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2014 500L DDCT Issue

Discussion in 'Fiat' started by valiant67, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Eaton is now introducing for medium duty applications a dual clutch transmission, the Eaton Procision.
    Maybe could in a future be used by Ram in some applications.

    http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Procision/index.htm

    note: Eaton UltraShift Plus maximum torque is now 2250 lbs ft.
     
  2. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps they will move away from the Fiat DDCT as a sole solution in favor of the NAFTA 500L having the Fiat DDCT/Start-Stop as an option, or the 6-speed Auto or the Manual Transmission ... just not the Fiat DDCT alone. Hope that makes sense. In other words : in the NAFTA region the DDCT must be paired with Start-Stop.

    Later Edit - I don't see Start-Stop available on the 500L for 2015. I didn't scour the options list, however; and Build-n-Price didn't show it.
     
    #42 JavelinAMX, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  3. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    I think my experience was worse than average, something must have been defective from the beginning in my car. It's a shame, in some ways the "form factor" of the 500L was better than the Cherokee that replaced it (for my needs). The Cherokee is definitely a CUV/SUV but the 500L was more like a small minivan other than the lack of sliding doors.
    I guess for most users the clutch will provide a satisfactory life. But this design is not well suited to city use in traffic congestion.
     
    floridaman2013 and JavelinAMX like this.
  4. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    Did we ever hear a reason why the Start/Stop system isn't available on the 500L here in the US?
     
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  5. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    I went to the Fiat-Uk site (I do not read Italian, unfortunately). Found, in a roundabout way, the 500 can be had with Start-Stop ... a few others. But alas, not all. I found no reference to Start-Stop being available in Britain on the 500L. Haven't taken the time necessary to confirm the same on the Fiat.it site, sorry to say. (In Britain Qubo and Doblo, and I believe Punto have Start-Stop as an available option as well). So, my earlier stated hope falls to the ground. Perhaps the MultiAir World Engine 2.0L and its auto trans package can fit the architecture. Maybe now that's called 'Hurricane' . It would be interesting . Perhaps a cooperative SRT/Abarth ... SabaRTh could come of it :D
     
  6. MJAB

    MJAB Well-Known Member

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    Here Fiat 500L model sheet for Europe

    On some models there is start&stop system like diesel, on some no, like 1.4 T-Jet gasoline enfine and 1.4 FIRE gasoline or the alternative fuel engines, methane and LPG. The last very likely since when started they start with gasoline and than automaticaly switch to the other fuel.
    There no Fiat 500L with dual clutch transmission in Europe.

    500L: http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/schede_tecniche/140724_500L_EN.pdf
    500L Trekking: http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/schede_tecniche/140724_500LTrekking_EN.pdf

    European 500L Trekking is a little bit different, a little bit more ground clereance and Traction+ system that uses brakes to mimic a locking differential (except LPG version).

    If You look at Jeep Renegade datasheet there is a fact, 1.4 Multiair gasoline engine in Europe has Stop&Start system, for NAFTA no.
    All engines with exception of 2.4 Tigershark and 1.6 E.Torq have Stop&Start system.
    Maybe is it because is not available with the 2.4 gasoline engine?

    http://www.fiatpress.com/download/2014/schede_tecniche/Technical_Sheet_Jeep_Renegade_ENG.pdf
     
  7. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The saga continues.
    While I had my Jeep in for service, one of the service people told me my old 500L had returned to the dealership with the new clutch assembly smoking. Never even lasted long enough for owner #2 to get the temporary license plate off the car and get a real one. Dealer bought it back from him. I saw it sitting behind the service department, wonder if they will try replacing the entire transmission next. The clutch assembly is 8 hours of labor plus something like $700 for the parts.

    Then they told me a lady in another 500L had a DDCT clutch meltdown and they (with Chrysler's trade assistance like I got) got her out of her 500L and into a Jeep. I think there's a lot of ticking time bombs out there in early Darts and 500Ls.
     
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  8. floridaman2013

    floridaman2013 Active Member

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    Man, this might be a picture of what's to come! Hope not for Chrysler's sake as this would be bad publicity fast since these vehiles have the Dodge nameplate (Dart). Fiat might be on their own if they don't fix these right.
     
