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2015 300?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by scott cornett, May 19, 2014.

  1. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Agreed, but none of those is around today. The closest are the Bentley Flying Spur (as I was corrected) and the Cadillac XTS, both of which were set up from the get-go for AWD. Thanks to your lesson on the Chrysler chat I realize that there are so many different set ups and variances to AWD as to be mind boggling, but in terms of layouts and driving the basic facts are there. I just think that it's very interesting which vehicles in each segment are using the various drive options.
     
  2. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Does not matter. A definitive statement was as made that was incorrect which I corrected. As is your statement regarding FWD and RWD incorrect in both reasoning and fact.
     
  3. tomaz

    tomaz Well-Known Member

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    Im Pretty sure the XTS wasnt designed as a primarilyb AWD sedan lol...
     
  4. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    The XTS was designed from the get go, as both a FWD/AWD vehicle. Which is what HotCarNut wrote.
     
  5. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    Cadillac is gaining market momentum with new RWD models ATS and CTS.

    You see the new ATS and CTS driving around German luxury-dominated So Cal; XTS is still a rare sight around here despite having been around longer than the new RWD models.

    Motor Trend had a comparo of the Acura RLX and the Cadillac XTS: I thought it was a pathetic review of two $60,000 FWD V6 sedans coming across to luxury buyers as imitation crab. http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1304_2014_acura_rlx_vs_2013_cadillac_xts4_comparison/

    IMO, Cadillac XTS was just a stopgap product at a time when 2nd gen CTS was getting old and ATS was not yet ready.

    Reports that Cadillac is readying a proper RWD V8 flagship sedan as the upcoming LTS suggests Cadillac is committed to fighting the Germans at their own game.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2016-cadillac-lts-spy-photos-future-cars
     
    #525 aldo90731, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  6. edgecrusher

    edgecrusher Well-Known Member

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    I believe an article on Autoblog went as far as calling the XTS the "Cadillac of stopgaps."
     
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  7. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    LOL. Well, XTS already has the"X" in front of it!

    If Cadillac knew from the outset that luxury buyers would view XTS as imitation crab, while Acura seriously believed RLX would be seen as Alaska King crab, that alone exposes a fundamental difference in their understanding of the luxury market.
     
    #527 aldo90731, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  8. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    Maybe, but XTS is much, much nicer than the DTS is replaced. It's nicer and has more features than CTS.
    ATS remains a puzzle to me as it's nearly size identical to CTS, with nicer features. Seems to me a higher trim level for CTS would make ATS redundant.
     
  9. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

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    You may be thinking about the outgoing CTS.

    The new CTS is much larger, more luxurious and much nicer in every respect --including significantly pricier; effectively placing XTS on notice.

    We were skeptical Cadillac could successfully reposition CTS from a 3-Series to a 5-Series competitor. But based on early indications, they may be able to pull it off.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-cadillac-cts-sedan-photos-and-info-news
     
    #529 aldo90731, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  10. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    Bob - you know I respect you and your knowledge immensely. However, please don't put words in my mouth. I listed out the CURRENT market leaders in the luxury category that were RWD. I never claimed that one was inherently superior to the other as I'm not an engineer and can't prove it or even speak coherently to it. What I did say was that I believe it makes a statement when engineers at those companies who make their living by offering luxury performance sedans and sports cars choose predominantly RWD. They are the experts, and their companies depend upon the performance of their vehicles (along with interior fit and finish) to command a premium price.

    As you've shown with Little Blue and your technical explanations, anything is possible in terms of performance with the right amount of engineering time and an unlimited budget. Hence, it's probably feasible (again, no clue as I'm not an engineer and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) to build a FWD sedan that matches in every way a RWD sedan. However, when the rubber meets the road it seems that the drivetrain technology & layout of choice in today's luxury market has been RWD biased - these are the vehicles predominantly offered today. I qualified it as my opinion and thoughts, and didn't pretend to make a definitive engineering statement as to the superiority of one over the other.

    EDIT - last sentence had been deleted accidentally
     
  11. Bran

    Bran Well-Known Member

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    The new CTS is half an inch narrower, with an inch longer wheelbase. It's huge problem is (the same as ATS) small backseat.
    ..............................wheelbase...........width
    Challenger...................116 in.........75.7 in
    Cadillac CTS.............114.6 in.........72.2 in
    BMW 5 series...........116.9 in..........73.2 in
    Chrysler 300............120.2 in..........75.1 in
    Hyundai Genesis.....118.5 in..........74.4 in
     
  12. aldo90731

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    It doesn't seem to be hurting sales, though. Especially with a $15,000 higher starting MSRP.
     
