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2015 300?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by scott cornett, May 19, 2014.

  1. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

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    Is a Miata a high-end car? Is an AE-86 Toyota Corolla a high-end car? Is a Nissan 240SX a high-end car? Is a Subaru BRZ a high-end car? Is a Charger a high-end car? Is a Mustang a high-end car? Is a Hyundai Genesis coupe a high-end car?

    No. None of those cars could be considered high-end. High-end cars are often have RWD, but RWD cars are often not high-end. The 300 is not a BMW competitor, nor is it really even a Mercedes competitor.
     
  2. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Because most high end cars these days have over 400hp and afaik over 300hp doesn't make too much sense for FWD because of torque steer. There aren't many FWD cars over 300hp that I know of. I think you could also argue that over a certain amount of hp one should go to AWD. (Fine print: just personal observation and not based on engineering experience :)).
     
  3. tomaz

    tomaz Well-Known Member

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    Audi A5,6,7,8's are High End cars, but they are also AWD.... Just Saying.
     
  4. hmk123

    Level III Supporter

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    Many of Audi's cars start as FWD cars. Even the A5. At least in Germany where its base engine is a 170hp 1.8L I4. Guess I was thinking more of cars like the 7 series, S Class and A8 (AWD).
     
  5. tomaz

    tomaz Well-Known Member

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    um.... Most Audi's (4,5,6,7,8) Engines run North-South, much like the LH Chryslers, but These cars were designed to be AWD from the start.. Audi A1 and A3 were designed to be FWD.

    2012 A5
    [​IMG]

    2015 A4
    [​IMG]

    Anyway, the 300 Does not need to be RWD to be "high end", it just need to have a sophisticated Drive Train ( like Audi or hell even the 200) Standard to be a high end sedan.
     
  6. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

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    Audi has FWD versions of most of their vehicles, including the A8. A sophisticated drive-train still won't make the 300 "high-end". It still needs some interior improvements if it wants to be competitive with Audi...but with the shift to Chrysler being mainstream, I don't see that happening. That's not to say there won't be a very nicely equipped future 300, but I don't see a true Audi/lexus/benz competitive model/trim showing up.
     
  7. XRT2SRT

    XRT2SRT Well-Known Member

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    I am stand in the corner with Mr Source on this one....for some reason (unknown) ni ghink we'll all be very pleasantly surprised when the all new 300 line is released...just got "a feeling".
     
  8. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    With all due respect to Audi, I can still feel the torque steer in their FWD models, which, IMO, is NOT a "high end" feel.
    Their N-S alignment helps with suspension options and does mitigate much of the torque steer, but it does not eliminate it. Just because they are expensive, doesn't make them premium, in my mind.
     
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  9. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Bob S. just gave us an excellent lesson on the merits of RWD, FWD and AWD on Chrysler Chat. It did wonders to help my non-engineer brain understand the real nuances (as opposed to imagined) in driving feel.

    Norm, I noticed you specifically said Audi "FWD". My caveat would be that Audi probably wants most of us to think of Audi as an "AWD" brand. No offense to anyone, but a FWD Audi is simply entry-level offering for those who want a luxury car without having the means (or the appreciation) to pay for one --much like a Mercedes CLA
     
  10. Mr.Source

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    Chrysler isn't standing still with the 300, we might see a new one sonn, how soon, I can't tell you, but most of all the products from Chrysler will be new by 2017,
     
  11. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Should I hold onto my 2012 Challenger 392 awhile longer, and not jump on a 2015 300 392 with 8-speed auto...? ;)
     
  12. redriderbob

    redriderbob Mopar Guru!
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    Most cars up until the late 1970s were RWD. Including vehicles like Aspen and Volare, far from luxury vehicles.
     
  13. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    That's like saying most fruit and vegetables were Organic 100 years ago.

    That doesn't make them any less desirable today. Actually, quite the opposite in a world constantly racing for the lowest common denominator.
     
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  14. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Point? Most cars have radios too, and some are far from luxury vehicles.
    Go read Bob's "lesson" for a full understanding of Aldo's point.
     
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  15. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Most high-end large sedans today are RWD, or RWD based AWD.

    Luxury:
    MB C-, E-, and S-Class
    BMW 3-7 Series
    Cadillac ATS & CTS
    Bentley Flying Spur
    Bentley Mulsanne
    RR Ghost (which uses a modified Beamer 7-series chassis)
    RR Phantom
    Porsche Panamera
    Aston Martin Rapide
    Maserati Quattroporte
    Maserati Ghibli (uses a modified LX chassis)
    Jaguar XF & XJ

    Main Line:
    Chrysler 300
    Dodge Charger
    Hyundai Genesis
    Chevrolet SS

    Most performance vehicles are RWD or RWD-based AWD:

    Luxury:
    Entire Ferrari lineup
    Entire Lamborghini lineup
    Bugatti Veyron
    Audi R8
    MB SLS AMG
    BMW M3, M4, M5, and Alpina B7
    BMW Z4
    Bentley Continental
    Entire Lotus lineup
    Entire Aston lineup
    Maserati Gran Turismo
    Alfa Romeo 4C
    Entire Porsche sports car lineup
    Dodge Viper
    Jaguar F-Type & XK

    Everyday:
    Dodge Challenger
    Chevy Camaro
    Ford Mustang
    Chevy Corvette
    Nissan 370Z/Infiniti Coupe
    Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ
    Mazda Miata


    At least in my mind, there is no coincidence that RWD is chosen for performance and dynamic ability by the vast majority of automakers. I'm not a smart man, but I recognize that there are a lot of smart men at those manufacturers. If there wasn't an inherent advantage for performance, layout, handling, packaging, etc, then the automakers wouldn't be building them that was for the top of the market in either luxury or performance.
     
  16. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

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    One little mistake- the Flying Spur uses a modified Audi A8 platform, which you know can be had in FWD in its most basic configuration. That being said, it was designed with AWD in mind from the beginning (as someone pointed out above).
     
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  17. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Cord 810/812...

    Cord L-29...

    Olds Tornado...

    Caddy ElDorado.

    All luxury and only FWD.
     
  18. geraldg

    Ad-Free Member

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    All dead and gone.
     
  19. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

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    Actually Cadillac still had a ton "luxury" FWD models until the early 2000s. Their flagship XTS is FWD/AWD as well. It wasn't really until the re-imaging of the brand as a BMW competitor did they start bringing in lots of RWD models.
     
  20. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    The new XTS, in both configurations, exhibits near zero torque steer, so there is a difference that allows it to exist.
     
    #520 MoparNorm, Jul 24, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
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