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200 and Dart

Discussion in 'Rumors and Speculation' started by unverferth, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. aldo90731

    Level III Supporter

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    Are you referring to 500e...? That thing is a toy. Just as the entire Fiat lineup doesn't qualify FCA as building competitive cars either. In North America, at least.
     
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  2. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    And it actually was comfortable for all five people.
     
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  3. cgseller@gmail.com

    cgseller@gmail.com Well-Known Member

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    Profit Margins in relation to costs of goods sold. The vehicles were actually great, however, the opportunity cost to keep manufacturing them was too high. This is why a partner was sought but nothing was reached.

    I best to think that there is a secret effort to continue to /maintain/ a small car platform that is US compliant for when the market needs it.
     
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  4. aldo90731

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    You correctly say the manufacturing opportunity cost.

    There is also a marketing opportunity cost: without sedans, FCA in effect cut off its "line of communication" to a portion of the large sea of sedan owners out there shopping for their next vehicle. In doing so, FCA constrained its own market coverage, impacting its ability to sustain sales, even of CUVs. Which is what we are seeing.

    Getting in-and-out of the market "as the market needs it" may work neatly from a manufacturing perspective but, unfortunately, it doesn't work from a consumer perspective. Consumers buy when they are ready; not when the automaker is ready. Also, sedan buyers need the familiarity and the assurance of a long-standing, proven market presence to reward that automaker with their trust and with their purchase.

    Getting in-and-out of the market smells a lot like opportunism. It doesn't give these consumers the reassurance that they seek: that the automaker will have their backs covered through thick-and-thin. Dart and 200 sales were already hindered by this lack of familiarity and trust.

    Those who stayed away from Dart and 200 only saw their suspicions proved the day Sergio pulled the plug on them; those who bought one got penalized. Next time FCA decides to re-enter the sedan market, it will need to overcome an even larger degree of skepticism. Making it incrementally more expensive for FCA to convert those sedan shoppers into buyers.
     
    #64 aldo90731, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  5. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    @aldo90731 With the current timeframes with FCA taking so long to bring products to market, would it be reasonable to say that Jeep has taken over the marketing communication for "Chrysler Co." and that any new mid/small sedan from FCA will be niche (RWD Dodge) and won't be on the radar for most consumers anyway when it/they debut 5-10 years down the road?
     
  6. aldo90731

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    Yes. If Jeep has taken over Chrysler Co's communication is primarily because it has more to talk about; other brands are not getting products to the same extent.

    But there's another dynamic at play: Chrysler is now advertising Pacifica; Jeep is advertising Compass; Jeep will be advertising Wrangler, and after that Ram will be advertising 1500. Meanwhile, Dodge is doing what it can advertising Charger, Durango, Challenger and Journey, and Fiat is trying to advertise, however it can, Spider, 500X and 500.

    The end result is approximately one billion dollars going into advertising with no coherent theme, no unifying look and feel, and no underlying value proposition. Advertising campaigns without the cover of a brand halo cannot piggyback on each other to capture their fair share of consumers' minds, and thus struggle to gather momentum.

    A balkanized advertising strategy surrenders any benefits from branding, and results in one of the most inefficient --and ineffectual-- ways to advertise.

    At this point, Jeep offers the most coherent positioning and value proposition. So, in addition to getting more advertising, Jeep messages are more likely to cut through better as well. But that doesn't add much value in selling Dodges, Chryslers and Fiats, beyond generating overflow dealer traffic.
     
    #66 aldo90731, Oct 11, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
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  7. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    A friend and I were talking about how random some TV ads (for the same company's products) could seem and how others were unifying no matter which of the company's products were advertised.
    Honda unifies all its vehicle ads with those "tones" at the beginning.
    Toyota unifies all its vehicle ads with the same ending.
    FCA doesn't seem to unify across any of their brands, let alone across the company.
     