    #532 aldo90731, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  13. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    I think what he meant by larger is overall, not just wheelbase. Plus, it's significantly larger than ATS. See below chart for the most current model of each with the top engine option:
    Cadillac CTS Chrysler 300C Varvatos Hyundai Genesis Cadillac ATS
    Front head room
    39.2 in.38.6 in.39.4 in.38.6 in.
    Front hip room53.8 in.56.2 in.55.7 in.53.0 in.
    Front leg room42.6 in.41.8 in.45.7 in.42.5 in.
    Front shoulder room56.9 in.59.5 in.58.3 in.55.2 in.
    Rear hip Room53.3 in.56.1 in.54.8 in.52.3 in.
    Rear head room37.5 in.37.9 in.38.2 in.36.8 in.
    Rear leg room35.4 in.40.1 in.35.0 in.33.5 in.
    Rear shoulder room54.8 in.57.7 in.57.1 in.53.9 in.
    Width72.2 in.75.0 in.74.4 in.71.1 in.
    Height57.2 in.58.7 in.58.3 in.55.9 in.
    Length195.5 in.198.6 in.196.5 in.182.8 in.
    Front track61.4 in.63.4 in.63.8 in.59.5 in.
    Rear track61.7 in.63.8 in.64.3 in.60.9 in.
    Wheel base114.6 in.120.2 in.118.5 in.109.3 in.
    Cargo capacity, all seats in place13.7 cu.ft.16.3 cu.ft.15.3 cu.ft.10.4 cu.ft.
    Maximum towing capacity1000 lbs.1000 lbs.N/A1000 lbs.
    EPA interior volume110.7 cu.ft.122.6 cu.ft.123.0 cu.ft.101.3 cu.ft.
    Curb weight3843 lbs.4029 lbs.4541 lbs.3461 lbs.
    Ground clearanceN/A5.0 in.5.3 in.N/A
    Gross weightN/A5100 lbs.N/A4561 lbs.
    Drag CoefficientN/A0.32 Cd0.26 CdN/A
    Maximum cargo capacityN/AN/A15.3 cu.ft.N/A
     
  14. MoparNorm

    MoparNorm Active Jeeper
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    The CTS still has poor back seat egress and foot room. The XTS is not a large car, in the classic Cadillac sense, yet displays the interior space of a large car. Both ATS and CTS are less than optimum in interior space. Narrow in the front, short of leg room and egress space, in the rear. The XTS hits the sweet spot.
    I will agree the previous CTS was a disappointment in terms of luxuriousness and options, with an amazing list of missing standard items, compared to other cars. It was a 2012 model with 2002 appointments.
     
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  15. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    I'd agree with that about the previous generation(s) of the CTS. I looked at them both initially, and then when the last re-design came out. The last generation was a huge step forward from the first, but still trailed a lot of other vehicles in and out of its category. That's one of the reasons I bought my 300S - I thought the interior was better than anything within 10k of it pricewise, and it had a lot more interior space than anything within $20k from the luxury manufacturers. I thought (and still think) it was a tremendous value for the package that you got.

    BTW Norm, I went with the Challenger Scat Pack 392 over the Wrangler....I just couldn't resist! It's on order in Sublime Green with nearly every option checked. :D
     
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  16. aldo90731

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    The upcoming Cadillac LTS flagship sedan should fix the rear seat shortcomings of ATS and CTS.

    Fixing rear seat accommodations by going with a transverse V6 FWD configuration is fine for Chevrolet, Honda and Ford, but not for Cadillac, Acura or Lincoln. That's the luxury equivalent of a KL... ;)
     
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  17. hmk123

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    Interesting, up here in Northern California the new CTS doesn't seem to do as well as the previous one when it first came out. I still hardly see one. I do see some ATSs. But it is good to hear that they are gaining traction down south. Up here I would say I have seen as many new CTSs as I have seen Ghiblis.
     
  18. aldo90731

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    Truth be said, the ATS is far more common sight than the new CTS. But my point is that either of those is far more common sight than the XTS, despite the latter having been around longer.
     
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  19. hmk123

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    Ah, yes, good point. I hardly ever see an XTS...
     
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  20. HotCarNut

    HotCarNut Defender of Reality
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    So enough about Cadillac in this thread....;)

    Do any of the insiders have updates on interior changes for the 2015 300? I know we've heard exterior changes are minimal (front and rear fascia tweaks), but we haven't heard a lot about the interior. Will there be a ventilated seat option for the S models? Leather wrapped dash available on the S? I'm assuming that there will be a change to the TFT displays as in the Charger....
     
    #540 HotCarNut, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014

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