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2014 500L DDCT Issue

25K views 58 replies 11 participants last post by  DBY2014 
#1 ·
So today in stop and go traffic the 500L put out a nice cloud of smelly smoke then started shifting a bit more harshly. Just under 1800 miles on it.
Happened very near to the dealer so I just changed my course to the service department. Service guy says this happens occasionally on the DDCT, they do a relearn on the clutch and transmission and he hasn't seen any cars come back a second time for this. I guess I'll find out, but I'm not thrilled to have an issue like this on a 1800 mile car.

Two interesting things:
1) Since I bought the car at the end of December, Fiat has been moved from the building it was in to a small building on what was once the used car lot. And they opened a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram dealership in the building where Fiat used to be.
2) There were no 2015 300 models in stock, just one 300C Platinum in transit that supposedly has an almost $51k MSRP but still only has the V6 engine.
 
#2 ·
Car came back and drove fine, then this morning another problem. Not in traffic this time, not even out of the neighborhood. Parked it and drove the Challenger. Going back to the dealer again tomorrow.
 
#3 ·
Smoke is never good. Was it clutch? Keep us posted.
 
#4 ·
OK, here is the latest.
Fiat advises to put the car into neutral (DDCT) at stops. Fiat advises to manually shift gears of the transmission is shifting between gears 1, 2 and 3 excessively in stop and go traffic.
The malfunction indicator light that the transmission/clutch was overheating never came on prior to the cloud of smoke, jerky shifts and then the loss of pull from the transmission (I won't call it slipping like an automatic transmission, but the clutch was probably slipping). I suspect there are TSBs on this, it's certainly not the operation described in the users manual. This car was supposed to be something more efficient than my truck in city driving - not looking like it's a good choice unless they change the operation of the transmission. Second service guy was not so sure the problem would not come back and recommended the manual shift, put it in neutral routine.
They did a relearn on the clutch - no modules were updated as they all had the latest software.

Yesterday's problem was some red circle warning in the EVIC where the snowflake displays on cold mornings. I have no idea what it meant (it is not found in either of the manuals) but it did not come back on today, the dealer thinks they know what happened so I'll get them to look at it.

Not confidence inspiring at this point. I have to wonder if the clutches get that hot in the DDCT if it's shortening their life?
 
#5 ·
Well, as IC says, smoke is never good. As my Chrysler Zone instructer used to tell us, once you let the smoke out, electrical problems, repairs are coming! might go for transmissions too! I wonder how thick those clutch plates are Valiant67?
 
#6 ·
I decided to file a complaint at NHTSA, something I have never done before.
I consider it a safety issue since the warning light for the overheated transmission/clutch never came on and the car was hesitant to move forward in traffic.

I'm not satisfied with the dealers's "shift into neutral" and "manually shift gears in stop and go traffic to keep the transmission cooler" as this advice does not appear in the operating instructions - my (unprofessional) opinion is they need to tweak the software. I'm curious what, if any, TSBs exist on this issue.

As for this "Yesterday's problem was some red circle warning in the EVIC where the snowflake displays on cold mornings. I have no idea what it meant (it is not found in either of the manuals) but it did not come back on today, the dealer thinks they know what happened so I'll get them to look at it."
It seems to be a fault when it's almost, but not cold enough, to light the snowflake. No big deal - next time I won't freak out and leave the car home.
 
#8 ·
And the DDCT issues are back. Not as much burning smell, but a the shifts are jerky, often late and once there was simply no forward motion from the car in stop and go traffic.
Back to the dealer today - I wonder if this car will last. It's only at 3100 miles.
 
#9 ·
Took the car in Saturday - have not heard anything back yet (nor did I expect to one the weekend).
Another development: Saturday morning before 6 AM I unlocked the car with the remote. Alarm went off when I opened the door. The remote would not turn off the alarm - only the key in the ignition stopped the alarm. I am sure the neighbors loved me.
 
