AF: AN: 2015 Chrysler 300 officially revealed | Page 32 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AN: 2015 Chrysler 300 officially revealed

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by Dave Z, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,138
    No, it's your opinion.

    The sales data shows the 300 SRT to be a sales dud from 2012-2014.

    The sales data shows luxury and premium cars sell quite well without high performance engines installed.

    Sorry, but it's true. Toyota built the Lexus brand on premium/luxury, not on high performance engines or models.

    I'm glad to hear the 300 SRT may live on. That should quench your thirst for the time being.

    Mike
     
    Jerry Simcik likes this.
  2. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,654
    Likes:
    1,186
    How much more are you willing to pay for the 6.4L than you are the 5.7L? (Just the motor, nothing else.)
     
  3. AutoTechnician

    AutoTechnician Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,778
    Likes:
    1,329
    Yup.
    LS400? 250 HP
    ES 300? 185 HP
    SC 400? 250 HP
    SC 300? 225 HP

    Sure, not anemic by mid 1990s standards, but certainly not performance oriented either. The "performance" version of the SC300 was the lighter, less luxurious more stripped down twin-turbo Supra.

    Even many contemporary BMW and Mercedes models were quite low on power. I mean, you could get something like a Mercedes E class with well under 200 HP until the turn of the century.
     
    #623 AutoTechnician, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  4. oh2o

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes:
    4,004
    Was researching some of the SRT production numbers recently and the 2012 model year was not too bad for the 300 SRT (~2300 units for north america). For 2013 they ran mostly exports, with only a little over 700 for North America. Still digging up market breakout info for 2014, in which they built about 1300 total.
     
  5. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,138
    700 units for 2013, ouch.

    Mike
     
  6. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes:
    20,972
    Mike, my response was to the discussion "what should the TOP Chrysler 300 be".

    You are dead wrong in your interpretation of sales data: having a top performance S-Class and E-Class helps sell tons of pedestrian S-Classes and E-Classes. You will never see the performance version cranking 660 HP sell in large numbers, but it doesn't have to because that's not what it's supposed to do; its role is to look pretty on the cover of the magazines and lure in customers, most of whom end up buying a more mainstream version due to their budget constraints, their MPG or insurance concerns, or just because the don't like the way it rides or sounds to serve as a daily driver.

    You are correct that Lexus now doesn't have proper high performance versions --well, it sort of does, but then it really doesn't... If you look at the original Lexus ads from the early nineties, their claim was that their LS400 flagship had more power than comparable Mercedes at the time. They even had an ad of a LS400 claiming to be faster than a Porsche. For ten years straight, Lexus was top selling luxury brand in America; it now is a distant third, behind Mercedes and BMW. We have tracked the gap to the role Lexus top sedans are failing to play. And, unless it stops being fixated on hybrids and $30,000 tarted up Toyotas, we see Lexus falling further and further behind.

    Acura is a perfect example of a brand without performance versions. Output maxes out at about 400 HP which, in this day and age, you can get on anything not even aspiring to be performance. Whenever they introduce a "performance" package (e.g., Type R) they barely manage to squeeze an additional 5 HP...like that's supposed to impress anyone.

    Acura's lineup is comprised primarily of one single engine: the 3.5V6. That's it. If you want more, good luck. By contrast, Mercedes engines range from 4-cyl to several V6s, to V8s, V8 bi-turbos and even V12 and now V12 bi-turbos in the new S600. Acura used to be the third best selling luxury brand, this year is fifth, behind Audi and Cadillac, and falling fast.

    Chrysler will find it much easier to sell tons of V6 300 with a low-volume top-dog version with the performance to match.
     
    #626 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
    HotCarNut likes this.
  7. dartndodge

    dartndodge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    241
    Thankyou MoparNorm, someone who understands what the Chrysler Marque is all about.

    Tho in fairness, I believe most people under 50 yo dont appreciate what the real Chrysler is, particularly after the "New Chrysler Corporation" of the 1980s and those K cars...........

    I too, believe NoOne will be cross shopping Italian Alfas and Mazas (the two shouldnt be in the same sentence, they are Different cars, with different markets and enthusiasts, again), with an American Chrysler.

    Noone will compare an American Luxury car/s with Italian sports cars.

    Once upon a time, there was the "Chrysler Imperial", not just Imperial.......it was a Chrysler!!

    FCA has it wrong if they think their niche Italian cars will make it in the USA.
    What they need to do, I believe, is resurrect Chrysler as a Premium, innovative brand, with the 300, + one above that (Imperial), a Large 2 door executive hot rod car, maybe V10/hybrid, RWD mid size, Bling version of the Grand Cherokee...

    Leave the boy racer cars, the bread and butter cars, vans, trucks to Dodge.
    Fiat, can be what it always was, cheap and nasty, niche type....it will never be a volume seller in the US, or anywhere really. (except Italy maybe Brazil).

    Still these FCA execs get paid Millions, Im sure they know what they are doing......;).

