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AC Compressor Recommendation

Discussion in 'EEK! - Every Extended-K Car' started by dc8flyer, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. dc8flyer

    dc8flyer Well-Known Member

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    Those three pictures I posted above were the pictures associated with the Sprectra condenser on AutoZone,7-3344. Not sure what pics you get but the two black ones I poster from AZone were the ones I beloeve you said were dual flow. The light silver colored on is the true pic of 7-3344 parallel flow. Sumit Racing has four pics of the 7-3344 which is why I called them to make sure the 3344 was parallel flow.

    I ordered one and will install it tomorrow. I hope it returns 30 percent more cooling, not that it was too bad but certainly not r12 cold.

    Thanks
     
  2. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    My comment was that a parallel flow condenser will give 30% better efficiency or heat exchange; not necessarily 30% more or lower cooling temperatgure. This helps to compensate for the lower heat capacity of R134a versus R12. You are on the proper track.
     
  3. dc8flyer

    dc8flyer Well-Known Member

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  4. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    I wish you'd done my conversion. The guy who actually did it, a former chrysler dealer mechanic, didn't replace half the seals, according to the current dealer mechanic who went through the system to find the leak. But if it's the compressor leaking, well, at least that's easier to replace or fix than the evaporator! (Which went bad in just about every 1995-99 early-R134a car, due I assume to bad testing. Our Neon lasted pretty well but my parents' Corolla needed a new evap at 40,000 miles. Heard the same story from people with German cars, Chevys, Fords, etc. The R134a is apparently pretty bad for certain aluminum alloys; but that problem seems to be ancient history now.)
    (What ever happened to the Aussie “hydrocarbon” solution? Not that there are NON-hydrocarbon refrigerants, but theirs wasn't one of the fancy ones, it was something simpler.)
     
  5. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    I have not heard about the Aussie hydrocarbon solution so some research is in order. It appears that Australia is phasing out the use of HFC / hydrofluorcarbon refrigerants such as R134a and R404. So the phase out is for refrigerants used in automobile systems and commercial applications, occupant environment cooling and commercial retail refrigerant for food preservation. HFC refrigerants have zero ozone depletion potential but have a high GWP / global warming potential as a green house gas. Australia is moving towards R290 which is industrial grade propane as a refrigerant. It avoids the problem of a high GWP. But there is some reluctance to use this refrigerant in commercial applications. What happens if there is a leak of R290 in a building occupied by people? Could a leak produce a sufficient concentration level to cause an unexpected explosion?

    I am thinking hydrocarbon refrigerants have not been adopted in the United States because of the fear of a "Hindenburg" type incident. That was the German airship / dirigible filled with hydrogen that exploded unexpectedly in New Jersey in 1937. But an automobile refrigeration system filled with hydrocarbon refrigerant would only have 5 - 10 ounces at most in the system. If a fire erupted it would not last long.

    We all have vehicles that get parked inside in a closed garage at times. If the vehicle has a 20 gallon fuel tank and it has about 10 gallons of liquid with the unfilled space filled with concentrated fuel vapors, that seems to be a more potential hazard than a small amount of refrigerant? And today with the move to R1234yf refrigerant which has a low level of flammabilty are we starting to accept some risk up front to get a longer term environmental goal (reduce green house gas effect)?
     
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  6. dc8flyer

    dc8flyer Well-Known Member

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    A couple pic's of the new compressor (third time was the charm) and the new parallel condenser.

    Compressor.JPG Conderser.JPG
     
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  7. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    The condenser appears to be a tube and fin, not the parallel flow condenser that was discussed. Hopefully this is the dual path unit that you presented in a picture. Hopefully you will get good cooling with this setup.
     
  8. dc8flyer

    dc8flyer Well-Known Member

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    It was the one ordered from AZone 7-3344 that summit racing said was parallel flow. Perhaps the 7-3344 isn’t parallel flow.
     
    #28 dc8flyer, Apr 10, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  9. Dave Z

    Dave Z It's me, Dave
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    Thanks, AllanC, for the investigation. That’s a better explanation than I’ve heard before. The fears of R290 make sense, though I suspect it's safe for refrigerators and stationery air conditioners; I wouldn't want it in a window unit!

