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2016 Jeep Patriot 6 speed automatic - fluid

Discussion in 'Compacts: Renegade, Patriot, Compass, Caliber' started by AllanC, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    I want to drain and flush the automatic transmission fluid in my 2016 Jeep Patriot as preventative maintenance. Vehicle has 39,200+ miles on the odometer. The transmission is supplied by Hyundai (6F24 powertech) and requires its own unique fluid. Currently the only source that I find for this fluid is through Chrysler dealers. Part # is 68171869AB and retail price is $71.00 per gallon; I will need 2 gallons. I have tried Amazon but do not find this particular fluid listed.

    That price seems somewhat outlandishly high to me so I have been looking for a less costly source. I find dealerships that will sell it for approximately $50.00 per gallon and to that add a modest delivery charge. Unfortunately I have tried two online Mopar parts sites and have had my orders canceled. Reason given is it policy to NOT ship liquids to a customer. I am thinking the online vendor must have encountered a bad experience shipping fluids to a retail customer.

    Does anyone know of a source / dealership that would sell and ship 2 gallons of this fluid to an Oklahoma address at a discounted price?
     
  2. link3721

    link3721 Yes, This MK Goes Off-Road
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    That seems pretty extreme for a vehicle that young. I've got the CVT in my Patriot but only do a transmission filter change every 50k to 60k miles (need to have it done soon actually) but not an actual flush. A full fluid flush is generally NOT recommended unless there is a serious issue. What's the owners manual recommend?
     
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  3. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    The owners manual for my 2016 Patriot/6 speed says to use Mopar SP-IV M trans fluid.
    It also says, unless driven in extreme conditions, (which mine is not) the trans is sealed for the life of the vehicle and the fluid installed at the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the life of the vehicle. For extreme use, the maintenance schedule says to change it at 6 years or 60K miles.
    I won’t ever be changing it.
     
  4. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    This is correct information from the Patriot service manual. However no fluid lasts forever. That is a marketing ploy to induce a customer to buy this "low / no maintenance required" vehicle. I keep and expect a vehicle powertrain to run at least 300,000+ miles without any need of a major overhaul. If the powertrain design is good and fluids are replaced and kept clean then this longevity is doable.

    I ran a 2003 Dodge Neon for 308,000+ miles and the original engine was still in very good condition ( minimal oil consumption) at that odometer reading. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for the 40TE automatic transaxle. I did a complete fluid drain and filter replacement at 50,000 miles and a few days before doing another transmission fluid and filter replacement at 108,000 miles the transmission self destructed. Shavings from the clutch linings plugged the internal lubrication ports in the overdrive 4th planetary gear set caused the transmission to literally ground itself to death in metal shavings.

    After that expensive transmission overhaul I am very attentive to transmission fluid condition. Hence the preventative maintenance of changing transmission fluid on this Jeep. Now the transmission is sourced from Hyundai and time will tell if it is a well designed and long life unit. I want to add as much care as possible from my efforts to avoid the Neon transmission fiasco.

    Looks like I will have to pay the high price the dealer wants for the fluid. ATF+4 which was the unique fluid required in the first Chrysler computer controlled shifting automatic transmissions was expensive until Chrysler licensed others to produce the fluid. Then the cost dropped to a more reasonable and competitive level.
     
  5. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

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    I see no alternative fluid that I would trust. I can't find a Chrysler MS-xxxx (Material Standard) number for it either. It is likely a fully-synthetic ATF with red dye.
    The filter requires removal of the transaxle and it is accessed inside the bellhousing. Hyundai really didn't design this transaxle for servicing (tampering?).
    I would try to look at doing the fluid change as 'peace of mind' and that you are saving money by doing it yourself.
    No dipstick? Add the same amount that comes out of the drain.

    The CVT was the same way when Chrysler signed the contract to incorporate its use. JATCO stated that the unit was not to be serviced by Chrysler dealers and that it was a 'take-one-out, put-one-in unit'. After awhile, JATCO did allow filter service.
    We took one apart in class, just to see how it worked. It is simpler inside than a conventional transmission,
    There are 2 filters inside the CVT. One has a Mopar part number, the other doesn't. I found a generic one at a parts store.
     
