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a couple of newb questions

Discussion in 'EEK! - Every Extended-K Car' started by TheJ, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Thanks guys, I ordered a new water pump and radiator hoses and I'll check the shaft seals. Is it worth buying the timing belt tensioner tool for $30 or is it alright to check it by turning the belt 90* and checking the belt location on the camshaft sprocket?
     
  2. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    I did mine with the 90 degree method. That tool is sort of hard to come by, and I think most of the people who followed the instructions on the site used the 90 degree method. It seems to work fine.
     
  3. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    I did the 90 degree belt twist, no tools. It's fine more than 17K miles and 1 1/2 years later.
     
  4. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    Well, considering he will have the timing belt off (which means the AC bracket is already pulled back to get the belt through), there is no need to remove the pump housing or the bottom water pump hose. It is simply a matter of zipping off 10 (or ?) small bolts and putting on a new front with the same small bolts. It takes a couple of minutes when you have the front torn down. The intermediate shaft sprocket is a loose press and can be popped off with a couple of small claws. If the seal is seeping, it has to come off anyhow.

    I've done it both ways and it is much easier to do when doing a timing belt change. Obviously, if you were just doing a water pump without the timing belt change, then removing it from the block would be the easiest.
     
  5. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    I got an adjustable cam sprocket and would like to know what timing would be good to get a boost in performance, I'm thinking about 3-5 degrees.
     
  6. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    Somewhere in that region should push the torque curve down noticeably, which is what you want. Start with 2-3 degrees advanced, and tweak it gradually. Keep in mind that you are increasing compression, so be watching and listening for detonation. I wasn't getting anything at 7 degrees advance, but, as I said, that was endangering the headgasket. When you have to replace the HG, go with a MP gasket and bolts, as these support higher compression ratios.
    Where did you get the sprocket and how much was it? We have some data on the adjustable sprockets, but they're from the early 2000's and are out of date...
     
  7. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Thanks for the info. I got it from fwdperformance.com for $129. It's from a company called Fidanza and its adjustable + or - 12 degrees.
     
  8. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Hey guys, I got started on the timing belt and I can't seem to get the A/C bracket off, do you have any tips or tricks?
     
  9. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    That very well may be one of the tougher steps for a first timer. There are a number of bolts in the block head on the front side of the car (engine left side) and a nut with stud on the engine front. Once you have all the bolts out of the side, remove the nut and pull the assembly forward to clear the stud. The belt will need to slip between the stud and the bracket.

    As I recall, one of the bolts is accessible from under the compressor and is hard to see. You will need just the right length 3/8" extension. Getting that one in later is also a PITA.

    It is also possible to lift the compressor off the mount by removing the 4 nuts, although not totally necessary. That might help you see all the bolts.

    A Haynes or Chilton Manual should give you a good view of the bracket and bolts. There are also many other resources including one here on Allpar for the job. The AutoZone repair info probably has it too.

    EDIT: Here is a picture that I found online. Note that you are not removing the bracket, only loosening it enough to pull it forward and clear that stud.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    The A/C bracket has 5 bolts under the compressor (one in each corner and one in the center), and it also has two bolts on the right side (the 'dogbone' bolts) that have to be removed - or one bolt and one nut, perhaps. But there are fasteners on the side, and you have to undo the engine mount not only to get the new belt on (and old one off, if it's not cut), but also to get at these fasteners. I believe the A/C idler pulley bracket has to come off, too. See step 7:

    http://www.allpar.com/fix/timing-belt-22.html
     
  11. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    I just noticed Bob O's instructions imply that the bracket needs to come off. That is a lot of extra work. Once all the bolts holding the bracket have been removed, the bracket (with alternator still attached) will move forward (i.e. toward the passenger side of the car) about 1-1/2 inches which provides plenty of room to slip the belt around it.

    I never really read his writeup before since I have replaced these belts on about 15 2.2 and 2.5 4 cylinder engines back from 1983.
     
  12. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Thanks guys, I'll give it a try tomorrow. I was going to take the alternator off to get it tested, lately it hasn't been charging at idle. Any other things that may cause this? Sorry if it's off topic.