    Mercedes, of course, made the same argument re R1234yf, but since they were the only people to be able to cause a fire, I think most everyone assumed they were faking their tests. Really, nobody could reproduce their fires, and since R1234yf became common, there have been no disasters I'm aware of. I think it was just their way to save a few bucks, and piss off France in the bargain.

    One problem for leakage is the minimal standards of quality and training for manufacturers and installers. I think we all know about automotive A/C issues with regard to insufficient testing and cheeping out on materials when the switch to R134a was made, but window units are often low-priced garbage now, expected to last a max of ten years and sometimes less. That's really not acceptable, but there's no penalty for making leaky junk, especially when Haier, the primary maker of said junk, owns so many brands. “My cheap Chinese Haier leaked greenhouse gases and failed after just two years. I'll replace it with an Amana [owned by Haier now]. Oh, that's garbage too. I know, I'll get a GE. GE is a good American brand [refrigeration unit owned by Haier].”

    BTW, over the years, free-market conservatives have convinced me that the real solution to all this is putting the disposal and environmental costs of any product into the purchase price. If you want a plastic bag at the supermarket, fine; pay 7¢ per bag to handle recycling and/or cleaning the things out of the ocean later. No ban required! Want a cheap Chinese trinket with your kid's hamburger and fries? That'll be 50¢ for the disposal fee in addition to the 7¢ for the toy. Among other things, I think that would resolve the issue with unfair garbage taxes, where I have maybe one small bin of trash per week while my neighbor has seven, because they use almost entirely disposable dishes... and we both pay the same for garbage pickup... and if you make people pay for the bin, at least 5% of the people will take their excess trash and toss it into someone's commercial Dumpster, or in a town garbage can, or into the river. With this solution, nobody pays for garbage pickup — or, rather, we all do, but it’s in the purchase price.

    But that’s not really on-topic, is it? I'm due to get my a/c looked at, if the mechanic is looking at the compressor, is there a particular seal that leaks, or is it basically new compressor time? People do like the look of the old V-type compressor.
     
  10. Bob Lincoln

    Bob Lincoln "CHECK FAULT CODES"
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    A common area for compressor leakage is around the shaft, so look behind the pulley for oil and dirt. The other place, of course, is at the fittings. And I once bought a reman compressor from Four Seizens that was so poorly assembled, the screws holding the front cap of the compressor to the body were still sticking out over 1/2 inch, not even close to seated.

    As far as trash, our city went to Pay As You Throw to address the inequity of everyone paying the same, while others dispose of far more trash. We have to use orange bags purchased in local stores with the city emblem, at $2 per bag, to put our trash out curbside. I can fit 2-3 30-gallon bags of trash inside each one, so we only use one 'city bag' per week. There is no limit on how many you can put out.
    We have 'free' recycling, and a couple of years ago went from a small 18-gallon bin to 95-gallon barrels. First barrel is free, additional cost $53 each. We fill one every 2 weeks.
    So our trash disposal costs us about $130 per year, and people still bitch abput that. When I point out that neighboring towns cost double or triple that, I get attacked personally, ridiculed, etc.
    But our landfill closes next week, and there is NO PLAN in place yet - despite over 20 years of notice and 3 extensions from the state. It's expected that the city will hire a firm to truck the trash from a (to be established) transfer station, to a landfill in upstate NY. We don't know the cost yet, but hints are that costs will triple.
     
  11. twankowski

    twankowski Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing your stories. They are both awesome and tragic on some accounts. I currently do a lot of work with the tanker community and as cool as the KC-46 is (will be...), the -135 is just such a beast! Love the vintage stuff.

    On the expansion valve, the only reasons I routinely replace them are 1) I always re-seal everything, and 2) they are dirt cheap. With three 80's FWD cars in the stable (and I'll probably get another one or two), I tend to hoard extra parts if I get a good deal. I got four expansion valves on eBay a few years ago for $20.00 with free shipping. Also got an AC Delco reman compressor for $40.00. Still in the box; might go on the Reliant one of these days. No other reason.