#12 ·
The clutch being burnt up sounds more like an 'effect' than a 'cause'. I hope that they can find the reason for the clutch failure. I don't think that it was the clutch itself.
When it smoked and stunk was when it was slipping. Why was it slipping?
 
#13 ·
The reason could be the "creeping" function that makes the car start to move when the driver release the brake pedal.
Same happened to several Alfa Romeo 4C in U.S.A., but in Europe it seems rare problem. different software settings?

I really don't understand why try to push to limits a dual clutch gearbox trying to simulate a "traditional" automatic gearbox and not let a dual clutch be a dual clutch gearbox and nothing else.

Note: in Europe there is no Fiat 500L with dual clutch gearbox.
 
#14 · (Edited)
So the dealer called yesterday evening and asked if I wanted to come in and talk about the situation. The salesman who sold the 500L, the service manager (hands still greasy), the sales manager and the GM (or asst GM) of the dealer were all there to talk with me. Service manager said he thought there was a reflash for the transmission but there wasn't. he also said they would commit to an addition 24 month/24k of goodwill warranty on top of the factory 12 month/12k on the clutch assembly. But he also said that Atlanta (due to the heat and traffic) was considered an extreme environment. He says (and I kind of believe him) that this was the first time one of these DDCTs returned with a clutch failure after the relearn. Then he stated that if I no longer had confidence in the 500L to function properly in Atlanta's traffic, he would recommend the car should be replaced. Since the 500L was bought in December, the dealer had added Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram to the lot.

The salesman started pulling cars that had a similar sticker price that could be discounted to what the 500L sold for. That was a selection of Journeys (nicest was a Crossroads) , Compasses and Patriots. I could not warm up to the Compass and Patriots and didn't want a sedan like a Dart or 200. They could have actually lowered the payment slightly with the Journey but it was a 2.4 4 speed auto, though fairly well equipped. There was not a V6 Journey there. Also, they said they could probably make a Cherokee Sport or one of the plainer Latitudes work. In the end, I put a little more money in and ended up with a 2015 4 cylinder Cherokee Limited FWD, no sunroof or safety tech but still pretty nicely equipped. The staff was there until 10 PM last night to get the deal together. Hats off the Landmark C/D/J/R/F on Peachtree Industrial Road in Atlanta.

I know the 9 speed is not without issues, but I think in the FWD version is doing better than the AWD version.
 
#16 ·
Glad to see the dealer was more than willing to work with you.

As much as I like Journey's (we've had two), I think you wouldn't have liked the 4 cylinder version. They are just a little too underpowered for my taste and the V6 versions fuel mileage is only slightly worse than the 4 cylinder.
 
#18 ·
I could have probably gotten a slightly better deal (though it would have taken a lot more time and effort) pursuing the state lemon law.
I didn't think it was worth the time and extra effort - the dealer took care of me and I am happy with what they did. Plus I got Sirius traffic and travel link which the 500L did not offer.
 

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#20 ·
Very nice ride, Valiant67.

When you get settled-in, give us an owner's "First Person" profile. You have a unique perspective moving from the F500 to the 500L to the Cherokee. That aspect, alone, has a unique fingerprint to it.
I agree. Indeed, it might seem that FIAT still is not ready for primetime in US sales as far as quality control/design goes. I have seen other web sites with similiar complaints. I hope FIAT gets these problems fixed fast as the automatice trans in this country is a big seller versus manual trans. I have been looking at the 500L and Darts and talking to owners of both when I see them in parking lots. Most loved their vehicles. The biggest complaint on the FIATs was the power of the 1.4 engine.
 
#21 ·
For 2015 the 500L offers the manual transmission, the DDCT (automated manual) and a true automatic (at a 2 mpg penalty). I'm guessing the DDCT was enough of an issue that they added the regular automatic.
According to Jeep's website, they did not perform the latest software flashes on the Cherokee before delivery (I doubt by the time the deal was made there was anyone left in the building to do it). They owe me a detail so I may drop the car off tomorrow for the detail and reflash.
 
