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2016-17 and beyond JGC shifter

Discussion in 'Grand Cherokee, Durango, etc' started by DirtyLarry, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    I posed a similar question over in the RAM TRX thread about the auto trans console shifter, but we are about a year away from a lease return of my car (Chev Malibu) and we’re already looking at replacement considerations. The wife loves the current JGC so she would get the new vehicle and I would inherit her ’14 Impala (new body style..sweet car too) as a daily driver. Specifically, a Trailhawk with the 3.6L. While I really like the 4th gen JGC as well, if the new one has an electric shifter it will be a deal breaker. I will not accept one of those. I noticed the ’16 and ’17 have what appears to be a real shifter. Can someone confirm the latest JGC has a cable operated shifter or is it just another electric shifter made to look like the real deal?


    11-13 JGC shifters. We confident to know this is a mechanical cable operated shifter
    [​IMG]

    Part diagram of the 11-13 JGC shift control cable
    [​IMG]

    14-15 Electric shifter…. No bueno. I won’t accept one of these
    [​IMG]


    16-17 shifter. Is this a mechanical cable operated shifter or electric? If this too is electric the JGC is off the consideration list. These are too new to be listed on Rock Auto, Napa ProLink, etc. and I don’t have access to a FCA parts catalog for exploded views to see how it works.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    You know, it really doesn't matter if the shifter is mechanical (cable operated) or electric.
    If it's an electric shifter, the movement is converted to an electrical signal at the switch and that electrical signal is sent to the transmission.
    If it's a mechanical shifter, the cable moves and triggers an electronic switch at the transmission.
    In either case, nothing mechanical moves in the transmission without an electronic trigger, either from the shifter or a switch at the end of the cable.
    The 11-13 probably had the cable because the old 5 speed transmission was still used then.
     
  3. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    No, no, no….. you’re wrong buddy. That is the problem…most people have no idea how an automatic transmission works. Sometimes I wish I didn’t either so I could be a naïve consumer like everybody else.

    The vast majority of vehicles on the road today still use mechanical shift cables (yes, even electronically controlled transmissions) from the shifter assembly to the range selector shaft on the transmission, which mechanically operates the park pawl and spool valve in the valve body for forward and reverse fluid flow. Once the vehicle is moving, gear upshifting and downshifting is done electronically by very simple in/out, 1/0, on/off shift solenoids. Electronically controlled transmission shift solenoids are nothing new and have been around since the 80’s. Those are dirt reliable for the most part while encoder motors to run the selector shaft is pretty new to auto transmissions (not to 4x4 transfercases though) and not durable or reliable. That is what I am talking about…..electronic range selection. Electronic range selection is overcomplicating a simple system with unneeded technology that is dangerous and simply not durable.

    Who it technical savvy enough to know if the current JGC shifter is cable operated or electric? @redriderbob
     
  4. BobbiBigWheels

    BobbiBigWheels I'm likely at work...
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    Welcome to AllPar. Your early condescension is not going to garner much a response from this forum.
     
    Bob Lincoln likes this.
  5. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    What ever "vast majority" of other transmissions do doesn't mean this transmission does.

    I know enough to know the interface between the ZF 8 speed and the vehicle is fully electronic.
     
    Bob Lincoln likes this.
  6. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    Looks like we are going to find out. Odd the ZF would be THAT much different than anything else. Even the new GM/Ford 10 speed has a mechanical selector shaft with a real deal cable going from the shifter assembly to the selector shaft.
     
  7. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    Even my old '07 Chrysler trans, uses electronic actuation even though it appears and feels like a conventional gated shifter.
    I drove a '14 for a test drive over the weekend and after a few min quickly adapted to this shifter. It is like a motorcyle sequential shifter, you can't go by the muscle memory position of where you moved the shift lever. All you need to do in order to adapt to it is watch the instrument panel read-out about which gear you are in. If you do that, then you are quite unlikely to have a problem with this shifter. BTW, there was a new Challenger Hellcat on the showroom floor, priced at 67K and it has that shifter.
     
  8. valiant67

    valiant67 Rich Corinthian Leather
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    The Hellcat shifter looks similar, but it is different. The Challenger shifter (and the 15-up other cars) does not return to center like the previous shifter.
     