    Affirmative on the small-tube parallel flow condensers. The small tube size supposedly renders them difficult to flush and the industry considers them disposable. From the Four Seasons website:

    "Vehicle manufacturers recommend that the condenser be replaced whenever the compressor is replaced. While older Tube & Fin style condensers can technically be flushed, metal shards from a failed compressor can get lodged in the cylindrical tubes and restrict refrigerant flow, diminishing the heat transfer capabilities of the condenser and A/C system. Newer style, mini-tube condensers cannot be flushed and should always be replaced along with the compressor."

    Might just be Marketing 101, though...
     
  12. ImperialCrown

    ImperialCrown Moderator
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    The old cast iron Chrysler Airtemp RV2 compressor had a spring-loaded gas seal behind the pulley that wore and failed fairly often. They weren't too bad to replace. The telltale sign was an oil streak across the underside of the hood where it threw oil.
    Some RV2 compressor clutch pulleys were fitted with a large steel flywheel to absorb vibration and clutch engagement inertia.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. dc8flyer

    dc8flyer Well-Known Member

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    Our base was the third base to get the CFM’s back in ‘86, I believe. They could actually out climb an F4. The problem the 135 had with the new engines was the fuel the tankers could now hold.

    With the old water injected engines the weight was still restricted. The new engines allowed max tankering of fuel but the tank bladers had never been filled up with that much fuel. They discovered upon filling up the tanks that there were numerous holes and fuel spilled out everywhere. Not to worry as tax payer money is always plentiful.

    During an air show up in Grand Forks, a light tanker pulled straight up over the field. I thought it odd he continued to climb out of sight without ever nosing over to RTB. Turns out with the light weight, CG aft, excessive thrust, they could not get the nose over. They continued to climb to give themselves some altitude and space from the crowd before running out of airspeed and then kicked the rudder over and came back down to earth, safely.

    TheN there was the Vnam crew chief that wanted to take a picture of the napalm lighting up as they kicked it out the rear as it descended. He was tethered but the shock wave rocked the boat, so to speak, and the chief ended up flying behind the aircraft, tethered of course, screaming for help. The ac commander, all pro American, had to go back and reel him in.

    Not sure if he ever got his picture or not.

    Then there was the blond female that was tagged out of the zoo for greatness assigned to our squadron. So got selected to a position well above her qualifications. There crew ended up going to Saudi where she decided to go exploring on her own. Problem was she was wearing cut of shorts, flip flops, and a tube top.

    She actually created an international incident that went all the way to the State Department.

    She ended up being a general regardless. Faulkenberry was her name.
     
  14. Doug D

    Doug D Virginia Gentleman

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    Our county hasn't instituted a fee if you dump your trash (and recyclables) at the landfill yet though I think it may happen. Dumping is "free" to county residents though you have to have a permanent sticker ($23 every year - included in the personal property tax bill) displayed on your windshield. Commercial companies are charged $5/ton - much of which comes from out of state. The county has a request into the Dept of Environmental Quality to raise the height of the dump 20 feet (will extend the life of the landfill by 20 years). Don't know if that has been approved. There is one transfer station in addition to the landfill. Stafford county to the west of us has instituted a $5/car fee to dump (county residents only). Hard to say what my cost per year is - $23 plus whatever fuel it takes to transport to the landfill (I go every 2-3 weeks depending). It's either that or pay $30-$50 month to have a weekly trash service.

    The old landfill was closed when the new one was opened. Then all the trash from the old landfill was transferred to the new landfill. The old landfill was not lined and much fluid waste leached into the immediate area of the old landfill. A 90' baseball diamond was then built on the site of the old landfill.

    The money generated by the new landfill has paid for several county projects - new fire engines, additions to the middle school, new county administration building and several other projects are spoken for in the next 5-10 years. Yet they will not use any funds to pay for a new sewage treatment plant needed to replace the old one that serves the courthouse area. It is not cost effective to bring the old sewage treatment plant up to code and will cost $15 million to build a new one (so the PSA tells us - separate entity from the county though the board of supervisors oversees its operation - go figure). The PSA is already $38 million in debt and the county is $100 million.
     
