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2010 T&C Limp Mode P076A

Discussion in 'Repairs, Maintenance, Help' started by AgentSkelly, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    So on a recent road trip, my wife's 2010 Chrysler T&C with the 3.8 and of course the 62TE trans decided to go into limp mode; it threw code P076A, which shows its a malfuction with shift solenoid H, the DC one. Playing around with it, It goes back to normal operation on cold starts, but comes back into limp mode and throws that code with the MIL on about 15 minutes into operation.

    I had it towed back home; since I work for a towing service out of a old school service station, I had our shop take a look first; one of our Mopar guys said to have our favorite transmission shop diagnose it since no other issues or codes were popping up other than the P076A. So I took it over to said trans shop, they came back and said the solenoid pack ohms out fine, fluid looks OK, they don't see any signs it a mechancial issue, so their thinking its a wiring or PCM issue.

    I played around with it more today, I found a diagnosis guide for the P076A code, checked out all the wiring it said, checked out fine, so the guide recommends PCM replacment, which doesn't quite make sense since everything else is fine.

    Before I go have the local CJDR dealer take a look at it, anyone else have any ideas what else I should look at? I've been thru the mess with the A604 decades ago and this doesn't seem mechanical, but my gut is telling me its not the PCM...
     
  2. chuzz

    chuzz Well-Known Member

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    I'd disconnect the battery and clean every connector involved with the trans and solenoid pack. This would be using an electrical contact cleaner, such as CRC, and then plugging and unplugging all of the connectors 5 or 6 times in order to help "sweep" the contacts clean. In addition, I'd have the battery load tested. Modern cars are extremely sensitive to voltage changes. It could be that you have a dirty connection on the battery or the battery is slowly dying. That's about all I can suggest. I'm NOT a mechanic and have never worked as one.
     
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  3. Gerry G

    Gerry G Well-Known Member

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    As chuzz suggested, I would check out the battery and alternator, should be between 12.4-12.6 volts engine off and around 14 volts engine running (not below 13.8 volts).
     
  4. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The alternator must not have an excessive 'ripple' current and be clean DC. Any excessive ripple can upset sensitive electronics.
    The Miller/SPX transmission simulator tool # 8333 with harness overlay # 9944 should be used by the dealer for diagnosis.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. KOG

    KOG KOG

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  6. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    The descriptions that you find on the internet for diagnostic codes tend to be over simplified and really do not go into sufficient detail. The Chrysler transmission controller routinely checks all the 6 solenoid control circuits for the transmission. When a solenoid is de-energized the controller expects to see about a 40 volt spike on the circuit generated as the magnetic field in the solenoid wiring collapses. If it does NOT see this expected voltage spike it will retest several times and if the expected voltage spike does not occur then a circuit code such as P076A is set.

    Since it seems to only happen after the engine and transmission reach operating temperature, I would suspect a poor electrical connection that is creating excessive resistance in the DC control circuit. Excessive resistance in the circuit will diminish any voltage spike and thus cause the diagnostic code to be set.

    I wonder how thorough the transmission shop was in measuring resistance. Resistance on each of the 6 control solenoids should be about 1.3 ohms. All should be within 0.1 - 0.2 ohms. I would suggest removing the connector at the transmission and measuring each solenoid resistance again and compare all 6 readings.

    Here is a link that shows the pinout for checking the wiring at the PCM and the connector at the transmission. In this particular situation measure the resistance between pin #10 and pin #20 at the transmission for the DC circuit. Also check between #10 and #17, #7, #19, #21, #2 resistances. All should be extremely close in value. If resistance values are all valid, then check the wiring between PCM and transmission connector.

    https://atracom.blob.core.windows.net/manuals/individual/2011/2011-188.pdf
     
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  7. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    Thanks everyone for your help.

    I went ahead and double checked the wiring harness, couldn't find anything. Also borrowed my shop's alternator tester, everything tests out perfectly. So I went ahead and scheduled a dealer visit; my usual dealer didn't have any appointments till two weeks out due to an service department remodel, so I went to dealer down the street from my work, which has a wonky reputation but we work with them on occasion.

    I took it in, about 3 hours later, service advisor calls me. They ran the test with the Miller tool, it apparently blinked, they did the wiggle test, no issues there, PCM was actually replaced under warrently by its previous owner in California about 3 years ago, so it rules that out. Based upon the service manual in this situation, it says to replace the entire solonoid pack. Their cost? $1600.43! So I called up the transmission shop from before, spoke to the owner and he starts laughing. He said he will do the entire thing for under 900. So I told the dealer I'll take my business elsewhere, they were not happy about that and really surprised at their price for some reason....
     
  8. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    The test in a service manual for P076A leaves a lot of questions. Did anyone take a volt-ohm meter and measure the resistance of the transmission control wiring between the PCM and solenoid pack? Did anyone measure the resistance of the 6 solenoids at the wiring connector? Wiggling wires can find intermittent situations but does not reveal excessive resistance.
     
  9. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    Yes, the transmission shop did. Not sure if the dealer did, they advised they did the full service procedure for that code as stated in the FSM.
     
