aren't oil sensitive, but subject to failing internal water pumps and water pump gaskets.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  16. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    I will tell you all that now that I've scoped it the sound is all lifters. Hey folks, can I heat this thing up to operating temp with the lifters rattling like they are to "cook" the moisture out of it? Somebody please help!
     
  17. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    IF its only lifters you should be good.

    The lifters (lash adjusters) have a bleed hole to assist in bleeding aeration, as do the heads.

    IF you suspect moisture in the oil, warm it up, the sooner the better.

    The 2.7 is small in displacement, but huge in total crank case capacity, so there is lots of area for moisture to accumulate.

    It takes hot oil and a good PCV system to "cook" and inhale the condensation out.

    Keep a close eye on the coolant level to confirm no more coolant is entering the crankcase.

    Keep a close eye on the oil for signs of contamination.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
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  18. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    Thanks. At least I now have an idea that my idea isn't so far fetched and I won't destroy the engine
     
  19. movinyou

    movinyou Active Member

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    I've tried several times to get this engine to shut up. I just have a "gut" feeling that I missed something the second time around and I need to take a peek. Here's hoping !
     
  20. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    Have you triple checked the chain tensioner??

    Is oil pressure still good?? Some oil pickups get clogged.

    My Dads well maintained 2.7 pickup was clogged after a water pump gasket failure.

    Thanks
    Randy
     

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