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9 Speed Transmission for the Dart?

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by BernieG, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    Here is what most people don't realize, with the nine speed (as in my Cherokee V6) there is a driver selectable knob with Auto, Snow, Sport, and Mud modes. The tuning of the transmission in this car is selectable. If I want crisp shifts and a six speed comparable mode I put the selector in Sport mode. The revs are kept higher in each gear of this mode as the transmission keeps the motor, as seen on the tach, in the 3000 to 4000 rpm range and the top gear 6th gear is what you see in the 70+MPH speeds. You can still throw the select lever and access 7th, 8th, or 9th manually. But in Sport mode you lose the Mpg that the Auto mode gives you. I have verified that on my Cherokee to my satisfaction. In auto mode you get more mpg because the program lets the gears work at 2000 to 3000 rpm range, or lower. Nothing more dramatic than that. The transmission works as it should. You just need to spend a little time with it to learn how it is programmed to work. So, to me all this hubbub about the transmission is taken with a grain of salt. Take some time and learn how it works, that's my advice. So, it's very flexible, fun to drive and by no means dead.
     
    #21 humdrum, Mar 3, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  2. Robert Johnson

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    Actually they do have a lot of substance since Edmunds has tested LT vehicles and none of them have had a 9sp that performed as advertised......any brand.
     
  3. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Sport mode usually also holds gears too low and causes dragging. What I would like is for sport mode to bring faster kickdowns and maybe ever so slight differences in the gear mapping - right now it's more of an all out setting, on every car I've tried, Chrysler to Volkswagen. But really, different people have different habits, and a sport mode doesn't do the trick.

    Edmunds is not credible to me.
     
    Robert Johnson likes this.
  4. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    I old all you guys a year agoit aint provramming izsues and you did not eant to llisten guess you all were wrong thenas well as now,how does fhe zunce [email protected] now peopls? Letfhe apolovies begin now..........
     
  5. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    Heck you told them 3 years ago. You and I had an in depth discussion on it two years ago.

    No matter how many times I try to serve it, very few are willing to be humble and eat it.

    [​IMG]

    Mike
     
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  6. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    So%y i was wrong....:thinking that i Had done it less than 3 years ago....i had to chececked my records and found 1out my [riginal report tochrysler wss o'er3 years ago. Sorry i w$as mistaken.
     
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  7. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

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    No need to apologize :)

    You were 100% correct from the beginning.

    Mike
     
    #27 Mike V., Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
  8. CherokeeVision

    CherokeeVision Well-Known Member

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    And often in real off road situations, testers discover that the behavior of these modes do not match what is needed for the selection.
    I'm talking tests and review in off road oriented magazines not street and/or passenger car oriented tests and reviews.
     
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  9. Robert Johnson

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    May I ask why you dont think Edmunds is credible? I have been reading them for years and years (back when they were Insideline) and found them to be relatively fair. They have had some good luck with Mopar LT cars and some not so good. I tend to like them better than the CD or MT because about half of their LT cars they actually buy, not take as loaners.
     
  10. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Because I compare their statements with my reality.
     
  11. JoeCanuck

    JoeCanuck Well-Known Member

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    If the transmission is so complicated that it requires training to use it right...it's wrong. The vast majority want their automatic to be completely seamless; get in, turn on the car, put car in drive....then drive. That's it.

    An automatic transmission, (for most people), should be completely intuitive and consistent. It should do the same thing every time. The learning curve is idiotic. If the car is consistent, people will get used to it. Nobody needs a transmission to be a mind reader.

    Put in drive, it shifts itself. Punch the throttle, it kicks down. Ease up, it shifts up. Slow down, it shifts down. Stop, it shifts to first and will creep when brake is released.

    That's pretty much how automatics have worked for half a century and that's pretty much how people, (at least in N.America), expect it to work today.

    Maybe instead of getting engineers and experts to test the vehicles before putting them into production, get a pack of prospective buyers to test the vehicles.

    Remember back when the customer was right? If that gets forgotten, prepare to watch your former customers buy from the guy who still remembers.
     