  15. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    I went to the Summittracing.com. I entered vehicle information for a 1987 Dodge 600 SE with 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine. I queried for air conditioner condenser. The one and only one displayed is Spectra Premium 7-3344, parallel flow condenser. Image posted below.

    Spectra Premium Condenser Dodge 600.jpg

    There was no listing that showed a dual path condenser as displayed below. I searched Autozone and O'Reilly auto parts and both of these vendors show the Spectra Premium parallel flow condenser 7-3344. O'Reilly has a different marketing name of Murray but the condenser is the Spectra Premium. No indication of the dual path condenser listed at Summittracing, Autozone nor O'Reilly.

    Dual Path Flow Condenser.jpg

    I am curious. Can you provide the link to AutoZone that shows the dual path condenser for a 1987 Dodge 600 SE with 2.5 liter 4 cylinder? I would like to review the listing.
     
  16. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    I concur with the assessment made by ImperialCrown. The RV2 shaft seal looks very similar to the shaft seal used on York twin piston A C compressors used by Ford in the 1960s and early 1970s. The seal afixes to the compressor crankshaft and rotates and is held against a flat sealing plate by a spring. That sealing plate must be perfectly flat, smooth with no scratches. After many rebuilds of the compressor this sealing plate may become compromised.

    If you continue to use the RV2 compressor be aware of Chrysler making design changes in the internal oiling system. Rebuilders often do not get all the proper parts reinstalled. This causes catastrophic failure. Follow this link.

    warning about rebuilt RV2 a/c compressors (at https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/warning-about-rebuilt-rv2-a-c-compressors.16037/ )
     
  17. dc8flyer

    dc8flyer Well-Known Member

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    Here is the link. It has two silver pics that would be the parallel flow and two black pics that show a dual link. I posted this link and pictures in messages 7 & 12 because I was confused by the different condenser styles of the same part.

    https://www.autozone.com/cooling-he...a-premium-a-c-condenser-7-3344/114478_11861_0

    We order one from Advance and it turned out to be the black colored style, dual path which happened to be what was already on the car. The shop is going to try to make it right but we got the last 3026 part from Advance which was suppose to be a parallel. So no matter who you order from you wont get a parallel from any of then regardless of the picture they post.

    Summit is out completely from all vendors. I have a call to Spectrum HQ in Canada but they wont be open until Monday.

    Right now I dont believe anyone makes the parallel any more and will just send you left over dual paths.

    Advance shows the same picture as a parallel but then describes it as a 6mm Piccolo but sent us a dual path. You cant trust anything you see is what you are going to get.

    https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...nser-3026/18893076-P?searchTerm=a/c condenser
     
  18. 85lebaront2

    Level 2 Supporter

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    What I did on my 1986 convertible was to get a system from a 1992 Plymouth Sundance, it had the newer compressor and condenser in it. The newer condensers are a multipass and are much more efficient that the older ones. My 1985 convertible I was unable to keep the compressor belt from being destroyed either from slipping or fluttering against the right motor mount. The problem in that case was the T2 radiator/intercooler, the fan only pulls air through the radiator and there is really not much to force the air through the condenser in heavy, slow traffic. The Sundance had the Denso compressor also. I later was able to find a 1994 Shadow at Pick-n-Pull with compressor and the NLA R134 hoses.

    I converted my cooling fan from the single radiator only puller to a pair of two speed pusher fans modified from a Ford Contour unit. The SBEC or the AC compressor on turns them on low, still more air than the single fan, even the 5 blade plastic one would move. High is controlled by a high pressure fan switch from a 1993 Grand Caravan (factory R134 system). The compressor has the containment switch that shuts it off if the pressure is too high.
     
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  19. AllanC

    AllanC Well-Known Member

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    I now understand the confusion. Autozone has 2 differently constructed condensers but listed under the same part number. This was done to clear inventory and is misleading. This probably happened because of the age of the vehicle and there is not much demand for parts for 30+ year old vehicles. Thanks for followup.
     

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