AF: AN: FCA small cars will switch to PSA architecture | Page 3 | Allpar Forums
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

AN: FCA small cars will switch to PSA architecture

Discussion in 'Mopar / FCA News' started by aldo90731, Aug 28, 2020.

Tags:
  1. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Messages:
    915
    Likes:
    968
    We might get our second BEV crossover, after Renegade, from PSA/Chrysler.
     
  2. Heine Pedersen

    Heine Pedersen Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes:
    75
    EMP 1 and EMP 2 are newly developed platforms that are strong and light, with electrification possibilities built in to the design. Wikipedia got a page for both.

    So it makes very good sense. I guess on the other hand, that gasolin engines in PSA 's line up in the future, will use FCA's GSE and GME units.
     
  3. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    No, platforms don't work that way. There is no platforms with "built-in" electrification possibilities.

    Here is the thing. You have ICE/MHEV platform subversion and you have PHEV and/or BEV subversion. BEV and PHEV subversions can be better or worse executed. It depends on where are batteries placed and how big batteries can be. Have they eaten trunk and/or fuel tank volume? In this respect both CMP and EMP2 are at very low evolutionary step, they are no better than for example FCA's Small Wide platform.

    What sucks with both CMP and EMP2 is packaging. They do not offer much combined leg room for a given wheelbase or car size. They are at the bottom in that regard.
     
    cygnus likes this.
  4. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3,329
    Likes:
    4,326
    If they intend to use those in the states, the legroom issues need fixed. We don't need another 200 boondoggle.
     
  5. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    AFAIK CUSW based 200 didn't have legroom issue. Headroom != legroom

    Actually it had more combined legroom than Sebring/200.
     
  6. valiant67

    valiant67 ...

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2003
    Messages:
    36,668
    Likes:
    19,408
    200 had legroom once inside. But entry/exit with long legs was problematic.
     
  7. KrisW

    KrisW Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes:
    4,701
    Third, as Compass is also getting a BEV version.

    FCA already has a clean-sheet BEV architecture for FWD vehicles in production (Job 1 for 500e was last week). Moving to EMP, which was designed as a compromise between ICE and BEV, would be a backward step for EV products.

    Also, the next generation of Small-Wide as used on Alfa Tonale looks likely to reach the same size range as Peugeot’s EMP2. (Personally, I predict that KM Cherokee will use Small-Wide v2, not Giorgio Global, for pricing reasons)
     
  8. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3,329
    Likes:
    4,326
    I didn't make that remark about legroom per se, I was using that as a comparison of not seeming to understand the needs of an American sedan.
     
  9. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    So you put a blame on Auburn Hills team. They developed CUSW fork of Compact platform and all cars on CUSW which includes China bound Grand Commander.

    On the other hand Small Wide is/was Italian affair.
     
    ScramFan likes this.
  10. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    Not sure if that't still on.
     
  11. cygnus

    cygnus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Messages:
    915
    Likes:
    968
    If that's the case they shouldnt bother bringing PSA branded Chryslers here.

    Can you expand upon the trade-offs with packaging and vehicle design for BEV? For example, why would a next generation EMP Compass BEV be less efficient than a next generation small wide BEV?
     
  12. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes:
    1,113
    I agree, RWD Cherokee sounds like a pipe dream.
     
  13. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    It depends on base price. If it's at mid $30k it's more than doable.
     
  14. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    Why should it be based on EMP2? AFAIK there is no mechanical AWD in PSA world and they don't plan to make it.

    When we speak about EMP2 and Small Wide we can talk about current gen products. In that case AFAK Small Wide as is used by Compass has around 2" (5 cm) more from pedals to rear seat rest than 3008 II which is based on EMP2. 3008 II has around 3 cm longer wheelbase.

    I don't see this been improved for the EMP2 v4 or what they now call eVMP platform. Geometry is usually carried over. What will change is availability of a BEV variant which will have batteries underneath the floor. It's happening in 2023.
    For me this move is not unexpected. All car manufacturers which will use the same platform or starting point for ICE and BEV cars will end with this solution sooner or later.
     
    cygnus likes this.
  15. serpens

    serpens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes:
    1,113
    I think the money would be better invested in making sure the space utilization and fuel economy meet customer expectations. We all know the extra off road capability/RWD platform would amount to just marketing for most consumers.
     
  16. Adventurer55

    Adventurer55 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    3,329
    Likes:
    4,326
    Yes I do. They were given that platform and other than the van they dropped the ball. The one vehicle built off it that should've been sold here isn't. China got it.
     
    jclick likes this.
  17. Heine Pedersen

    Heine Pedersen Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes:
    75
    I mean that electrification was thought of when the platform was developed.. Where to place those sort of components(batteries especially).
    FCA's current FWD/AWD platforms dates waaay back..
     
  18. Heine Pedersen

    Heine Pedersen Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    81
    Likes:
    75
    If you want a 4x4 Compass or Renegade in Europe today, it's as a hybrid with an electric rear axle.. 60hp and 250nm(instant). And a 1.3 GSE T4 with 130 or 180hp on the front axle. They've ditched the 9 speed ZF auto and is using their own 6 speed DCT instead.
     
    pumadog likes this.
  19. T_690

    T_690 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2015
    Messages:
    3,483
    Likes:
    4,560
    It doesn't matter. They still have two very different platform versions. Totally different rear end with different metal sheets and more of it. All work for it was additional work in the same way when it's sort of afterthought solution. There is no difference.

    They can make it with mechanical AWD if they want. PSA can't do it with AWD. That's the point.

    No, they are not using DCT. It's a 6 speed Aisin.

    Try to offer compact SUV in US which doesn't have mechanical AWD as an option. That's a suicide.
     
    tabutler likes this.
  20. patfromigh

    patfromigh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,549
    Likes:
    3,256
    Somebody had better tell Toyota. Their plugin hybrids offer electric rear drive, but also some regular and non-hybrid models still offer mechanical AWD.

    The Kia Soul is front drive only and still manages to survive here in the USA. Then again, it remains undefined as to whether it is a car or a crossover.
     

Share This Page

Loading...
 We are not affiliated with FCA. We make no claims regarding validity or accuracy of information or advice. Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.