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  8. GasAxe

    GasAxe Well-Known Member

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    Heck, the F side, rightly or wrongly, has segregated itself from the C brands with separate dealerships and what not. We won't even touch the relationships between the Dodge/Chrysler and Alfa/Maserati. Maybe when the plethora of new vehicles spawn in 2021, FCA will throw out some "family" advertising.
     
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  9. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Does Lexus also have the same ending as toyota? What about Acura and Honda?
     
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  10. aldo90731

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    Toyota has a full product line; Honda has close to a full product line.

    None of FCA individual brands comes even close to a full product line.
     
  11. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    This is what happens when you have a company which is a collection of mostly niche brands......one of them SO niche (Lancia).....that only one model is available in only one country!

    You could try the approach of the old American Motors....and try selling everything under one corporate name-plate.....BUT it just would not be practical......not to mention the money it would cost and the confusion it would create among a consumer population that seems to get too easily confused as it is.

    People would be scratching their heads wondering: "What the @#&% is an FCA"?
     
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  12. aldo90731

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    Or you can pick one of your existing brands, the one with a past being a full line brand and the best chance in the future, and make Jeep the niche brand.
     
    #72 aldo90731, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  13. JeepandRams

    JeepandRams Active Member

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    I like FCA’s branding strategy. The brands are more pure. It goes better with making our brands more aspirational and less appliance like. We have an idea what Jeep or Dodge or Ram or Alfa stand for. What does Ford, Nissan, Hyundai or Chevy stand for?
     
  14. page2171

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    I agree. Now, if someone could figure out an image for Chrysler....
     
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  15. 77 Monaco Brougham

    77 Monaco Brougham Active Member

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    I would agree. There definitely seems to be more focus to the brands, which is essential in today's global car market.

    Unfortunately......it's a difficult strategy to follow-through with when there doesn't seem to be the resources available to feed more than one brand (maybe two) at a time.

    Nevertheless......I still think it's the right way to go!
     
  16. AmbassadorSST

    AmbassadorSST New Member

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    I think they have an idea...FCA wants Chrysler to be the All Electric/Green brand in the future...if the brand doesn't get sold at another entity before that idea gets realized that is. :p

    Going back to the topic of the Dart/200...
    I love my 16 Dart GT. It is loaded to the max and has pretty good handling. The thing I wish was better was the gas mileage. My 2012 Mitsu/Diamler-Chrysler developed 200 got better gas mileage than my 2016 Dart does. And that car was bigger than my Dart. Heck even my 2013 V-6 Charger gets better gas mileage than my Dart does. :confused:
    I could see sacrificing gas mileage if my Dart was an 300 hp high-po SRT, but it's not. FCA needs to develop a global 4 cylinder engine that gets great gas mileage.

    The initial rollout of manuals, initial quality issues, and the gas mileage killed the Dart.
    Design flaws and the quirky 9 speed tranny killed the 200.
     
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  17. Ernesto

    Ernesto Active Member

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    Wouldn't the Dart's planned 9-speed had significantly increased gas mileage, at least for highway? My heavier 2015 200 Limited consistently get's 36 mpg highway and 24-26 city. Granted. The 200 has a lower drag coefficient.

    A highway gas mileage check comes Sunday, when I visit the Nations and the Choctaw brothers. Cold front is due Sunday. My best highway mileage comes with Colorado visits at higher altitudes.
     
  18. tlc

    tlc Active Member

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    The city mileage on my Dart isn't the best 22-23. But the highway mileage is very good. 38-40. That is with the 2.4 and manual.
     
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  19. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    .

    One answer would be :

    They stand for literally hundreds of thousands of units sold for nearly every model each of those companies offer. There also seems to be commitment to each model in their portfolio ( including both 'evolutionary' and 'revolutionary {new}' models ). Hyundai for an historically shorter period, but the rest are long-term in the business - yet each of these named ( including Hyundai ) are rather solid performers with both returning and conquest customers.

    They're on pretty good ground.

    .
     
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  20. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    With the shoe on the other foot, perhaps the powers that be ought not reject some of the candidate images which have been offered as reasonable directions for the brand.

    .
     

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