Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by CDJSalesPro, Aug 23, 2018.
I.e., comfort and convenience over function and performance.
Off Topic a bit ...
Still somewhat difficult to hear and see the Model Name : Rebel = Pick-up Truck .
The needle is currently moving toward the Truck, slowly; but I still remember the Rambler Rebel mid-size car for AMC.
As you were .
Would not a factory lift for Trailhawk have essentially the same effect as the air suspension, as in limiting suspension travel and adversely affecting the geometry? Grand Cherokee has independent suspension, which is not easily lifted. Would a factory installed lift come with different suspension parts to account for the change in geometry? I suppose a minor lift may not necessarily require much modification...I had considered installing a Frankenlift on my Liberty, on Norm’s recommendation, but it still changes the geometry and runs the risk of destroying the CV joints.
Depends on what's done. They could use adjustable shocks and revised springs that would have a better off-road feel as well as adding a sway bar disconnect, all without having to change cv joints and shafts. A sway bar disconnect seems like one of the easiest ways to address suspension travel in the IS Jeeps (that's why I've got them on mine).
Does the Rebel have a sway bar disconnect or is that a Power Wagon thing?
Great question - it needs the air suspension on a Grand Cherokee being that a non-solid-axle off-roader is a bit of a paradox in itself. Quadra-Lift supplements the inherent weaknesses that a unibody, independent suspension, low ground clearance, vehicle has.
The folks at All J products where I would’ve bought the Frankenlift were pretty confident that it wouldn’t cause any issues with the CV joints, but it was a modest lift 1.5-2 inches. Anything more than that they did not recommend. The kit included struts, shocks and springs IIRC.
Sway bar disconnect can affect suspension travel quite a bit for sure. I’ve seen videos of a Renegade with the bar disconnected and the difference was night and day. Someone had posted it in one of the threads previously.
I agree with the point that it's better to be able to delete air suspension from the Rebel if not desired. However- and I apologize if this is too off-topic- but it seems per build/price that it's also *not* possible to add adaptive cruise control. That seems crazy. Can't imagine spending $60k on an otherwise loaded Rebel and not being able to option ACC. Be great if FCA and GM for that matter too (e.g. Colorado/Canyon- want the off-road package? No heated side mirrors for you!) allowed builds with maxed-out lux/convenience/safety features with no compromise in off-road features as well. Ford seems to get this right per F-150 / '19 Ranger build/price. Not a Ford troll, just an observation from wasting time on build/price on various sites lately.
Air suspension up here in Northern Ontario (and the Northern border states I'd imagine too) is a pain in the butt!! In the winter weather we have at least 5 Rebels and Grand Cherokees sitting in our lot waiting for repair. The cold weather and lack of a desiccant filter type of system KILLS the set up here. Dunno if the engineering folks could get some sort of fix in the works but its a real issue up here.
IMO the air suspension’s biggest issue is what @Ryan describes: its highest clearance setting makes it so stiff that it kills your articulation. In fact, you have to decide if you need clearance or articulation, because you won’t get both. From an off-roading perspective, this renders the benefits of the air suspension useless.
Add to that winter durability issues...and no wonder Ram is making it optional.
I believe @link3721 mentioned that first. I just have concerns about the durability and customization potential of an air suspension, enough that I would purposely avoid buying a vehicle equipped with one.
But I agree: there are a handful of good reasons for making it optional instead of including it with every Rebel if salespeople can provide a clear picture of the benefits and drawbacks of the air suspension.
FWIW, the public perception is that the job of the salesperson is to explain the benefits of whatever the dealer has sitting in the lot at that moment.
Personally, I never rely on the dealership to explain to me the benefits of the off-road features on a Jeep. Unless I am speaking with a salesperson who happens to be an avid off-roader, salespeople are normally unqualified to do it.
I was referring more to the Rebel with that statement. A lot of people buy trucks to customize and lift around here and they need to be aware of the compromises of an air suspension.
Yup. Provided the dealer has a mix of Rebels with and without air suspension in inventory, it will certainly give salespeople the freedom to provide shoppers a more fair-and-balanced assessment. When the air suspension was mandatory, all salespeople could do was try to push its purported “benefits”.
Is FCA slowly backing away from air suspension due to questionable benefits and durability issues?
One could argue air suspension still has a role to play, as a luxury feature that provides a smoother ride. But it would be best used on cushy versions like Grand Cherokee Summit and Ram Limiteds, not as a feature with off-road benefits on Trailhawks and Rebels.
I have met owners of older Land Cruisers who gutted out the hydraulic suspension and put a lift kit in place. Of course they paid a lot less for the behemoth as a used vehicle, and are more interested in off-road prowess and durability than a cushy ride..
When you have the rare opportunity to meet a Land Rover owner on a trail, it is amusing to hear the endless stories of the air suspension cr*pping out and placing the high-end SUV in limp mode...150 miles from the nearest dealer.
On the Grand Cherokee, at least the non-Trailhawk models, there are on-road benefits to the air suspension, such as lower entry height when parked and lower ride height on the highway which improves efficiency and aerodynamics. So it has some features besides the off road ones.
It's funny when looking at Grand Cherokees on the lots. You have to get used to the ones sitting the lowest being the AWD ones.
The only way I can get my Wrangler closer to the ground is if I air down to 10 PSI...or get it into a big trench
We talked about this several times on here... it was even in the initial press release of the 2019 Ram 1500 from NAIAS, shouldn't have been a shock...
Also new for 2019, the Ram 1500 Rebel is even more capable, now available in Quad Cab configurations and featuring new 18-inch wheels with 33-inch Goodyear Wrangler DuraTrac tires driven by an electronic-locking rear differential. The Rebel predecessor came standard with Ram’s Active-level four-corner air suspension and a one-inch suspension lift. While air suspension is still available, the new Rebel comes standard with coil spring suspension and a one-inch factory lift. Newly designed Bilstein shocks feature remote reservoirs to keep the shocks cool and work with unique rear suspension geometry (Rebel and 4x4 Off-road Package) to keep the tires in traction. Rebel also includes Hill-descent Control for more off-road prowess. Hefty tow hooks feature wide bumper openings to ease use and the underbody protection features skid plates on the transfer case, steering system, oil pan and gas tank.