  9. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    Interesting did not know that
     
  10. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    That is odd because parts catalogs show the 2007 545RFE has a cable shifter
    [​IMG]
     
    W6PEA likes this.
  11. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    But does the cable select the gear position or does it just operate the shift interlock?
     
  12. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    Both.....see the two cables?
     
  13. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    I know that electronic failures resulted in abnormal read outs in the ip cluster and an inability to shift gears on some units.
     
  14. LouJC

    LouJC Active Member

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    There is a lot more stuff crammed into that sfift module than on my old 98!
     
  15. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    Exactly, silly how complicated things have to be for no reason. The reality is it looks like not many people really know which have electronic range selection and what doesn’t and the scary thing is most people don’t care.

    Some cars are real morphydites like the Chrysler 200 where it has an electronic shifter but yet under the hood there is a module/motor that operates a cable that connects to the manual range selector arm. The new Cadillac XT5 with the Aisin transmission is similar where it has an electronic shifter that works the manual range shift selector arm. Same with the new Buick LaCrosse.

    …..but back to my main question on the ZF in the 2016/2017 JGC it does appear the ZF 8 speed is 100% electronic where it doesn’t even have a mechanical spool valve, park pawl or anything as the Chrysler tech pointed out in the other thread. For shame…. I’ve been a big advocate where major human to machine interfaces such as brakes, steering and gear selection should be mechanically connected. The industry is getting way too reliant on electronics and autonomy. I'm not entirely against electronics where it makes sense but I am just an old fashion 44 year old guy where I don't like the main human to machine interfaces electrified. And of course, someone will always bring up the aviation industry as everything is practically "wired" which isn’t even close to automotive as aviation has several redundant circuits for darn near everything. If the automotive industry did that we couldn’t afford any vehicle
     
    #15 DirtyLarry, Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2016
  16. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    While the ZF 9 speed is available with a drive by wire valve body or a drive by cable valve body, I have never seen a Chrysler 200 with ZF that uses a drive by cable valve body.

    The every 3.6L 200 uses full electronic shift where PRND is selected completely by wire. There is a manual selector to disengage the park pawl on all of these transmissions, this is the only manual cable connected to the transmission. I have not looked at a 2.4 equipped model to compare but last I checked it was the same and the only cable and shifter linkage available thru Mopar parts was for the park release.

    Mike
     
    #16 Mike V., Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  17. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    All 8 speed equipped Jeeps, Chrysler, Dodge, and Ram vehicle used electronic shifters with a manual lever/cable to disengage the park pawl to neutral if the vehicle has no power but needs to be placed in neutral. This includes the 11-13 Jeep Grand Cherokee shifter your showed the parts diagram of. The cable is for the mechanical park disengagement lever that is located in the console as part of the shifter.

    Like the drive/park by wire ZF 9 speed, a similar system used with the 845RE where there is no mechanical connection between the shifter and the transmission. A park lock piston in the vavle body is used to control the position of the parking pawl. The linkage is spring-loaded to default into the park position. As stated above, there is a lever to manually disengage the transmission from park to Neutral.

    Mike
     
    #17 Mike V., Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  18. DirtyLarry

    DirtyLarry Member

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    The rentals I've had were all 2.4's. When you pop the hood you can see a shift cable going to the shaft on top the trans coming from an electic box over in the driverside corner. The system looks much like the Electo-motor cruise contol modules used on the 88-03 GM trucks.

    Good info...much different than the GM and Allison's I'm used to. With all of the electronics internal to the trans on the ZF/845 has me less concerned than having an external encoder motor moving a selector shaft as with the 200 4 cylinder cars mentioned above and many others on the road.
     
  19. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    On the 2.4L equipped 200, you are more than likely looking at the manual park disengagement cable thinking it is a traditional shifter cable. There is only one lever/cable on the transmission.

    Mike
     
    #19 Mike V., Dec 19, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  20. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator
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    Just to be clear:

    [​IMG]

    Image is from Mopar repair documentation for Safety Recall R08 on the 2015 Chrysler 200 equipped with the 948TE transmission and Manual Park Release Cable (MPR).

    Just to be clear, all three of the Jeep Grand Cherokee shifters you posted pictures of in your first post are fully electronic shifters. The difference is the first shifter you posted is for a different transmission, the NAG1/W5A580, while the other two are for the 845RE/8HP45/8HP70.

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
    DirtyLarry likes this.

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