Hello, Allpar Forums member or visitor! If you were a member, you would not see this ad!

Register or log in at the top right of the page...

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

200 and Dart

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by unverferth, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes:
    9,088
    That's a very good point!

    We keep hearing how unprofitable it was to field Dart and 200. I'll bet it was, especially if they had to start from scratch!
     
    #41 aldo90731, Oct 5, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
    JavelinAMX and duster92 like this.
  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,636
    Likes:
    10,867
    Sorry - that does not change the fact that FCA did not properly research (or understand) the market before introducing the DDCT here.
    You can drive a manual transmission in heavy, creeping traffic if you are good with a clutch (as in engaging and disengaging, not slipping it). You have to be able to creep forward in American city traffic. The DDCT couldn't handle heavy traffic as well as a skilled manual transmission operator. So it was a failure.
     
  3. somber

    somber 370,000 miles
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,044
    Likes:
    1,360
    I always thought it was a requirements error. I imagine that the engineering team would have designed things differently, had active creep been in the list of requirements.
     
    GasAxe likes this.
  4. TripleT

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    5,915
    Likes:
    6,395

    None of it is really relevant as the class ended up being a loser across the board, FCA was the only company with local production that was capacity limited and could afford to bench a losing model. If the other manufacturer could have snapped a finger and change there capacity mix they would have also.
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  5. Citation84

    Citation84 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    756
    Likes:
    384
    The 2.4 in the Breeze was not the same engine as the 2.4 in the Sebring/200/Compass.
     
    Ian likes this.
  6. nastijeep

    nastijeep Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Likes:
    78
    seemed similar, as I'd had earlier breeze with 2.0: a dog vs the 2.4! the 2.4 is now called a "world engine"; what is the difference? I did notice the 200 & Compass at the same general cruising RPM got much different gas mileage: 200 - 28 mpg; compass -23.5 to 26 mpg. again, tho, the sebring got up to 32 mpg one tank, when gas in Midwest was $4.30/gal. lotsa conserving required 2 get this, but 30+ was typical without being aggressive. not sure why 200 didn't do as well.
     
  7. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    29,868
    Likes:
    3,241
    My wife's 2012 Chrysler 200 with 2.4L and 6-speed auto is rated for 31 mpg highway, and we get 31-33 mpg on highway trips. Reportedly the 9-speed auto, which was rated for 36 mpg, also got fairly close to its EPA rating.
     
  8. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,636
    Likes:
    10,867
    There are two 2.4 engines. First one is based on the Neon 2.0, common in the PT Cruiser and used in the Stratus and Sebring though model year 2006. Then in 2007 the GEMA (or World Gas Engine) came to Starus/Sebring.
     
  9. page2171

    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    557
    Likes:
    631
    I wonder how things would have worked out if instead of making the Dart a sedan (or alongside the Dart sedan) they would have made a next-gen Caliber. The crossover like looks of the Caliber mixed with the more refined styling of the Dart and higher quality materials of the Dart I think would have made an interesting combo, and probably something I would have been interested in.
     
  10. Ernesto

    Ernesto Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    54
    Likes:
    91
    From Waco to Little Rock and back my 2015 200 Limited turned in a 36 mile per gallon using both the car computer and pencil and paper. Last 2 trips from Waco to Calera, Oklahoma to visit the Choctaw brothers recorded 36 mpg. These trips are highway only.

    2 trips to Fort Collins, Colorado and back with a little town driving in Fort Collins and Lawton, Oklahoma turned in 33 mpg. And this mid size with it's 2.4 will actually get out of it's own way. At 75 mph the engine rpm is about 1200. My like new 2007 PT Cruiser is about 2800 rpm at 75 mph and might squeeze out 24 mpg. The PT has the edge in getting in and out.

    My spouse loves the PT. I love the 200.
     
  11. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes:
    2,753
    At 75 mph the aerodynamic drag starts to be not neglegible, the PT Cruiser has a Cx (or Cd as You want to call it) that should be 0.38/0.39, the one of Chrysler 200 is 0.27.
    I don't know the frontal area that is the other parameter that has to be taken into account.
     
    JavelinAMX and Ernesto like this.
  12. wolfsblood07

    wolfsblood07 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2017
    Messages:
    122
    Likes:
    98
    Without the 200 and Dart, FCA has 2 big holes in their lineup. Both were great looking cars.
     
    Ian and Ernesto like this.
  13. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2002
    Messages:
    29,868
    Likes:
    3,241
    Caliber was and is fugly. I think sales would have been far worse.
     
    nastijeep, somber and Ernesto like this.
  14. page2171

    Level 2 Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    557
    Likes:
    631
    I agree that the Caliber was and is fugly. I'm thinking something similar in concept to the Caliber, but with the better looks of the Dart.
     
  15. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2010
    Messages:
    882
    Likes:
    288
    Forget about looks....The old Dodge Spirit is a better car then the 200.
     
    vipergg likes this.
  16. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes:
    1,872
    .

    We rented a Dodge Stratus on a couple occasions around 2005-2006, with that 2.4L. It was a surprisingly strong combination. One time going out of San Francisco airport North through the 'Woods it was very stout in the twisties there. And also noteworthy was the fact that with it being near passenger and cargo weight capacity, it handled the otherwise challenging hilly streets within San Francisco city limits very, very well. We were concerned about that beforehand, but for no reason.

    That architecture with that engine proved to be a very nice package, indeed.

    .
     
    Bob Lincoln, somber and wolfsblood07 like this.
  17. richmond

    richmond Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    102
    Likes:
    173
    A big problem is that a lot of people have their eyes firmly fixed on the rear-view mirror while attempting to reverse their sedan into the past.

    If you think that the future is steel, petrol cars and coal, you might miss out on the real future that will include robots, electric vehicles and solar panels.
     
    cdjr77 likes this.
  18. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    31,636
    Likes:
    10,867
    And if you get too far ahead of the curve with "future vehicles" you miss sales today. Electric vehicles (for all their promise) still don't sell without strong incentives or mandates.
     
  19. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes:
    9,088
    That's why automakers need to have their hands and feet all in different puddles: no one can tell in which direction future winds will blow.

    HEV, PHEV and EV technologies are becoming mainstream at an increasing rate, and must-haves for any automaker to stay competitive. The same goes of being able to build efficient cars with broad market appeal.

    For all the diversification Fiat has brought to FCA with diesels and smaller engines, it has held it back in the development of alternative energy powertrains, Pacifica PHEV notwithstanding, and, in North America, in the development of competitive cars.

    I have friends in Canada clamoring for Pacifica PHEV, but it's not yet available. I doubt they will wait until FCA decides to make up its mind.
     
    #59 aldo90731, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    JavelinAMX likes this.
  20. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Likes:
    2,753
    And how said You that FCA is not developing since many years "electrified" powertrains?
     

Share This Page

Loading...