#23 ·
The funny part is it really operated well - well timed, quick shifting, great fuel economy - until it overheats. The design apparently does not disengage the clutch unless you throw it in neutral, which is fine if you are sitting still but impractical in stop and go traffic.
 
#25 ·
That's what I've been thinking.

Out loud : "Here we have a trusted soul who doesn't seem to be overly pumping-up the brand, nor yet is such a "Fix it again, Tony" hater that he screams 'Murder!' if he gets a flake of dust in his eye ... yet, enough of these models seem to have been sold to hear other people's complaints about the 500L's DDCT. "

Some further looking did reveal a few complaints. One did finally mention identical circumstances (smoking, chugging and/or a lock-up requiring a tow), and another claimed they wanted to pursue Lemon Law remedy. Other reviews merely gave what I would characterize as a 'Numb Acknowledgment' of transmission problems. Among the small sample of owner reviews, very few people mentioned enough detail to rightly categorize the negative.

Here's where I found the one customer with identical or near-identical problem with the 500L DDCT :

http://www.edmunds.com/fiat/500l/2014/consumer-reviews/review-162776947301449728/
 
#27 ·
When I was researching this problem I didn't see too much on line either for the 500L DDCT, but then that is a very small population of vehicles. Just a few scattered reports. But then I expanded my search and saw similar problems with the Dodge Dart when the DDCT was installed and even the Afla Romeo 4C. It seems most people have not had the severe repeat of the problem as I did. I also looked up other makes and did find the DDCT overheating issue in some Fords.

What I found interesting (and I would guess true from my experience of an overheated transmission without the transmission warning light being illuminated) is that the computer calculates what temperature it thinks the transmission is. Therefore the transmission could overheat (as mine did) without the warning light coming on or the light could come on without the transmission overheating.

I think the 500L with a different transmission (like the 6 speed auto) and a bigger engine would be a great car. I have a friend with a 500L and the "real" manual transmission has been doing well, with the exception of the clutch slipping when backing up an incline.
 
#28 ·
When I was researching this problem I didn't see too much on line either for the 500L DDCT, but then that is a very small population of vehicles. Just a few scattered reports. But then I expanded my search and saw similar problems with the Dodge Dart when the DDCT was installed and even the Afla Romeo 4C. It seems most people have not had the severe repeat of the problem as I did. I also looked up other makes and did find the DDCT overheating issue in some Fords.

What I found interesting (and I would guess true from my experience of an overheated transmission without the transmission warning light being illuminated) is that the computer calculates what temperature it thinks the transmission is. Therefore the transmission could overheat (as mine did) without the warning light coming on or the light could come on without the transmission overheating.

I think the 500L with a different transmission (like the 6 speed auto) and a bigger engine would be a great car. I have a friend with a 500L and the "real" manual transmission has been doing well, with the exception of the clutch slipping when backing up an incline.
On the Edmunds site as I was following up on owner reviews, virtually everyone who opted for the true manual love the car - quirky styling be damned (fuel economy, outward visibility, interior comfort, space & layout, ride were all cited as strong points). It seems the 1.4L/DDCT is giving the 500L a bad name (except yet other people with the DDCT have also said they are aware of the problem and are not experiencing symptoms). 2015 models with the 'other' automatic haven't been Owner Reported quite yet.

I, too, would wonder about Chrysler I4 packaging/fitment and performance. Maybe it can be massaged into what it was intended to be, except by making use of "our" 4-cylinders?
 
#30 ·
In Europe it is not yet used in the Fiat 500L, but in Alfa Romeo Giulietta, Mito (and 4C).
What is different in european models? Likely software tuning parameters are different and also all european models have stop/start system, so, for example, the engine is stopped and there is less risk of clutch overheat.
At FCA, in my opinion, they should make the double clutch work like what is and less mimic a "traditional automatic".

The double clutch gearbox will be start to be yused soon also in FWD Fiat 500X and Jeep Renegade with 1.4 gasoline engine (138 HP version).
 
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