  10. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    Reading the troubleshoot information, it asks if any TIPM fault codes or any other (i.e.- transmission relay control) fault codes are also present. I don't know why the TIPM would specifically pick on the DC (direct clutch) solenoid circuit as I think that it would fault any solenoid depending on the moment when the TIPM itself faulted.
    The problem with intermittent electrical is that you need the error to occur while diagnosing the issue. If it isn't acting up, then everything will look fine.
    If the fault code is 'stored' instead of 'active', there may be 'event data' (a freezeframe or snapshot record) stored of what the vehicle was doing when the fault occurred. This helps to reconstruct the event and may provide some clues about who the culprit is.
    The list of 'Probable Causes' isn't a large one. A competent technician should be able to narrow down the list of suspects and zero in on the problem, but it has to act up long enough to catch and verify what the problem is. The DG/Or wire (circuit T82; 16 ga wire) between the PCM and transaxle must be intact.
    Solenoid packs can fail, but are generally electrically reliable. For a thousand dollars, I would want more evidence that it was, in fact the problem. See attached:
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    Talking with both the transmission shop and my work's Mopar guy, we think it might be an issue with perhaps the DC solenoid itself. The transmission shop is going to try something first; apparently they have a known working DC solenoid from a 545RFE which uses the same solenoids as the 62TE; just change out the o-ring. If its just that one, and the rest of the pack and valve body is good, they will just get the 545RFE solenoid rebuild kit with the 62TE o-rings and go that route, saving me more money.
     
  12. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    Now this is an EXCEPTIONAL repair facility. Don't just fire the "parts cannon and hope for the best". Diagnose, reason and test some theories. I do believe someone is on the proper path to repair.

    Here is a link to a diagnosis and inspection of a 62TE solenoid pack, code P076A. The pack is opened and the DC solenoid resistance is tested. Definitely outside the acceptable range.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0sJ4OtRr2I
     
  13. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    They are an great shop; they have a good reputation with these kind of oddball things. Their shop tech was wondering if one of the bad solenoids perhaps was from when there a recall on the 62TE that is in the ProMasters from a few years ago.

    This is what the dealer wrote when they diagnosed it:
    VERIFIED CONCERN AND ACTIVE P076A DC SOLENOID CIRCUIT. NO OTHER RELATED DTCs. DTC IS ACTIVE. CHECKED PCM AND WIRING WITH THE TRANS SIMULATOR - SIMULATOR BLINKED DURING ACTUATION. PERFORMED WIGGLE TEST AND SIMULATOR BLINKS INDICATING NEEDING TO REPLACE SOLENOID/PRESSURE SWITCH.

    When I had my 2001 Grand Cherokee with the 42RE, I had a weird problem like this where it was in limp mode, 2nd gear from the start. No codes thrown, but the funny thing was that if I pulled the relay for the TCM, I could manually shift all gears no problem. Found an old school Mopar MasterTech training video on YouTube that explains the 42RE operation, which I made an educated it was the Governor Pressure Solenoid and Switch. Went ahead of the replacement, and voila! it works and shifts great. I measured the resistance of the old switch and solenoid and what was funny it was still in spec...
     
  14. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    The dealership service department performed the diagnosis exactly as expected. Unfortunately today dealer service must test and diagnose exactly as the manufacturer dictates. If any deviation and this becomes a manufacturer warranty claim for the repair, the manufacturer will DENY the claim and the service department foots the bill for the customer.

    These procedures are written to dictate and minimize diagnosis time. It does not necessarily reduce costs if the customer is paying the bill. In the test procedure the diagnostic tool blinks or does not blink. What type of testing is really happening? Continuity checking ? Resistance checking? Is the blinking machine attached correctly? Is its internal circuitry functioning properly? Does the test tool have an internal battery and the blinking indicates internal battery voltage below specification and invalid test results? Who knows????
     
  15. ka9yhd

    ka9yhd Well-Known Member

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  16. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    Well, I think both the transmission shop and the dealer did diagnosis right; the transmission shop used the ATSG procedure pages for diagnosing it with a multi meter, which showed the DC solenoid is in spec. But the dealer of course used the Miller/SPX transmission simular tool as Chrysler spec'd in the test which it blinked, indicating to replace the pack.

    I got the T&C back from the shop about an hour ago. They ended up deciding to replace the whole solenoid pack with valve body, due to unable to get any of the solenoids off for testing as stated in earlier post, which I have no problem with since their price was way below the 1600 dollars from the dealer. The theory of this failure by the shops' owner and tech that worked on it is that the DC solenoid is not responding when the temperature is at operating temp. They did check the resistance again and it was on the high side with the engine still hot.
     
  17. chuzz

    chuzz Well-Known Member

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    I'd be more suspicious of that replacement PCM the previous owner had installed if it was mine, but it isn't. Sooooo, is it shifting as it's supposed to and are you happy with it? That's all that really matters.
     
  18. AgentSkelly

    AgentSkelly Active Member

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    From what the dealer said, it looks like it was replaced at the request of the owner. I know this van has a rental car history, Alamo in Newark, CA as I recall.

    It’s shifting great again! The trans shop apparently was able to get the solenoids out off the valve body, it appears it melted slightly on both the DC and TC solenoids. I found this out when I had a tow call to them; owner of shop and me think that perhaps Alamo’s own shop did some parts swapping...
     
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  19. chuzz

    chuzz Well-Known Member

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    Good to know that it appears to be fixed and you're happy. That's what counts.
     

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