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65,66 Barracuda vs. Mustang

Discussion in 'A Body: Duster, Valiant, Dart, etc' started by voiceofstl, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. voiceofstl

    voiceofstl Well-Known Member

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    "That goofy wheel bolt pattern was a curse on older A bodys."
    That was a very minor issue, most folks proberly didn't even know it.
    The reverse theads on the lug nuts is a differant matter.
     
  2. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on where you lived.

    Here on Earth, everyone knew about the odd ball wheel bolt circle, and no one liked it..

    Folks who had a flat, and no spare, soon found out they had an odd ball.

    Those who slid into a curb and bent a wheel or two soon found out they had an odd ball.

    Others who wanted different wheels for winter found out they had an oddball.

    As mentioned, one owner, like many, wanted 14"wheels and even back then they weren't common.

    Many others who wanted a custom wheel had very little choice.

    Everyone knew Mopars had reverse threads.

    A body owners were dismayed when they found out they had an odd ball wheel.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  3. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    The Mustang was a great idea at the time. There was no visual connection to the Falcon or anything else. It was sexy on the inside and sporty on the outside. It was inexpensive and got good fuel mileage. And it was a fun car easy to drive. Bucket seats and floor shift. [they list a bench seat but I've never seen one.] They sold a lot of convertibles. Not many fastbacks. Fastbacks were only for kids in the back seat. Adults would hit their heads on the roof. The bigger 200 ci six with the automatic trans was a nice car. Handling was average for the time. 4 lug wheels and 6.50-13's or 6.95-14's were it for the 6 cyl cars. ------ Only the V-8 cars came with the 5 lug wheels and 10" brakes. A special handling package was optional on V-8 cars and standard on the 271 HP model. Manual disc brakes were available. Tire chains and even 'lake pipes' were factory options. The 271 HP handling was above average. The Ford Shelby Mustang quickly became the [Carroll] Shelby GT-350. A race ready 306 HP version of the 271 HP. Harsh ride, but much faster than a 271.

    The big block was put into 1967 and later mustangs. It started in 1958 with a 332, 352, 361 Edsel, 390, 410 Merc, and 428. They were also used in trucks. They made high performance motors of 352, 390, 406, [2] 427's, [2] 428's, and a racing only 427 single overhead cam motor.

    The first Barracudas looked like Valiants with a funny roof. There was a lot of bad press about the monster rear window. 'A million dollars to replace' or 'It's like sitting in an oven when your in the back seat'. The newly styled '67 added some pizzazz to the car. Nicely styled cars with a conv., hardtop, or fastback. It was in '68 [?] when the 'Formula S' was born that the Barracuda became 'known'. Fancy rims with Goodyear Bluestreaks were talked about. And then ------- the 340. That was the game changer. Had the '65 came out with the '67 body, it would have been a closer race.

    The Mustang was designed and built in 18 months [per Wiki]. Are you listening Sergio?
     
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  4. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    The 1965 Mustang used the instrument cluster from the 1964 Falcon. It had 2 gauges at each end, fuel level and engine temperature, idiot lights and a horizontal speedometer. Auto enthusiast magazines at the time referred to it as the Falcon cluster. In 1965 the GT option gave a round speedometer with 4 round gauges for fuel, oil pressure, ammeter, engine temperature. Exterior styling was unique in itself.

    Lee Iacooca was a manager at Ford in the 1960s and is attributed as the Father of the Mustang. He was an engineer by training and education but had a real knack for marketing and sensing where automobile demand would go. He sensed that rising prosperity along with the arrival of the "baby boomers" of driving age, there was an unfulfilled void for an inexpensive but sporty looking car. His idea was to put a sleek, long hood, short rear deck body on an existing power train (the Falcon). His marketing team predicted an initial first year sales of 100,000 - 125,000 units. The "bean counters" at Ford told Iacocca that he would "lose his shirt" on the car as he would not be able to recover all of the inherent design and development costs. Iacocca laughed. He was using an existing, proven power train which had no new development costs. The only additional cost was the body. Initial base retail price for 6 cylinder coupe, 3 speed manual transmission with a standard heater and no other options was $2368.