    Oh, and to add, I watched a bit of Top Gear last night, it may have been a repeat, but they showed a photo of the "New" Chrysler to be sold in the UK...............
    It was some tiny rebadged Lancia thing, ugly as sin, They were having a right ol laugh at it, a New Chrysler!! ...the Rebaged Lancia underneath, which is really a rebodied Punto, which as everyone knows is a Fiat 500 underneath.........they were certainly taking the P** out of it....as they should, it is an abomination.
    Tho Im sure the 3 people who bought one would be happy.
     
    #627 dartndodge, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
    wtxiceman likes this.
  8. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes:
    20,972
  9. toasteroven

    toasteroven New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    76
    Likes:
    67
    Are you able to share any details... say... Canadian 2012 info? :)
     
  10. oh2o

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes:
    4,004
    But more than 2,000 for the export market. Very similar with the Jeep SRT - higher production for 2012my north america vs exports, and 2013 more exports vs north america.

    In other words, for the first model year of the new gen models they concentrated on domestic builds, and the 2nd year they fulfilled export demand.
     
    UN4GTBL likes this.
  11. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes:
    20,972
    Very well said, Norm.

    And, I would add: if Chrysler played its cards well, it'd be surprised how quickly it can restore much of Chrysler's former glory. One of the things we see is that, despite how abused the Cadillac name has been over the past 25 years, and despite a whole generation having grown up without Cadillac as a top brand, the name still retains a surprising amount of residual equity.

    But Chrysler would have to do many things right: articulate a clear, viable brand vision to customers; and show its commitment to compete, and beat the Germans at their own game, by developing compelling sedans that make imports look what they really are: over-engineered, over-priced, overrated, fastidiously unreliable little cars.
     
    #631 aldo90731, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
    HotCarNut, carcharger and MoparNorm like this.
  12. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,138
    First, this is NOT the "what should the TOP Chrysler 300 be" thread. It is the "2015 Chrysler 300 Revealed" thread. Technically you are off topic ;)

    Second, stop trying to force everyone to agree with you. I respect that you want Chrysler to move up and be a super luxury car, but I don't agree that it should happen, especially the way you want it to happen, regardless of how much you try to lecture me. You are ignoring what others are saying to you about requirements and just shoving your opinion at us over and over and over again.

    IIRC, the 2012-2014 300 SRT did not sell well compared to its 2006-2010 older brother and sales for the 300 along with that entire segment are down. We have been down this road many many many times before. Additionally one could argue that the lower cost, smaller engined, yet similar looking Varvatos edition of the 300 is proof that you do not need a high performance engine to have a very nice looking and very well appointed car that sales well. In fact we had that discussion multiple times on this forum.

    What you and others seem to forgetting is that the 300 is a very nice large car. It is not classified as a luxury car like a Mercedes or a Lexus despite our wildest hopes and dreams. Sales for the 300 are compared to the Taurus, Charger, Lacrosse, and the Impala first and foremost. That's reality and you can continue to lecture me but look up any "luxury full size" car sales data and you will not find the Chrysler 300 listed.

    We get it, you want Chrysler to be a brand it is not... You want change? Buy a whole bunch of stock and start demanding for change. Complaining about it over and over and over again here is not going to get anything done.

    So again, what are the requirements of the vehicle and what engines can meet those requirements. It's not about our hopes and dreams, it's about program requirements. Just because the engine fits does not mean it needs to be installed in the vehicle. There are lots and lots of i's that need to be dotted and sometimes all the t's simply cannot be crossed.

    Based on news dropped a few posts back, it looks like you may get your new 300 SRT after all. I hope you do.

    Mike
     
    serpens likes this.
  13. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,138
    Right and personally I was hoping for news from you because previous 300 SRTs always came a bit later, like the following model year. I just had a hunch that the backlash on the lack of the SRT model would come back at Chrysler.

    Mike
     
  14. Jerry Simcik

    Jerry Simcik Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,654
    Likes:
    1,186
    So I guess your definition of what an opinion is differs from the dictionary? Okay...

    You look at data, you draw an opinion (you called in an "interpretation") based on your experience. It's more valid than most others here, but it's still, by definition, an opinion, as Mike said.
     
  15. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    986
    Likes:
    1,055
    Very well said. I'd like this post twice if I could. :p
     
  16. oh2o

    Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2001
    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes:
    4,004
    There were 269 2012 model year 300 SRT's built for Canada
     
    UN4GTBL and toasteroven like this.
  17. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes:
    20,972
    Obviously you didn't bother reading your own link: the first definition reads NOT based in fact.

    Stop making things up and accusing others.
     
  18. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes:
    20,972
    Defeatism like this has Chrysler doomed, indeed.
     
    valiant67 likes this.
  19. Mike V.

    Mike V. Mopar-nac The Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    26,427
    Likes:
    22,138
    I don't need to use labels. It is what it is...

    Mike
     
  20. aldo90731

    Staff Member Level III Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,114
    Likes:
    20,972
    You may not, but it doesn't make it any less applicable.
     

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.