  9. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The 2013 Dart had a recall M37 to address improperly manufactured (leaking) hydraulic clutch slave cylinders. I was hoping that was the end of the problem. When a slave cylinder leaks down, the clutch will apply.
    http://www.dodge.com/webselfservice/pdf/M37.pdf
    I don't know how prevalent this issue is in real terms. I hope that it doesn't become widespread. It does sound like a hardware rather than a software fix.
    The transaxle does have to come down to replace these clutch cylinders. A real PITA for the technician on warranty time and pay.
     
  10. floridaman2013

    floridaman2013 Active Member

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    I was just reading a review on Edmund's about the 500L and it seems for 2015 models, the DDCT have been replaced on most models except the base with a new completely automatic 6 speed. Must be a lot of burn ups out there we don't hear about! Edmund's still reccomends NOT buying a Fiat 500L as there are other better vehicles available for the same money. It looks like Fiat got smart when biulding the 500X and used the the Renegade/Dart 2.4 drivetrain. That should bolster sales and dependability a bit.
     
  11. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    Not that it's been replaced, but that the 6-speed PowerTech automatic (as in the Dart) is being offered along with the DDCT.

    Some folks simply don't like the "feel" of the DDCT, much like some don't like CVTs.
     
  12. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    I gotta wonder what would've been had they moved forward with the Chrysler Dual Clutch. Being a wet-clutch type, it would not likely not have had this exact overheating Gotcha to cause owner confidence problems. I also don't know if the Chrysler Dual Clutch was intended for an engine of the size of the FIRE engine.
     
  13. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    Wondering since the 500X and the Renegade have the 2.4L available if the 500L can be packaged with that same engine? I tend to like the overall use of space in the 500L, but the combination of the DDCT situation and the Turbo 1.4L is too much of a departure from my comfort level. Not being automatically against Turbo I4's, I don't want to deal with off-the-line lag (thus a major component of desiring Small Diesels). However, maybe after the Sugar-Plum Faerie delivers a GDI Hurricane I'll change my mind (supposing they'll find a way to fit it into the 500L). I still think the 500L needs Abarth treatment, too. But I digress. I'd very likely change my mind and consider the 500L as a Micro-van type of vehicle - just not with the DDCT meltdown history still so fresh.
     
    #53 JavelinAMX, Jun 28, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2015
  14. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    The Fiat 500L now uses a conventional Aisin 6 speed automatic (not the Powertech)- same automatic the 500 uses with the Abarth and Turbo with the 1.4. I've read real good things about the Aisin automatic in the Abarth 500 so I assume it will perform well in the 500L. The downside is I think the highway mpg goes down to 30 with the new automatic.
     
  15. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    The downside is not that bad ... it appears a DDCT after a meltdown is getting zero mpg.
     
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  16. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    Wow, I can't get away from this car, the 2014 500L. Dealer called and they want to sell it again and want me to come back in and sign the trade assistance paperwork again. I went through this once with them but the first time they resold it (with full disclosure, mind you) the car never lasted past the 45 day temp tag before the failure of the new clutch assembly. So they voided that sale and they are trying with a 3rd clutch and another sale. So I told them I'd stop by and they said they'll give me something for my trouble (they usually offer a free detail or a top off of the gas tank).
     
  17. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

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    The 500L now offers three transmissions, the manual 6 speed, the DDCT 6 speed and the automatic 6 speed (it depends trim which are available, I believe).
    The DDCT (when working) delivered the same highway MPG as the manual, but lost 1 MPG in the city. The new true automatic loses both 3 mpg in town (which is where a car like this is going to be used more) and 3 mpg on the highway. Being how heavy the 500L is compared to an Abarth 500, I'd have to wonder if it's going to feel sluggish. The retuned 1.4T and DDCT felt pretty peppy when it worked in my 500L (for what it was).
     
  18. JavelinAMX

    JavelinAMX Well-Known Member

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    I wondered out loud what they could do for this architecture here in the States, what with the 500X out now and powered by the 2.4L / Nine-speed combination. The 500L seems to be the more practical configuration - not that the 500X is so bad. That leaves either the manual or the 6-speed with the 1.4L engine. If they could fit the 2.4L, that might be the right combination.
     
  19. DBY2014

    DBY2014 Active Member

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    The 1.4L torque rating increased using the Aisin automatic in the Abarth, wonder if it increased in the 500L over the DDCT or manual.
     

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