    The base car was inexpensive by 1960s standards but it did not make a lot of profit for Ford. But Iacocca wisely offered many options to help buyers customize the vehicle. The typical Mustang was sold with about $1000 of options and that made the big profit for Ford. Again Iacocca marketing genius at work with this car.

    During the first 2 1/2 years of production (March 1964 thru Aug 1966) Ford built and sold 1,288,577 Mustangs (coupe, convertible, fastback). About 13% were convertibles and 8.7% were fastbacks and the remainder coupes. The fastback did not debut until the fall of 1964 and was not available during the first 6 months of production.

    On introduction day April 17, 1964, Ford took orders for 22,000 cars. Within the first month of production Ford devoted the entire assembly line in Dearborn MI to Mustang production. In July 1964 the San Jose assembly plant was converted to Mustang production. And in early 1965 an assembly plant near Trenton NJ was converted to Mustang production. Iacocca and Ford hit the jackpot with this car. That success earned him the title as president of Ford division.

    That same marketing savvy helped him at Chrysler. He used the front wheel drive K car platform for the first 1984 minivans. Also he saw a market for a smaller but very capable truck and the Dakota was born in 1987
     
    #24 AllanC, Sep 28, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  5. CudaPete

    Level 2 Supporter

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    Ford SOHC was a 429 and it was available for the street in the 69/70 Boss 429 Mustang.

    Barracuda Formula S came out in 65 with the 273 -4V solid lifter motor.

    The first 64-1/2 Barracudas still had a Valiant emblem on them.

    My father's 65 Mustang convertible still draws the ladies.....
     
  6. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    Fords SOHC was a 427 from the FE family, not related in any way to the Boss 429.

    The Boss 429 was part of the 385, or Blue Crescent series, with its pushrods and Semi Hemi design.

    I believe all 273 V8's had solid lifters and, unusual for a production Engine, a single plane intake manifold.

    Mustang soon switched to regular Ford bolt circle wheels, A bodys continued on with their "curse" for years.

    Mustang 001 was sold in Newfoundland Canada by accident, but Ford got it back by trading the owner a new 1967 VIN 1,000,001 with a built in TV!!

    Earliest Mustangs were 1965 models, none were titled as 1964 or 1964 1/2.

    During 1964 Ford advertised, "buy a new Mustang this year, and its still new next year".

    Same thing with 1969-70 Mavericks, but no one cared much.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  7. pt006

    pt006 Active Member

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    I only saw one SOHC 427. It was at the drag strip mounted in a rail job. They might have used them in the Thunderbolt Fairlanes. Not sure.

    A guy I knew bought a Boss 429 Mustang. Waited a while for it to get delivered. Said it wasn't as fast as he had hoped. The motor was really, really stuffed in there. But like the Hemi cars, it needed a little 'tweaking' to make big horsepower. This motor was built for NASCAR because the regular 427's couldn't match the power of the Hemi cars.

    My 1967 valiant had a 273 2V motor. It had solid lifters. A tough motor. And it had a 7 1/4" sure grip.

    Thanks for the 1965 first year Formula S update.
     
  8. GaryS

    GaryS Well-Known Member

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    I was in sales at a Chrysler Plymouth dealership in a medium sized town in a rural state when the Barracuda arrived and I distinctly recall the public’s response…at least in my part of the country.

    As was usually the case when new models were introduced, the showroom was packed when the first one arrived, but we had only one car to show. It sold immediately and then we had only pictures to show potential customers. It was several days before we received another and short supply would be a problem the entire model year.

    Each dealership was limited to the number of cars they could receive and we could have sold dozens more. Some dealers in small towns around us had a few they could part with, so our sales manager bought all he could from those willing to deal. It was never enough to meet demand, while the local Ford store could order all the Mustangs they wanted.