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  12. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    It doesn't require user training. The word “training” means its internal learning function. But perhaps you are right and that is really not a great idea in itself.
     
  13. JoeCanuck

    JoeCanuck Well-Known Member

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    Some problems come when different drivers use a vehicle that has already adapted. A new driver may feel like the car isn't reacting properly to his inputs...that something just seems wrong, or having to go through the adaptive process after the pcu has been reset.

    It just seems to me like technology for its own sake, as does the 9 speed.

    I think the priority should be to make whatever you market to at least work reliably all of the time, even if that means using older tech, rather than perform intermittently but at the bleeding edge of the envelope.

    My brother has a 2005 Caravan with a 4 speed that works seamlessly. I can barely feel the shifts. It performs predictably and reliably and the same every time I drive it. It shifts the same as every Caravan I've driven...(probably a half a dozen or so). I actually enjoy driving the vehicle and can see why so many millions of them have been sold to happy customers.

    The darned thing just works. That should be the goal, (with some variations based on vehicle type), for everything FCA sells. Make it work before worrying about making it fancy.
     
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  14. TheMan

    TheMan What color are the clouds in your world?
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    Sorry dave boat [email protected] sailesz onfhat,aifh the azvwnt og wlect!oni c zgiftinvand fhe 604..........
     
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  15. humdrum

    humdrum Well-Known Member

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    So, why aren't we still driving three speed automatics? The progression has been 3 speeds, 4 speeds, 5 speeds and six speeds etc.
    I guess the point is that as times change and cars evolve, their needs evolve. Some needs may be for more power and speed vs economy as power and weight of the vehicles change over time.

    To make a declaration that the 9 speed is dead misses the whole point of what was trying to be achieved, based on the needs and given characteristics of the vehicles. It is only one solution to this problem. There may be other solutions that are also viable.
     
    #35 humdrum, Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
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  16. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree , just make it shift normally . You dont have to make them overly complex . Somehow they used to work fine before they felt they had to have a computer shift them .
     
  17. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    I think 9 speeds is overkill. Even our 6 speed in the van is overly busy . The older 4 speed was a much better shifter than the new 6 speed .
     
  18. Stratuscaster

    Stratuscaster Vaguely badass...
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    Define "normally."

    On a long ride, with you as the engine, across different terrains - would you rather have a 3-speed bike, a 10-speed bike, or an 18-speed bike?

    What is driving the push to more speeds? Efficiency and emissions.

    If they could get higher levels of both from an old 3 or 4 speed, we'd still have them.

    "Overly busy" is the "new normal."

    Want less shifting? Get an electric car.

    Not trying to be a jerk - but IIRC, 6/7/8-speed automatics have been in place for 10 years or so, and 5-speeds longer than that. As noted before, people complained when we went from 3-speeds to 4 as well.
     
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  19. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    I remember when I was about to turn 14, and lobbied for a new bicycle to replace the 20-yr old hand-me-down Columbia coaster brake bike. My dad insisted it was unnecessary to have multiple gears. To prove his point, he got on the bike and rode it halfway up the hill by our house. He was 47 and in good shape. He wobbled and turned around, came back down and with a beet-red face (from exertion) said, "OK, you can have a *5-speed* (instead of the 10-speed I wanted). Four months later my older brother was allowed to get a 10-speed.
    There is a HUGE difference between a 5-speed bike, a 10-speed, the 21-speed that I have now, and the 24-speed that my wife has.
    You will NEVER attain the same gas mileage with a 4-speed auto that you do with a 6-speed, 8-speed or 9-speed. You can't get the spread of gear ratios and still have decent power with a 4-speed, can't keep the engine in the power band like you can with more gears.
     
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  20. Bob Hohn

    Bob Hohn Active Member

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    Bob Lincoln is correct. But, I agree with all the others here that the ZF 9spd is just a TURD. It ruined my experience with my 200C, to where I now have only Toyotas. I don't really blame Mopar here, I think ZF over promised and has yet to deliver. The 9spd ZF is just an awful transmission.
     

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