    I really appreciate the help and patience guys.
     
  13. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    The bracket has to come off because the engine mount has to come apart to slip the new belt on, and the engine mount bolt goes through a small bracket that bolts to the A/Ccompressor bracket.
     
  14. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    Once the engine is supported from below (block under oil pan), the engine mount through bolt comes out and the mount is removed. The L bracket comes off. The AC bracket which has been completely unbolted, just slips forward over the stud. That allows you to get the belt between the bracket and the block and avoids the additional effort of completely removing that bracket.

    EDIT: changed AC mount to AC "bracket" for clarification and to match terminology in the diagram.

    Seriously... the AC bracket does not need to be removed. I just looked at the AutoZone repair info and it even says to remove it. That is really a lot of extra work and not necessary. I've been doing these for years and not even sure where I got my original instructions from. The same applies to the 2.2 original block, 2.5 tall block, and 2.2 common block.

    About the only difference I recall was that the old 2.2 blocks had a bolt (perhaps the stud) that, when removed, allowed engine coolant to drip down the front of the engine (i.e it was tapped all the way through to the water jacket). That was a nuisance. I've never had that problem on the newer 2.5, 4 cylinder engines.
     
  15. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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  16. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Yup. But the bracket still has to come off. Reason is, the A/C bracket has a stud on the 'front face' (passenger side) of the engine that you have to lift it over in order to remove the bolt from the engine mount that is necessary to slide the timing belt in and out. You can't get that engine mount bolt off without removing the L bracket and then the A/C bracket. It's required to get access to the bolt. I'll look at my car again tonight, but I believe that's the case. I would not remove the bracket if it weren't necessary. The A/C bracket can't slip forward, because the stud goes through the side of it.

    You may be referencing older versions of the engine.
     
  17. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    Same engine.
    When I say slip forward, I am referring to the front of the engine, or the passenger side. With all the bolts removed from the AC bracket (including the nut that is on the stud), the bracket can be moved toward the passenger side. The mount will clear the stud (i.e. required about 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inch movement). That provides enough space to be able to slip the belt in between the AC bracket and the front of the engine.

    I get the feeling that most people are doing it the way I describe, but instructions that state that the bracket must be 'removed' seem to imply that the 'bracket must be removed from vehicle'. That is not necessary and a lot of work. We just need a clarification to prevent all that extra work.

    Perhaps others who have done this job a number of times can speak up and post their experience here. Cass... are you out there :).
     
  18. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    But since the compressor must be unbolted from the bracket so that the 5 bolts behind it (which hold the bracket to the engine) must be removed, it's not clear to me what effort is being saved. 7 fasteners must be removed, as well as the engine mount.
     
  19. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    Yes.. that's true..... all the fasteners must come off. But to remove the bracket, you would need to remove the alternator which includes removing the harness wires. That often requires removing the overflow container. It's just extra work

    BTW, I am generally able to remove all the AC bracket bolts without taking the compressor out of the bracket. I'm not sure it saves much time since the Nippondenso compressors only have 4 fasteners holding it to the bracket. For me, the less that has to come off, the better.

    I use to do a lot of timing belts on these Chrysler 2.2's and 2.5's. For some of the close family, I would not charge for my labor, only for the parts. I wish I had a picture of one I did on a LeBaron GTS Turbo. That belt had about 3-4 strands of fabric (7/8's of the way broke across) when it was driven to my house. The belt had slipped several cogs and the engine had such reduced power that I could barely get it up the driveway. It took about 1 hr and 45 minutes to change and that young lady was pleased as punch when she took off. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    Ah, see, I don't have to remove the harness from the alternator for this job. I leave the harness connected (battery disconnected, of course!) and simply set the alternator aside on top of the oil filter.

    I think there is still a 5th bolt behind the compressor in the center of the bracket. It may be for my 84 and not the later engines, but I do think it's there in the 92 and 93. A dealer did a belt for me once and neglected to re-install that bolt (as well as plug the A/C back in, or even finger-tighten the compressor bolts).
     

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