Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by aldo90731, Aug 28, 2020.
We might get our second BEV crossover, after Renegade, from PSA/Chrysler.
EMP 1 and EMP 2 are newly developed platforms that are strong and light, with electrification possibilities built in to the design. Wikipedia got a page for both.
So it makes very good sense. I guess on the other hand, that gasolin engines in PSA 's line up in the future, will use FCA's GSE and GME units.
No, platforms don't work that way. There is no platforms with "built-in" electrification possibilities.
Here is the thing. You have ICE/MHEV platform subversion and you have PHEV and/or BEV subversion. BEV and PHEV subversions can be better or worse executed. It depends on where are batteries placed and how big batteries can be. Have they eaten trunk and/or fuel tank volume? In this respect both CMP and EMP2 are at very low evolutionary step, they are no better than for example FCA's Small Wide platform.
What sucks with both CMP and EMP2 is packaging. They do not offer much combined leg room for a given wheelbase or car size. They are at the bottom in that regard.
If they intend to use those in the states, the legroom issues need fixed. We don't need another 200 boondoggle.
AFAIK CUSW based 200 didn't have legroom issue. Headroom != legroom
Actually it had more combined legroom than Sebring/200.
200 had legroom once inside. But entry/exit with long legs was problematic.
Third, as Compass is also getting a BEV version.
FCA already has a clean-sheet BEV architecture for FWD vehicles in production (Job 1 for 500e was last week). Moving to EMP, which was designed as a compromise between ICE and BEV, would be a backward step for EV products.
Also, the next generation of Small-Wide as used on Alfa Tonale looks likely to reach the same size range as Peugeot’s EMP2. (Personally, I predict that KM Cherokee will use Small-Wide v2, not Giorgio Global, for pricing reasons)
I didn't make that remark about legroom per se, I was using that as a comparison of not seeming to understand the needs of an American sedan.
So you put a blame on Auburn Hills team. They developed CUSW fork of Compact platform and all cars on CUSW which includes China bound Grand Commander.
On the other hand Small Wide is/was Italian affair.
Not sure if that't still on.
If that's the case they shouldnt bother bringing PSA branded Chryslers here.
Can you expand upon the trade-offs with packaging and vehicle design for BEV? For example, why would a next generation EMP Compass BEV be less efficient than a next generation small wide BEV?
I agree, RWD Cherokee sounds like a pipe dream.
It depends on base price. If it's at mid $30k it's more than doable.
Why should it be based on EMP2? AFAIK there is no mechanical AWD in PSA world and they don't plan to make it.
When we speak about EMP2 and Small Wide we can talk about current gen products. In that case AFAK Small Wide as is used by Compass has around 2" (5 cm) more from pedals to rear seat rest than 3008 II which is based on EMP2. 3008 II has around 3 cm longer wheelbase.
I don't see this been improved for the EMP2 v4 or what they now call eVMP platform. Geometry is usually carried over. What will change is availability of a BEV variant which will have batteries underneath the floor. It's happening in 2023.
For me this move is not unexpected. All car manufacturers which will use the same platform or starting point for ICE and BEV cars will end with this solution sooner or later.
I think the money would be better invested in making sure the space utilization and fuel economy meet customer expectations. We all know the extra off road capability/RWD platform would amount to just marketing for most consumers.
Yes I do. They were given that platform and other than the van they dropped the ball. The one vehicle built off it that should've been sold here isn't. China got it.
I mean that electrification was thought of when the platform was developed.. Where to place those sort of components(batteries especially).
FCA's current FWD/AWD platforms dates waaay back..
If you want a 4x4 Compass or Renegade in Europe today, it's as a hybrid with an electric rear axle.. 60hp and 250nm(instant). And a 1.3 GSE T4 with 130 or 180hp on the front axle. They've ditched the 9 speed ZF auto and is using their own 6 speed DCT instead.
It doesn't matter. They still have two very different platform versions. Totally different rear end with different metal sheets and more of it. All work for it was additional work in the same way when it's sort of afterthought solution. There is no difference.
They can make it with mechanical AWD if they want. PSA can't do it with AWD. That's the point.
No, they are not using DCT. It's a 6 speed Aisin.
Try to offer compact SUV in US which doesn't have mechanical AWD as an option. That's a suicide.
Somebody had better tell Toyota. Their plugin hybrids offer electric rear drive, but also some regular and non-hybrid models still offer mechanical AWD.
The Kia Soul is front drive only and still manages to survive here in the USA. Then again, it remains undefined as to whether it is a car or a crossover.