  6. MPE426HEMI

    MPE426HEMI Well-Known Member

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    It’s everybodys right to choose to do whatever they like, it their money after all. But I will say this, I’ve never changed a trans filter or fluid on any Mopar I’ve owned, ever! It’s not a recommendation, just my fact. I’ve never had any problems for the life of any vehicle I’ve owned.None of my vehicles were severe service however. I’ll stick with the “Owners Manual Marketing Ploy” on my Patriot.
    I don’t know what’s special about the trans fluid in that 6 speed, but it’s out there to buy, you just have to spend the money. If it’s piece of mind you want, just go buy it at the Dealership. Your saving the service charge by doing it yourself. I wouldn’t cheap out now by guessing at fluids.
     
    #6 MPE426HEMI, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  7. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    I have found discussions on the internet that Valvolline MaxLife and Valvoline Import multi-vehicle fluid is compatible. But as your research indicates there still is no alternative fluids validated by Chrysler as meeting the design specifications. And the issue gets more complicated as the transmission is built and supplied by Hyundai so any cross fluid recommendation would have to come from the manufacturer.Since the Dodge Dart and Jeep Patriot are no longer manufactured Chrysler is probably NOT using this Hyundai transmission in any vehicle???

    Not being able to access the filter easily is another setback. So all one can do to extend and prolong the life of the transmission is to exchange the fluid. I guess I am the "odd ball" and want things to last a very long time and want ease of access and reasonable prices to maintain mechanical parts!

    I have to be careful with this vehicle and any maintenance performed. The vehicle was purchased as CPO (certified pre-owned) and came with an extended powertrain warranty -- 7 years / 100,000 miles. If there is any serious, mechanical issues with the engine and/or transmission I cannot leave any wiggle room for Chrysler to deny warranty coverage by using questionable fluids. That part I can accept.

    Looks like I will have to remove the plastic belly pan to gain access to the underneath side of the transmission. The battery and battery tray are located immediately above the transmission filler / breather port. But one can add fluid through the level check plug on the side case. I will want to flush the transmission cooler assembly in front of the radiator. I will have to look and see if the cooler lines use a rubber hose and hose clamp on a nipple fitting. The cooler line attachment on the transmission appears to be banjo type fittings.

    The concept of a CVT (continuously variable transmission) is excellent but implementation in modern vehicles is a challenge. You are correct in that a CVT transmission has fewer internal parts. There is no need for multiple planetary gear sets and bands / clutches to engage and disengage gear sets. The engineering challenge was the tapered V type belt used to transmit rotation from the driver to the driven pulley. Current design is to use a steel belt that is composed of many, small v shaped parts that mate to the tapered surface of the driver and driven pulley. There is a torque limit on these belts. That is why the CVT was only used on lower horsepower and torque 4 cylinder engines.

    Thanks I C for doing your research.
     
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  8. Bwilson79

    Bwilson79 New Member

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    Thanks for the info. I plan on doing a drain and fill this weekend on my 15 Patriot with 61k miles. It's hard to find any info out there on this.. Would it be easier to fill the trans through the level check plug?
    Also, I plan on just adding the same amount of fluid that drains out, but would still like to check the level.. do you have any suggestions for this without a dipstick of course. Thanks Again!
     
  9. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    In the Jeep Patriot application it appears the battery and battery tray sit on top of the vent / fill port on the transmission. You can use a suction gun loaded with clean fluid and push replacement fluid into the transmission through the level check port on the side.

    I would suggest as you mention to record and measure the amount of fluid drained from the transmission. Then replenish with new fluid in the exact same quantity. Then drive the vehicle to get the transmission up to operating temperature. On a level service remove the check level plug. If fluid exits in a small stream then the level is correct. If no fluid exits add fluid, drive to get fluid to operating temperature and repeat procedure to check.

    This is a youtube video on draining the fluid from the same transmission in a Hyundai Sonata. Access to the ports seem more readily available than on the Jeep Patriot.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE1YjdOUeZk
     
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  10. Bwilson79

    Bwilson79 New Member

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    Thank You!!
     
  11. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    Just a HEADS UP on trying to find the proper fluid for this transmission.