    Most salesmen didn’t want to mess with the smaller cars because of the lower commission and they didn’t want to waste time talking to people who had difficulty financing a new car, so they concentrated on big sedans. Barracuda buyers were almost exclusively young. I was 21, loved Mopars, and spoke the language of the buyer, so I sold about half of our allotment until I left the job just as the 65’s were arriving.

    Lots of older customers looked at the car, but couldn’t handle the big rear window. They didn’t complain about the looks, but were concerned about heat generated inside the car. Since very few cars were sold with air conditioning at the time, it was a legitimate concern, despite the factory’s claim of specially treated glass to reduce the sun’s effect. We installed AC in a very few Valiants, but I don’t recall a single Barracuda having it from the factory, or us installing it. It was an expensive option the young buyers chose to do without.

    Contrary to some current opinions, I don’t recall any complaints about the Valiant badges and the need for a distinct identity. Valiants were well respected for economy, reliability, and performance with either a six or V8, so the name wasn’t an issue. Unlike the Mustang-Falcon, Valiants and Barracudas were obviously the same car with different trim features, so the badge wasn't important.

    For the folks who liked performance, the Barracuda easily beat the Mustang. Our sales manager was a street racer and loved taking a 4-speed 273 out to find Mustangs to race.

    Marketing was not limited. Radio and TV were filled with ads, but with so few cars to sell, it didn’t do much good to advertise them. Everyone knew the “Baccaruda with the four-speed shick-stift” ad. By the time availability improved, many potential customers had bought a Mustang.
     
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  9. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up from someone who was there at the time, summed up nicely.

    To Chrysler the Barracuda was a niche car, to Iaccoca the Mustang was his career maker.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  10. 68RT

    68RT Well-Known Member

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    It truly fit his idea of a good car. Long hood, short tail.
     
  11. Glopart

    Glopart Active Member

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    Here's a couple solid lifter stories to add to the earlier post about my 65 Barracuda.
    As was common practice back then I added a set of those under dash aftermarket gauges to keep tabs on the engine. The kit came with plastic line to hook up the oil pressure gauge. Not trusting the plastic I figured I'd do one better and use copper. The gauge worked fine but the ticking of the solid lifters traveled thru the copper line and into the gauge which seemed to amplify it like a speaker. Drove me crazy. I finally put the plastic on.
    Next I had a couple valve lash adjuster studs that kept going out of adjustment. They were supposed to be some kind of self locking thread w/o lock nuts. I removed the offending studs and being short of funds and not knowing a real fix I resorted to some Pittsburgh engineering. I placed the studs on the concrete and with a well placed hammer modification I restored the self locking feature to the threads. Problem solved.
     
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  12. Bearhawke

    Bearhawke Things happen for a reason

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    Bolded here:

    Ford always had the 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern wheel on any V8 Falcon/Mustang/1965 down Comet; that BC didn't become standard till 1971 on even the six cylinder Mustang, I remember a six cylinder 1970 vert in Calif with the smaller 4 lug pattern.

    Now for irony: apparently the most popular Dodge brand car sold today is the Challenger...................
     
  13. edlin

    edlin New Member

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    I thought the corvair was first to be marketed for women,
     
  14. RalphP

    Level 2 Supporter

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    Google "La Femme" sometime.

    RwP
     
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  15. GLHS60

    GLHS60 Well-Known Member

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    That's a good one!!

    Dodge LaFemme

    Thanks
    Randy

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. edlin

    edlin New Member

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    a very nice dodge,color would have to go
     
  17. Bearhawke

    Bearhawke Things happen for a reason

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    I've seen a La Femme in person: dumbass me forgot to grab a pic of it, this were here in Arizona a few years ago.
     
  18. geraldg

    Ad-Free Member

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    It also came with accessories for women like a hatbox and umbrella and other things.
     

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