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a couple of newb questions

Discussion in 'EEK! - Every Extended-K Car' started by TheJ, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    Yes, there is still a bolt right in the center of the bracket behind the compressor. It can be accessed with a 6" 3/8 rachett extension (15 mm short socket) from under the compressor. There is just enough room to reach it. The tough part is getting it started straight when re-attaching the bracket. I put the bolt back on the socket and feed it in under the compressor, hoping it doesn't fall out of the socket in the process. Otherwise. removing the compressor from the bracket helps with that one bolt.
     
  2. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    I would just as soon take the thing apart. I hate having to fiddle around in tight clearances, and the bracket really isn't that hard to remove. For me, it would end up being 15-20 minutes of frustration before taking it apart and doing it the way the FSM suggests. If you have an impact gun/power nut driver/something along those lines, I think the time difference to just take it all apart is so small that it's worth saving the frustration.
    The alternator is something I would have tested, but if it checks out, don't worry about it until you get the car running again. Same with the sprocket, put it on and set it to zero degrees so that you can make sure the engine runs properly before you start making adjustments.
     
  3. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    I did just remove the A/C bracket and it wasn't hard to do so at all once you take that dog bone bracket off. I am going to get alternator tested and figure out what to do with it after that. As for the cam sprocket I am planing on setting it to zero to get it timed and running correctly. When I do decide to advance the timing which direction do I need to go?
     
  4. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    Move it AGAINST the direction of rotation of the engine.
    It's counter-intuitive, but think about it this way: If you were to put a mark on the cam sprocket and one of the valve cover, and then looked at where the cam was in relation to the marks, you would see that moving the cam sprocket in the direction of rotation would cause the cam to "lag behind" its position when the paint marks line up as opposed to its position before the cam was moved. In this case, the cam is retarded in relation to the crankshaft. Retarded cam timing results in very poor performance, often resulting in black smoke and an inability to rev much beyond about 2500 rpm. Moving the cam sprocket against the direction of rotation causes the cam to "run ahead" of its base position.
    Note that moving the cam has not changed the relationship between the intermediate shaft and the crankshaft, so ignition timing has not changed. Unlike the turbos, though, these engines do not have knock sensors and do not automatically adjust the timing to compensate. You need to be more vigilant about knock, which can destroy the engine. You can choose to retard the cam timing or run a higher octane fuel to combat this. That being said, I had no knocking whatsoever at 7 degrees advanced, and no signs of detonation when I eventually had to do a head gasket.
     
  5. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Ok, just so I fully understand what you're saying: If I'm looking at the cam sprocket and the engine rotates clockwise I would then adjust the outer part (with the teeth) of the sprocket counter-clockwise (or against)?
     
  6. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that's it. Make sure you install it at 0 degrees, though... does it have some sort of mark to indicate advance?
     
  7. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Yeah it has individual degree marks on the outer ring and an indicator on the inner part but doesn't say if its advance or retard that's why I asked.
     
  8. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    I never noticed a significant improvement by advancing the cam timing on a 2.5 TBI and ultimately went back to the stock cam sprocket after experimenting for a few years. I was just looking at that adjustable cam sprocket in my garage the other day, wondering if I should put it back on the Spirit and set it for 3 degrees advanced. Most of my driving is below 40 MPH for my commute and stop and go. I rarely get out on the highway with the old Spirit.

    You may be able to gain a slight amount of off-the-line torque improvement, but the sacrifice will show up when you need a burst of acceleration from 40 to 65 MPH, like when trying to get up to speed on an Interstate entrance lane.

    The adjustable cam (or the offset keys) were popular with the turbo setups where you were looking to improve low end torque prior to the benefit gained from the turbo when the engine speed increased.

    For some reason, I got more benefit from advancing the cam timing on the older 2.2 engines. My sprocket is set up for the round tooth belt, so I could never use it on the 1988 or earlier 2.2's with square tooth belts.

    If your State requires tailpipe emissions testing, you may not pass with the cam timing advanced.

    In any case, it is fun to experiment and we will be interested to hear your experiences.
     
  9. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    A mechanic once changed a timing belt for me, and 10 months and 6,000 miles later, I failed emissions for the first time ever. HC was double the reading it had always been. It took me two months to figure out that he had accidentally advanced the cam timing by one tooth. I had absolutely no change in power or gas mileage at all, but it did boost my compression from about 125 psi to 150 psi. So stressing the head gasket is a possibility. I set the timing back to spec and easily passed emissions.
     
  10. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested to see how the engine would respond to a freer-flowing exhaust (improves top end power) with an advanced cam (moves torque curve down). 7 degrees is probably too much, but somewhere in the middle might give acceptable results. Either way, you were going to end up spending more money to move the torque curve around with just a cam. I think you'll find that advancing the timing makes the car more peppy and fun to drive, the only reason I reset mine was because of headgasket stress.
     
  11. John Wood

    John Wood Allpar Legacy

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    The cam sprocket has 40 teeth IIRC. 1 tooth off would cause a 9 degree advance or retard, depending on which way it went. That's fairly significant.

    I wonder what the max range is on the new variable timing engines.
     
  12. TheJ

    TheJ New Member

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    Luckily where I live I don't have to get tested at all only OBDII cars get tested. For the $130 the cam sprocket cost its not that much to fiddle around and see what it does. If it doesn't do anything I'm trying to find a turbo shadow and could use it on that eventually. Thanks for the info guys.
     
  13. B10alia

    B10alia Well-Known Member

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    Same in MA, I remember getting our '95 Caravan inspected when I was a kid. The shop had to hitch it up to this huge computer via the tailpipe and then run the engine through a variety of cycles to figure out what was coming out the tailpipe. Now, I think they can evaluate cat performance by just looking at the O2 sensor data from the car itself. OBII monitors so much in the way of HC emissions, too, in terms of detecting vacuum leaks and whatnot. The Spirit doesn't even get her hood opened, and as long as there's no broken glass, plastic, holes or visible smoke, I pass. I'd be interested to see what kind of emissions I'm actually putting out, since I'm right on the cusp of OBD-II with the car being a '95. I still get lumped in with the 2bbl-318 Ramchargers and those mid-70's Ford pickups that never seem to die.
     

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