    So I called several CDJR dealerships in NE Oklahoma today to locate the proper transmission fluid. It seems most parts departments do NOT stock this item in either quart or gallon containers. With no requirement from the manufacturer to drain and flush this Hyundai based fluid, I am guessing it is not kept in local inventory.

    I asked if it could be ordered. Response was yes but there is a minimum quantity. If you order quart containers you must take 16 quarts. If you order gallon containers you must take 4 gallons. At $19 per quart or $76 per gallon this transmission maintenance is getting expensive in a hurry!

    My final call was to a CDJR dealership in a small town 45 miles east of me. The parts manager indicated he would sell me 12 quarts at $15.12 per quart. I could take just 12 quarts and the parts department would keep the other 4. So this fluid maintenance is going to cost about $200 in fluid. If the vehicle were out of warranty I would definitely be looking into using Valvoline Max Life universal fluid which claims to be compatible for this Hyundai based transmission.
     
  12. ImperialCrown

    Level III Supporter

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    Remember that the torque converter will still have fluid in it. Even if you can drain it in place, it will still be half full.
    This fluid change may only take about 6 quarts of fluid. You could drain, measure and refill using a clean pan just to get an idea of the amount of fluid required. Then purchase what you need.
    Many Asian transaxles use an ATF/coolant heat exchanger mounted on the case instead of an air cooled arrangement mounted by the radiator. If this how yours is?
     
  13. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    From a Hyundai information site it indicated that complete fill (empty transmission and torque converter) requires 7.5 qt of fluid. Normal replacement fill once the transmission cooler and torque converter are full is about 5 qt. I expect to only get about 4 - 5 qt upon initial drain. I am going to attempt to open the transmission cooler return line to the transmission and flush another 1 - 2 quarts into a catch container. That should help a little bit in getting more fresh fluid into the unit.

    But as you indicate there is no way to flush the torque converter completely short of removal and disassembly. Through the late 1960s automatic transmission torque converters had 2 drain plugs spaced exactly 180 degrees opposite. You could remove those and empty the converter housing. But that access feature became extinct just like the dinosaurs on the earth.

    The transmission cooler is integrated with the air conditioning system condenser. The top 1/3 of horizontal fins and tubes are for the fluid cooler and the lower 2/3 of fins and tubes are the heat exchanger area for the refrigerant. At least with this arrangement a transmission cooler leak will not allow engine coolant to enter and wreak havoc with the transmission. The 2008 Dodge Avenger I owned had a similar arrangement.

    6F24 transmission Cooler A C Condenser.jpg
    I believe vehicles that incorporated the CVT (continuously variable transmission) into the powertrain used an engine coolant to transmission fluid cooler mounted on the case. With the CVT you do not have numerous friction clutches engaging and disengaging and slipping. The software controlled slippage is the reason for a significant heat load and requires a substantial heat exchanger for cooling. Since the CVT does not have all of the clutches that cause heat generation, a small transmission to coolant heat exchanger mounted on the case is sufficient???
     
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  14. Tin Man 2

    Tin Man 2 Active Member

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    Why not check with a Hyundia dealer on their price for the fluid ? Bet it's a bunch cheaper.
     
  15. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    Looking online the retail price of Hyundai 6 speed automatic transmission fluid SP - IV is about $19.00. per quart. Mopar fluid retail price for the 6 speed automatic SP - IV is $18.00 per quart. So I doubt if I would find any savings by making a purchase at a Hyundai dealer. Also if I used a Hyundai equivalent fluid, I am introducing "wiggle room" for the Mopar bean counters to deny a claim because I did not use a "Mopar fluid". Other issue I encountered was that even if I was willing to pay full retail price or more per quart minimum purchase was 1 case / 12 quarts. I would only need about 8 quarts for a drain and flush but most dealers will only sell an entire case. No one wants money tied up in unused inventory.

    Yesterday I did find a CDJR dealer 45 miles away from my location that ordered a case at fluid / 12 quarts. Parts manager sold me 8 quarts (he will keep 4 for shop use) at a discounted price of $15 per quart. Sometimes you can find a dealership that thinks "outside the box" and really does want to make a sale to a customer!
     
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